the 'suggested' classses

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

why is the perception good for a knight? ://

[Mr. Cromwell]

Don't know a damn, but hitting/crit chances?

[Grivijak]

Avalyon, after my Orcs attributes, you should know why perception is good for a knight

[Athian]

yup, hitting and critical rates. from what has been inferred perception plays a part in melee combat. though our secretive Dev's probably won't confirm anything, with begging and boot licking possibly some sort of bribe as well, since it's generally one of the four stats that effect weapon based comabt it's better to have some then none at all. itfor a warrior either way i feel it would be far more important then any of the magic based stats.

[Grivijak]

Accuracy, Critical percentage, Parry percentage slightly, possibly damage taken and Damage dealt.

As far as i have found.

[Athian]

since the server is dead i'll just keep screwing around wih these.

old barbarian

STR: 18
CON: 18
DEX: 7
AGI: 13
INT: 4
WIL: 11
PER: 8
ESS: 5

revised Barbarian

STR: 18
CON: 16
DEX: 12
AGI: 13
INT: 4
WIL: 5
PER: 12
ESS: 4

figured since barbarians are general just face eatting swordmongers they would have the least magical defense of all warrior classes. but this arrangment seems a bit iffy to me, and im not sure why.

[Korm Kormsen]

what is a barbarian? - a stupid? or an uneducated person?
i tend to the second option.
and barbarians are primitive. so less apt in crafting.

STR: 18
CON: 16
DEX: 12
AGI: 13
INT: 4
WIL: 5
PER: 12
ESS: 4

more to my taste for a "typical" barbarian:

STR: 18
CON: 16
DEX: 8
AGI: 13
INT: 8
WIL: 5
PER: 12
ESS: 4

[Grivijak]

Barbarians are generally dumb berserkers.

dex is a fighting attribute.

[Athian]

yup dexterity is a fighting Attribute as well as a crafting one. alot of stats have dual pirposes now.

[Korm Kormsen]

oh! i did not know that. i thought it was just for crafting.

but if Barbarians are generally dumb berserkers, and have so low int. they never will become dangerous berserkers...

let me voice a far fetched idea...

seeing all the different stats, i thought, that may be two seperate attributes for learning could be helpfull.

the same factor (Int.) being responsible for advancing in reading, magery, planting trees or fighting might be a bit concentrated...

[Athian]

that would be good, as phyiscal attributes need little intelligence to train, but phyiscial skills at this moment already go up far far faster then magic system skills. i'm not sure exactly the rate intelligence actually effects them, we'd have to ask a Dev i guess.

[Llama]

STR: 18
CON: 18
DEX: 12
AGI: 16
INT: 4
WIL: 5
PER: 9
ESS: 4

I reduced Perception

IMHO, a barbarian wouldn't want crit hits, but i see him goign into a rage, not seeing and swinging widly, ripping them apart instead of doign things carefully

[Korm Kormsen]

i found out, that otherwise similar chars learn slower to cut treees effectively with lower Int.

---

a historical berserker did not dodge or parry well, but landed a lot of critical hits.

[Llama]

i found out, that otherwise similar chars learn slower to cut treees effectively with lower Int.

---

a historical berserker did not dodge or parry well, but landed a lot of critical hits.

Explain to me how a person in a rage is capable of seeing things and working things out? "His shield's up there, let me stab him in the weak spot"

as opposed to "blood...blood...blood *swings*"

[Korm Kormsen]

no, you won't draw me in one of your endless and senseless discussions.

[Gro'bul]

Why don't we just make a big list of skills and things and say which attributes effect them? People don't have enough points to make a master of everything. Solves much of the frustration in my opinion.

[Llama]

no, you won't draw me in one of your endless and senseless discussions.

*sighs* I was just making my point.

