Illarion.org

@Nitters the Stipper

Simple.

The average player might not have the wits to outsmart Albert Einstein when it comes to physics (Martin doesn't play ) but he does understand when he is being given a "bad deal".

I mean, if the idea behind the huge prices of NPCs is to take money out of game.. it's as upside down as it can possibly be. I always thought that it was to encourage PtP trade. Anyways. What will happen is, that players will not *buy* these expensive items if they will get away with it. If the item is "fun" or "time saving" item (read: Portal) then he will do without. I don't really understand whose idea the increase of price was, but personally that has resulted in far less portals being bought. While per unit, a lot more money is being taken out, the total amount is substantially less due to the lessening use.

What you need, is something that benefits the player. A fair trade. Something that you have a monopoly on and that is useful enough to justify the moderate amount of money they have to spend on it. What would be even more useful was, if it was 1.) Consumable under certain circumstances (not necessarily like a potion, but in way that requires the purchase of a new one or can be lost) 2.) That gives the using players a slight, continuous advantage and thus encourages others to buy it as well.

A horse.

Lrmy wrote:My richest character has about 50 silvers.

And what do you do with that money beside stacking it?

Considering that a (good) set of armor and weapons could cost something like that, he probably keeps it there "just in case".

Why do you keep money in bank instead of spending it all? So you have money if you need it.

my richest char has probably around 50 silvers.

Why do i have this amount? for emergencies.

Lets say i am fighting, unexpectidly my main armour breaks, and i will want to get another one as soon as possible. Other reasons also, like if a sudden gm appears selling something really rare.

I never really go above this amount because i do not need to.


Also, I bought a laptop for £1000.

I sold it to some dude after a couple of weeks for £700.

If this was illarion, the dude would have bought it for £10.

the problem is that crafters... doesn't really have any use of money except buying materials to make more items and practice.

Why not raise the limit of raw materials that can be bought? and more NPC that sells raw materials? Some of the crafters would be willing to buy those from NPC i guess. But the price... shouldn't be that low. So chars who gather resources can get some money to earn as well and the rich crafters who never uses their money will waste their money to NPC.

Although another problem might arise from doing this. The master crafters will sell their items base on the NPC material price (i hope not).

Just a thought.... *shrugs*

ogerawa wrote:the problem is that crafters... doesn't really have any use of money except buying materials to make more items and practice.

The best way to do that is to inconvene them...

My character is a smith. He can either go up the north mine (10 minutes walk), get around 45 coal at a time, then try to filter the iron ore from the massive amount of copper ore he gets from the trollsbane mine, or he can risk a 2 silver cow and all the ore beign stolen... Or he can pay 10 silvers and a bit a month to get it from Varshikar, or he can buy it.

In that respect, something like that is PERFECT.

My character usually buys the bulk of the ore.
-

It has to be remembered, that the more money there is running around, the more we have a tendancy to spend it on higher cost goods.

The argument that people will only keep the money in their depot, so sink the amount of money IG is wrong IMHO. If the most I've ever seen is 10 silvers, it'll take a lot for me to use them. If I trade in 20 silver armours and the like, I'll probably be rich within a few weeks, and can afford to buy my other stuff at high prices.

Can you give us a list of the richest people nitters? I'm just curious...

Nitram wrote:

Lrmy wrote:My richest character has about 50 silvers.

And what do you do with that money beside stacking it?

I spent 100 silvers on a depot for the orc cave the other day. Those 50 silvers will now likely go to an armory.

Arameh is what Nitram would consider a stacker.

He has 800 silvers in his depot, and he doesn't play anymore since ages.

Retlak wrote:Arameh is what Nitram would consider a stacker.

He has 800 silvers in his depot, and he doesn't play anymore since ages.

Yet I am sure Nitram uses Arameh as one of his examples.

I can only repeat myself: In order to make money leave the system, money sinks are mandatory. This includes services and items from NPCs as well. The teleporters were a good idea, even tough a share of the spend money remains ingame, funding the goverments.

So, when Nitram objects on more money entering the system, that's fighting fire with fire for me. He is right that money must not pile up without it having any use, but players want their characters to earn money, get rich and famous n' stuff. This is a game after all, not an economy simulation. I try to illustrate what I mean:



Nitram objects to increase arrow #8 for it would lead to a piling up of the money in the system. I, however, think that more money has to enter AND leave the system for the current economy is "broken". So, what I say: Measure A AND B have to be taken to make the game better. A alone and B alone won't help. But this must not be a reason not to do A or B!

The problem is: What to do and who does it?

Why do magic spells put goods into action? The food summoning spell kicks up the food bar now, it doesn't create any, so there is nothing that they give.

The diagram was created years ago. Since I don't play a mage due to the magic learning system, I was not aware of this undocumented change. Also, in future, other magic systems might create items

Why do magic spells put goods into action? The food summoning spell kicks up the food bar now, it doesn't create any, so there is nothing that they give.

right, it does not create food. but it reemplaces food. so, even if indirectly, i think, the effect on the economy is the same.

Well one example is this, you buy a mace for 550 silvers now, you can sell them for 10 copper...that is 1/55th of the buying price, that is a major difference. You should atleast get 30 to 40 percent for what you sell. The same thing with leggings they sell fro 9 silver, yet if you sell some to the npc you get 10 copper also I believe, maybe 15 not sure,...that is 1/90th of the price. Even more ridiculous.What needs to be done is since buying prices have gone up in npc stores and from people who craft, then what you get for selling things to npc's needs to go up so we can afford it. People are talking now that if you have like 10 silver that s a lot of money. You can not buy decent leather armor for 10 silver, never mind metal armor. Everyone is screwed with the way things are right now so I am all for Estralis raising the money IG, this is not real life this is a fantasy RPing game that is online. So I say vote Estralis, tell Nitram you want to be rich or atleast well off not super poor.

