Magic.

Gabon Corad · Post by **Gabon Corad** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:35 pm

no you didnt but you also at no point mentioned it would be for the special people eather

Samantha Meryadeles · Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:38 pm

In don't really like it, it is too complicated.

Also it means that every mage has to decide if he now is a better healer or if he let healing be and prefer being able to teleport to somewhere, or if he can cast some fire spell.
I dislike such desicions for charcreating and at the end you will never feel satisfied since you ever fear you made a wrong desicion. we already have different magic schools and the spells belonging to them. that should be enough. but that proposal, it just cuts the mages possibility even more.

i mean, why should a mage not be able to learn ever casting strong fire spells AND icespells, and use teleportation? with that pointsystem it would mean once he decided where he puts the points he cant ever become really good at the ones with low points anymore, even oif he later wishes to practice and train in those spells.

that cuts roleplaypossibilitys and also possibilitys to develope the character later ingame.

Also such a system would need a 100 % new magic system. new spells for every category, new spell effects, the balancing of the different categorys so that there are no real disadvantages for chosing "the wrong category" and so on.

Cassandra Fjurin · Post by **Cassandra Fjurin** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:38 pm

one thing. How can we handle the "I am a super meleemagican with double axes and super fighting demon power"

maybe you have again such a wonderfull idea. My idea is that we give some special powers to "fighters" only. And some special runes for "only mages" some special things which are unreachable for mixed chars.

Cassandra Fjurin · Post by **Cassandra Fjurin** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:39 pm

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:In don't really like it, it is too complicated.

Also it means that every mage has to decide if he now is a better healer or if he let healing be and prefer being able to teleport to somewhere, or if he can cast some fire spell.
I dislike such desicions for charcreating and at the end you will never feel satisfied since you ever fear you made a wrong desicion. we already have different magic schools and the spells belonging to them. that should be enough. but that proposal, it just cuts the mages possibility even more

OH ROFL no it cuts you in your possibilities that is the only problem you worrie about currently.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:40 pm

Whats the pint of making a complicated system like this if everyone doesn't have access to magic? and of course there's thinking about how this system will effect player that don't have super mages. How stats will play a roll in the power and effect of various spells, and how to finally make it fair for us halfers. and of course creating enough spells in each catagory to compensate for the diverging magic types.

If all this can be figured out then sure, have at it

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:44 pm

Cassandra Fjurin wrote:
Samantha Meryadeles wrote:In don't really like it, it is too complicated.

Also it means that every mage has to decide if he now is a better healer or if he let healing be and prefer being able to teleport to somewhere, or if he can cast some fire spell.
I dislike such desicions for charcreating and at the end you will never feel satisfied since you ever fear you made a wrong desicion. we already have different magic schools and the spells belonging to them. that should be enough. but that proposal, it just cuts the mages possibility even more
OH ROFL no it cuts you in your possibilities that is the only problem you worrie about currently.

Actually I agree with Patric here. What happens when I want to play a mage and not a Watermage. People can specialise through RP. I dislike any technical system that forces players to take a specific route.

Samantha Meryadeles · Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:46 pm

it is a terrible thought...we already had the problems of "god...where put i now my points in attributes? have i made a good choice". and now we should also add "have i gave my char the right attributes? do they suck now with the categorys i chosed? are they good? what do i do if i find later out ingame that they doesnt fit me and myx char really?"

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:47 pm

Gabon Corad wrote:no you didnt but you also at no point mentioned it would be for the special people eather

Well I just assumed that'd be obvious

But anyway, I wouldn't mind people getting magic with this system anyway because there are so many flaws. Really a mage is only at his optimum with the aid of other mages

. It would encourage people to work together.

And then, over time you'd get stronger. And extremists would get liberties. E.g. if you put 18 int, 18 ess and 19 will, put all your points into necromancy and put all your points into undead, gradually as you get better and better, you'll be able to summon a demon at the expense of a full bar's worth of mana

. But then monsters could be given elements. So maybe a demon would be fire, or evil. Then a powerful light elementalist would be able to save the town by defeating it

Then, say a full point elementalist all-area mage is around, he could tackle different mages by examining their aura to see their element and casting the appropriate spells, however any strong specialising mage would probably be able to take him down if he isn't taken down first, if you see

Grivijak · Post by **Grivijak** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:47 pm

If you want a mage that can do everything, just make him do everything... Put points on everything.

Samantha Meryadeles · Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:50 pm

And how do i know how much points i have to put in what do be able to do spells i wish to do later? "is 3 or 4 enough to get later strong healing? or will i have just a weak healing healing as good as no hp and losing through that the chance to be better at an other category?"

And william, the example you made is terrible...that means the necromancer will ever be fucked since there will be that other mage destroying easily all his creatures and the necromancer will have no other choices or possibilitys left.

specialisation means boresome and less variety and choices later

sorry, but your proposal would do everything unneded complicated, difficult and limited. not mentioning the massive work to be done to have all that scripted, balanced and working fine at the end

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:00 pm

The biggest issue by far is still balance.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:03 pm

The problem i see is..

necromancers summoning trolls? O_o

NECRO mancy
^
To do with the dead

Unless its a dead troll, he won't be summoning it.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:22 pm

Alright, summoner then. You know perfectly well what I mean regardless, Adrian.

@Patric: I personally think your problem is that Samantha pwns now and you wouldn't like it if she wasn't all omnipotent anymore. But anyhow, just the fact that she has her archmage ring means you personally won't have to worry about what areas you put your stats in, as you'll continue to be powerful in all of them anyhow.

