Illarion.org

Hey I didnt do anything!

Arameh wrote:Hey I didnt do anything!

No, but you do seem to be drawn magnetically to all threads dealing with magic so that you can talk about how unfair it is towards fighters or some other argument like that. Then Patric comes in and talks about how hard it is to be a mage. Then various other people come in and join the never ending battles. I usually just think sarcastic comments to myself at home, and rarely post since I hate debating and completely suck at it.

either samantha or arameh will say some asshole comment in a topic, and then the other will come back with another asshole comment in that topic, and then a flame war is started. And it is almost always those two that will start and then kindle the flame wars on this forum.

Why do you bother quoting the person right above you and not adding anything?

Because he asked someone to show him a post that wasn't flaming Patric that he had posted in the last 4 months. That was not flaming Patric so I quoted. Someone with common sence could see that instead of asking me.

Actually i was ontopic before Lrmy came and made a useless post without any value, and than Arameh came and joined that, giving his comment for which he wasnt asked, a comment which was aswell offtopic. And of course Retlak has to join with a spam post, with had even less value for the topic than Lrmys and Aramehs. And of course Gildon has to write aswell, having none value with his post, even for the offtopic discussion in the thread, and the meaning behind was just to attack me and write any stupid comment together with those of the others of the "clique"

Also this thread has few reason to be since it is something that should have been posted in the "magic discussion thread". That thread got opened so that there wont be a dozen different threads discussing magic. I hope future topics concerning magic will again be posted in the "magic discussion" thread.

So maybe we should stop now all and Grant moves with the topic and idea to the "magic discussion" thread where it belongs.

There is no point in discussing the magic system if we do not agree what goal we want to reach. Do we want magic and melee combat to be as powerfull? Then we obviously have to downadjust magic. Do we want magic to be powerfull compared to melee? Then it seems to be a good systme we have now, and then it is obviously no point in saying magic is unfair to fighters, cause it is... We have to come to some agreements, before we start discussing, cause as it is now, we are just wasting presious Illa time;)

in all the games i played, i did not play mages. (not my thing)
in nearly every good fantasy world real good mages are very seldom. and very powerfull.

if we had 1 real mage for 50 fighters and 100 crafters/normal persons, it would be a fine relation.

what have we got?
i think about one mage for every two fighters. and very few nonfighting chars.

whilst every joe jack and fritz can become a mage, they should not be powerfull.

let everybody, who wants, play an illusionist, or a county-fair wizzard. but make becoming a real mage so difficult and boring, that we have only one or two white and black mages each at any given time.
and let those selected few be really powerfull. - and rich for that.
(it is a joke, that a powerfull mage has to manage a hotel, to make a living)

how to change in that direction? - i haven't got the slightest idea.

korm

ps: and let mages live in wizzardtowers, not in hotels or castles...

I agree on every single point.

Other games handle the amount of mages in the way, that the characters need a "mage flag" to even learn magic.

And those "mage flags" are only given out to a certin amount of players.

Say 1% of the current active characters are allowed to get the mage flag.

I just calculated 1510 active Characters within the last 28 days. So we would have 15 mage characters.

Nitram

(it is a joke, that a powerfull mage has to manage a hotel, to make a living)

well...not exactly...the seahorse inn made as good as no profit. she became rich through trading ^_^. But yes...either your mage does a trade...or you have a magic beggar who cant even pay for his own clothes *sighs*


@nitram

WOW...we...we had so many different characters ingame in the last 28 days? and how many of those were chars playing for just one or two days and than never again?

i mean...that would be 300-1500 players...where are all those? o_O

I mean...we had 1500 characters ig, but the average number of chars ig at the same time is 30. and if a player is trusted enough, and if his roleplay is good enough, to get a mage flag...than he would be a player who plays often, and who is regulary ig. means of those 15 mages 8-10 would be really often ingame, together with 30 other characters.

currently we have already 10 % mages ig. when there are 30-40 chars ig there are often 3-4 of them who can cast magic.

Mages(with more than just illusion spells) we got:

Silas Farron
Meriel Pelith
Damien
Nalcaryos von Weißhafen
Sideon Vilarion
Samantha Meryadeles
Athian
Avalyon el'Hattar
Duchan an Infarion
Jeremy Willowbrook

well...not exactly...the seahorse inn made as good as no profit. she became rich through trading ^_^. But yes...either your mage does a trade...or you have a magic beggar who cant even pay for his own clothes *sighs*

well, dear PO samantha, i was not attacking your char, i was pointing out, that a (powerfull) mage should be rich enough, not to have his dignity dented, by having to do mundane tasks.

edit:

real mages should be misterious, feared, unreachable for joe and jack.
"sir, pay me three copper for the room, and two for the breakfeast"
does not fit in such a concept.