Just for clarification, 1/55th=1,8% and 1/90th=1,11%. You propose 30-40%.

Thank you so much for that I have been awake for about 2 days now and my brain wouldnt do math, I knew some know it all would eventually come by and correct me. I appreciate it. I couldn't even figure out how to make the calculator work I am so tired. thnx again.

The problem is this

If people are 'collecting' coins, then by starving new players (= potential buyers/sellers), it will NOT help the situation.

Instead it'll create a division, the older 'richer' players, and the new players who can't afford to buy anything since there is already 'too much money' in the system.

The best way to sink money, in my opinion is through housing. Housing needs to be made more 'useful', so there is a reason to fork out the insane amount of coins needed for anything.

Again, can someone post the top 5 richest people IG?

Again, can someone post the top 5 richest people IG?

i hope, they don't.
it would not help planning, but it might give OOC influence to gameplay.
the sums, the richest players have would be more than enough to know. (without names)

And the activity.

yes. to know with what profession one can earn a lot would be helpfull for planning too.

The total money ingame is around 12.000.000cp, so in average, one character has 370cp. Keep in mind that much of this copper is with unused characters (start up money), GMs (yeah, we're rich!), abandoned characters and some rich individuals.

Just for your information.

Doesn't seem that much to me, considering a cheap suit of metal armour costs around 10 silvers...

I think we can afford a bit more money...

I will create a statistic later how much money it at the currently active player characters. But this takes a while.

Nitram

You may also want to check who possesses all those gold coins - they make up a huge share of the total money (3.2 millions). I doubt many players have gold coins...

I know that Estralis

Active defined as online within the last 7 days
Active characters: 414
Goldcoins: 36
Silvercoins: 17114
Coppercoins: 107079
Total money ( in copper ): 2'178'479

Active defined as online within the last 14 days
Active characters: 494
Goldcoins: 37
Silvercoins: 19293
Coppercoins: 126095
Total money ( in copper ): 2'425'395

Active defined as online within the last 28 days
Active characters: 749
Goldcoins: 45
Silvercoins: 22458
Coppercoins: 194702
Total money ( in copper ): 2'890'502

Nitram

That works out as 52 silvers each on average..

However you forgot an important thing. Buildings...

Stiltaris logged in recently, she has TB money
Szrenszor has Zzyathis money as well
I don't know about other towns, but that adds up to a lot of money.

How about inactive chars? If a char isn't played in a certain length of time, say a month RL, for at least a couple of hours, should the char still be able to keep the copper (and is it possible to program that they loose it)?

Some games are programmed to where if a house is bought, it is repossessed after a char is inactive over a month. I agree, houses....some cheaper then others possibly depending on the town you would like to encourage movement into, would be a good way to bring money to the system.

((is the stockpiling of copper making the mechanics of the game suffer? hard on the server? Possibly even program after a certain amount, no more money can be stockpiled?))

Kaila Galathil wrote:How about inactive chars? If a char isn't played in a certain length of time, say a month RL, for at least a couple of hours, should the char still be able to keep the copper (and is it possible to program that they loose it)?

Some games are programmed to where if a house is bought, it is repossessed after a char is inactive over a month. I agree, houses....some cheaper then others possibly depending on the town you would like to encourage movement into, would be a good way to bring money to the system.

((is the stockpiling of copper making the mechanics of the game suffer? hard on the server? Possibly even program after a certain amount, no more money can be stockpiled?))

Hell no you are crazy simply put. I had problems so i could not play Illarion for about 8 months, but I came back and I used my copper just as much. Who are you to decide why someone should lose their copper because they have been inactive? I mean if you earned it you keep it.

Edit: Plus some people go on vacations for longer than that I mean seriously.

Kaila Galathil wrote:((is the stockpiling of copper making the mechanics of the game suffer? hard on the server? Possibly even program after a certain amount, no more money can be stockpiled?))

All its doing is giving wrong values when you calculate how much money is around IG...

Inactive chars make everyone seem richer...

Richard Cypher wrote:

Kaila Galathil wrote:How about inactive chars? If a char isn't played in a certain length of time, say a month RL, for at least a couple of hours, should the char still be able to keep the copper (and is it possible to program that they loose it)?

Some games are programmed to where if a house is bought, it is repossessed after a char is inactive over a month. I agree, houses....some cheaper then others possibly depending on the town you would like to encourage movement into, would be a good way to bring money to the system.

((is the stockpiling of copper making the mechanics of the game suffer? hard on the server? Possibly even program after a certain amount, no more money can be stockpiled?))

Hell no you are crazy simply put. I had problems so i could not play Illarion for about 8 months, but I came back and I used my copper just as much. Who are you to decide why someone should lose their copper because they have been inactive? I mean if you earned it you keep it.

Edit: Plus some people go on vacations for longer than that I mean seriously.

I realize this and know it would be a hardship on some chars especially with vacations etc. but if this would help the issue, I would be willing to loose mine. It could even be programed where some silver was still left, enough so the char would not be poor if/when returned. As it is now, it is very difficult for those that actually DO play on a regular basis.

All its doing is giving wrong values when you calculate how much money is around IG...

Inactive chars make everyone seem richer...

If this is the sole problem, why worry about adding more copper to the game?