Sheeeeeesh

Go get drunk and see whether you'll land any critical hits on your opponent, as opposed to just swinging around widely

[Miru]

I would adjust the crafter a small bit, drop Intel down to the "average" of 10 bump Strength up by 2, everything else seems a one point shuffle... but I am just throwing in my two coppers..... (smiles)
I am near that and it seems fine even if for some reason I am playing short one point short.(83)...(no not a brick short of a load...maybe half a brick)

Miru

[Athian]

Why don't we just make a big list of skills and things and say which attributes effect them? People don't have enough points to make a master of everything. Solves much of the frustration in my opinion.

generally because newbie players don't really have any experience with any skills. IMO it would lead a large amount of ooc questions and even more ooc information begging topics like 'teach me how to smith'

[Gro'bul]

generally because newbie players don't really have any experience with any skills. IMO it would lead a large amount of ooc questions and even more ooc information begging topics like 'teach me how to smith'

We would keep predone classes, but a list of what each thing do to make sense of it seems logical to me. We don't have begging topics now, I don't see why this would change at any point no matter what it was. Since we don't have any professional glassblowers/blacksmiths/carpenters to draw on for attributes, the attributes attributed to these skills could make no sense from person to person. I think you can be alot more comfortable and less likely to be frustrated when you know whats going on, rather than investing alot of work into a char is completely unable to do what you wanted.

[Athian]

well that sounds fine. but updating the archetypes was my intial purpose., so i'll continue on that end, if you want to take on the task of skill description and organization then by all means no one here is going to stop you. but it means there's one more job to do . but getting the information again is the hard part.

and i'm sure i could link enough 'tell me how to' topic to this forum to fill a page or two

[maryday]

((Knight-Archetype;PER11,INT9))

I can't think of a name for a half bard?, half fighter guy...

Battle Harlekin! (one point left?);

-Scavenger;
STR: 7
CON: 7
DEX: 15
AGI: 16
INT: 10
WIL: 7
PER: 11
ESS: 11

-Witchchild;
STR: 6
CON: 6
DEX: 15
AGI: 17
INT: 12
WIL: 6:twisted:
PER: 11
ESS: 11

((IMHOthe bard is the guy with the red nose, and the trumpet; the harlekin the one with no voice, one eye crying and one laughing.))

[Athian]

um....what the @#$% are you talking about?

[Kevin Lightdot]

Paladin=Half priest, half fighter
Ranger=Half druid, half fighter
Battlemage=Half mage, half fighter

I can't think of a name for a half bard, half fighter guy...

afaik, the persons who care about priest magic are Aragon, Vilarion and Cliu.

mind you i play probably the closest thing to a half mage half fighter right now. and i can tell you one thing for certain. halfer characters will forever be screwed. at least one skill of my magic is on even par skill wise with other mages, this plus boosting items (wands robes etc) and i can expect that even a mummy can (and has deflected) my spells, lets not even talk about scorpions. i improve at a rate that could be considered laughable and i fail spells at least 4/10 times. thats IF i can do them at all.

theres no such thing as a half character in this game. you can't be a decent fighter + (insert magic system of choice). you can only be a sub par fighter and a horrible magic user.

thats why i expect those classes to be exactly the same. if they aren't then it's just completely unfair

/Signed

Balanced characters arn't worth shit anymore. >.>

[Grant]

It's all in the stats. Show them, Athian?

[Athian]

Paladin=Half priest, half fighter
Ranger=Half druid, half fighter
Battlemage=Half mage, half fighter

I can't think of a name for a half bard, half fighter guy...

afaik, the persons who care about priest magic are Aragon, Vilarion and Cliu.

mind you i play probably the closest thing to a half mage half fighter right now. and i can tell you one thing for certain. halfer characters will forever be screwed. at least one skill of my magic is on even par skill wise with other mages, this plus boosting items (wands robes etc) and i can expect that even a mummy can (and has deflected) my spells, lets not even talk about scorpions. i improve at a rate that could be considered laughable and i fail spells at least 4/10 times. thats IF i can do them at all.

theres no such thing as a half character in this game. you can't be a decent fighter + (insert magic system of choice). you can only be a sub par fighter and a horrible magic user.

thats why i expect those classes to be exactly the same. if they aren't then it's just completely unfair

/Signed

Balanced characters arn't worth shit anymore. >.>

all in the stats you say? well id say all in the system

as for the mage magic system here's the general issue.

battlemage/warlock characters aren't going to be super powerful in magic like mages, but they could be formidable to either a mage or a fighter if you play it right. however the major problem is this.