Also, fine, maybe he can summon 3 demons or something. But anyhow, although he would only be able to summon 1 demon with a mana bar, think how many normal skeletons he could summon. If he had just 1 mana potion, he could summon a bunch of skeletons around the light mage to stop him, then summon the demon on the other mages, this is assuming there are even mages in the shop to help him; and somehow I doubt there will be a lot of people who put all their stats into light elemental magic. I assume most will stick with standard fire water ice, or maybe if they're playing a dark character might put a mix of dark and necromancy. You see what I'm getting at, everyone from the supremely powerful necromancer who can be kill half the town, yet be stopped by a half decent light mage; from the weak healer elemented to light, who dark forces find hard to defeat simply because of her element and powers of restoration; have their strengths and weaknesses. Noone is excepted, except maybe pushed quest chars and Samantha (with the archmage ring).

Mages would team up and help each other in combinations to overcome their enemies.

And: if the fighters think it's BS that there's a type of mage to pwn everything, they could have magic armour and weapons. E.g. you could have:

Firesword, iceblade, Drow blade, Rainbowsword, Wind sword, Earth sword, waterblade.

Fire arrows, ice arrows, wind arrows, earth arrows, light arrows, dark arrow, water arrows.

Red magic armour, White magic armour, Black magic armour, Yellow magic armour, Green magic armour, Brown magic armour, Blue magic
armour, magic armour (normal magic armour would protect from all types of magic, but to a lesser extent).

Same applies to shield, then like hammers or maces or something, so everyone could stand a chance. But only people with high essence could read auras, so a fighter couldn't immediately spot what type of mage they were and equip accordingly until spells are cast.

Then mages could work with fighters, enchanting weapons and casting shielding spells. Reading an enemy's aura and quietly telling the fighter how to prepare for a possible attack, and such things.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:30 pm

AlexRose wrote:But anyhow, just the fact that she has her archmage ring means you personally won't have to worry about what areas you put your stats in, as you'll continue to be powerful in all of them anyhow.

apparently you know nothing about the Archmage ring if your willing to say something like that. AND Samantha doesn't have it anymore. as to your Summoner that means also scripting several new types of creatures that don't turn around and pwn there summoners as well.

this system you purpose is failing in the point that everytime you come under question you solve the problem by making the system more complicated. what we need is a balanced system thats far less complax then this one your purpose.

but overall it sounds like good ideas.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:32 pm

I think its unfair and false to justify your argument by claiming we are only worried about not being "uber" anymore.

This is....just too complicated I dont even know where to start.

Its not even worth debating a system like this because the amount of work it would need it completely out of the scope of illarion at the moment.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:34 pm

Archmage ring is going to be returned in a quest, and it gives boost to every skill as far as I've been told.

And plus, summoner can summon his creature at the other side of the room and run away quickly

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:37 pm

You still fail to resolve the issue of complexity and balance.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:37 pm

a boost true but that wouldn't make up for what your purposing. as far as ive seen, it's helpful but you'll still need a measure of skill to back it up.

and i agree with Nalzaxx, way to complicated and way to many holes it the system.

Samantha Meryadeles · Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:46 pm

Archmagering gots lowered in its boost. it now makes your spells maybe 5-10 skill % stronger, not more. means with 60 % skill and archmagering you cast like you got 65-70%

also i know of no quest to return it.

the biggest problem i see is:

who is gonna to script that all, William? Your proposal is a chunk of complicated and massive script. They hasve not even time to repair the current script we got, and you want them to write a completly new one, far more complicated then everything we got now? The current script for magic is far more easy than the one we would need for your proposals. But it gots it bugs and needs to be redone.

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:09 am

I think a large problem is that teachers can only take three apprentices at a time. This could be fixed easily and it would mean that good applicants would not be turned away. It should be up to the teachers to decide how many they have, after all, it is their responsibility to decide who learns magic, so why not make that responsibility further?

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:14 am

no thats a minimum

Samantha Meryadeles · Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:15 am

You mean maximum

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:16 am

Magic Academy Guild Thread wrote:STUDENTS
Each teacher may have up to 3 Students he is free to choose.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:19 am

ahh my mistake, still three at a time isn't so bad. might be good to set an actual time when we could accept new students. perhaps after your first three reach the Adept level...

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:23 am

AlexRose wrote:Archmage ring is going to be returned in a quest[...]

ROFL! Samantha may dream about it, but that's the only thing that she can do

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:24 am

The thing with limiting the number of students is that, if they 'fail' to find a teacher the first time, they must then wait another half a year without exception with nothing to do at all. Perhaps at least it should be allowed that you can teach theory to other students, so you can keep a conveyor belt of second tier characters to teach runes to, once the first group are done with.

Samantha Meryadeles · Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:29 am

Athian...read the rules for teaching again.

You are not allowed to take new students before not your first three got all their runes and FINISHED their apprenticeship by you. you can just take new students when you released all other students you got.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:33 am

i'll have to reread that. because (and no offense) that sentence was perhaps the most confusing thing i've seen all day..

not your fault though. go language barrier.

p.s.

i'd have read them better the first time if I'd actually been able to teach instead of spending weeks trying to get a fair system change for teaching

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:41 am

He said, you can only accept new students when your previous three have ALL the runes.

Sordelka · Post by **Sordelka** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:54 am

I might add something to the discussion...
Since when magic came to be sorted into elements anyways...
Like common people, magic is magic, that defines it. Not like if I can better shoot a fire ball or an ice bolt, which is pretty much the same thing, just the structure of the substance changes. But Illarion should not limit people in their choices. Mages must not choose elements!