Battlemage

STR: 9
CON: 10
DEX: 10
AGI: 8
INT: 14
WIL: 12
PER: 8
ESS: 13

now with these stats we have a character whom could be decent at magic but can not fight AT all. why you ask? well aside from super bad fighting stat. he also gets the worst armor in game leathers. now that isn't soo bad with high skills. maybe you could live through two skeletions at once if your lucky, after all you've got your magic to back you up....well thats not cpmpletely right

all armor. all of it, effects your magic casting ability. now if you were a super mage and you put on some leather armor hardly any effect right. of course you would still be completely useless in any melee combat anyway. but if your a halfer and you put on some leather armor and carry a decent weapon your boned. at higher skills you'll get the spell you want every so often, at severly reduced power and much more mana use. as i said you can expect.

generally i'd tell anyone not to put a fighting stat under 9 for a battlemage after all they are half characters so no stat you have should be below the considered middled level. but the more fighting capabiility you have the more the systems limit you. a normal fighter with 10-12's in fighting and high skills is actually quite capable of handling themselves just fine. anyone who's walked the crypts with me can agree. of course you have your limits, but for batlemages they should be able to overcome that limit by use of there magic. however the way things are now, we're forcefully given a choice of one or the other. never both, players playing these characters have already accepted the penalities that come with there stats. knowing thats they'll never be able to melee with super monsters or go spell for spell with master mages, the only glimmer of hope they had was to be able to mix there combat and despite there stats be a strong character. sorry kids thats not really possible... if the other magic systems follow this same trend then all mixed classes will become bitterly useless. we'll have to wait and see.

okay rant over. feeling slightly better.

[Cliu Beothach]

Half classes always have been difficult to play, and I feel they were meant for a reason not to use their abilities at the same time, but to exploit the fact that they have 2 abilities. Now, they may not have the same potential but they have much versatillity. They aren't to be used as a formidable stand alone character, but a strong point in a group.

They have a buffer between each ability, but still they have both abilities. It is this which is to be used as the advantage, not to use at the same time. The deal with battle mages, is "mage" magic is offensive, and often times more active, while the other magics are geared toward more passive effects. Battle mages would seem pretty useless, alone (and sometimes in a group), but this is because you are merging two offensive skills. Its a bit redundant, but not useless.

[Nalzaxx]

Correct me if I'm wrong Athian, but I always assumed Warlocks were designed to be solo characters. Using two skills to complement themselves, and therefore not having to rely on other people.

[Cliu Beothach]

Did you mean Cliu (if not sorry, no time to reread, I have to head to class)? Either way, I hardly see how the two skills "compliment" each other. I see it as just being redundant. Its not necessarily a bad thing but just going to be used in the way other half classes compliment each other.

[Athian]

i disagree completely on the matter, lets try a scanario.

lets say with your style of play your deugoning in the crypts with some friends as a battlemage, in order to be useful you must 'switch' between classes. this requires you, if you are wearing any armor or weapons. to take all these items off, and switch to all your magic based items. meaning you have to stop whatever your doing mid battle and change. now mind you you can't just change gear, as items in your bag will still effect you, you must now hand off your bag to a hopefully trustworthy person. and on the off chance that a sudden situation arises where they need melee back up you must reverse the whole process.

now at any given time between these two skills, you must deal with the fact that if you fail to be useful with melee combat you must stop and switch back to a mage configuration or vise versa. while you may have two skills both skills are much much weakers then those of the full blooded classes. which means even when you do which between either of them your character will only be fighting at half strenght of that ability, which may not be enough, but perhaps if you could use them in conjunction then you might be formidable enough for people to actually want to be around you in that situation.

while what you say may seem okay. try playing the character before making any solid conclusions. in the way you dscribe the character is even weaker and more useless. if thats how the classes were meant to be they should have come with a disclaimer.