Grant knows spells as well, Samantha. And your avatar looks like a medevial porno painting or something.

hadrian, grant,

my cordial thanks for ruining my try, to come back on topic.

Korm Kormsen wrote:

well...not exactly...the seahorse inn made as good as no profit. she became rich through trading ^_^. But yes...either your mage does a trade...or you have a magic beggar who cant even pay for his own clothes *sighs*

well, dear PO samantha, i was not attacking your char, i was pointing out, that a (powerfull) mage should be rich enough, not to have his dignity dented, by having to do mundane tasks.

edit:

real mages should be misterious, feared, unreachable for joe and jack.
"sir, pay me three copper for the room, and two for the breakfeast"
does not fit in such a concept.

I see a problem with your description. You are stereotyping. There are more kinds of mages, not just the kind you are describing. I think it is rather unfair to push chars with spells in such a direction by default, because it is just untrue.

But that is pretty much how you get when you have a lot of power. There should be at least some rules. It is like, with all the blackhaired elves ingame, that is soon the average color, and not blond. Or all the prety chars ingame, they are no longer good looking, just average looking. Or all the nobles, soon 10% or so are noble..

Well, Nitram, I agree, but not any near that many are often avtive, and those mages Samantha desribes, are very often online. And then you are not counting all the new players who want to become mages. I still think it is to many mages regulary playing, for it to be justified that it is powerfull, and that is at least how I would like magic to be. Maybe there should be like 5 powerfull mages ingame? Playing regulary? And as Korm proposed, maybe some "county wizards and illusionists". To achieve this, one needs two roads of magic. One higher and one lower path. This allso means one hell of a lot more work for Nitram, who is allready working his ass of for us, and that is not fair, so maybe the country wizards are not achievable. Then let us at least achieve the goal of a few strong mages. (I can not imagine that all those who wish to play mages can not imagine to play anything else.) This does not have to mean that "we" have to delete the mages we allready have, but it means not "making" new ones in a while. Soon most will have left the game, or at least with time.

PLease, if you are giong to reply on this post, do not find one weak link, and comment it. Comment the full post. Cause if you do comment one weak link, that will be what we discuss, and yet again, we get nowhere.

Well, I only really have one thing to give a quick comment to:

I'm quite sure most of the mage apprentices will drop out, or such.
And most of those mages don't play *that* regularly either really.
Aswell as there are time zones, some only play at american times, some at german ones, ect.

True, but most show up during quests and big battles, and having 15 powerfull mages runing around during a battle is to much.

I dunno, hardly been at those lately so I'm out.

I wonder what the rp reason for limiting the number if mages is?
I also think that Korm meant purely rp'ed illusionists.
And you think the current number mages are not powerful? You are wrong then, just one mage makes a huge difference to the mass battle events.

Rp reason? Magic is a gift, not all have it. What is the rp reason that there are very few mages in LOTR for example? Or any other fantasy book.

Skaalib Drurr wrote:I wonder what the rp reason for limiting the number if mages is?
I also think that Korm meant purely rp'ed illusionists.
And you think the current number mages are not powerful? You are wrong then, just one mage makes a huge difference to the mass battle events.

But in a while both sides will gain mages.
And spells can still backfire.

Cuthalion wrote:Rp reason? Magic is a gift, not all have it. What is the rp reason that there are very few mages in LOTR for example? Or any other fantasy book.

What I meant was, what do you say to a student who wants to be a mage, but cannot, because there are too many mages already?
If you were to say "It is a gift, you dont have it", then when a mage would quit, what do you say when they are then accepted. "Oh I was wrong, you do have the gift", perhaps?

no, skaalib.
you let them become "mages", county fair mages. with some basic and harmless spells. let them roleplay the haughty mage all the way.
but if they want something with power, start the selection.
(they are currently implementing some mages as teachers)
there is simply one need. - the teacher should not be able, to give a rune a day.
let there be books, for different spells or runes. when the pupil has completly swirlied the book, he has to have some more RPed sessions with the teacher, to get a rune.
nothing, that is very different from now.
just, if mages want to be really powerfull, let them suffer enough, to achieve it.

in every fantasy world, the mages are old to very old. even if they look young.
we don't need no instant-mages. no sir!

edit:

and, PO samantha, a mage of the power, that samantha holds, in RF (real fantasy) would study, to get even more powerfull, s/he would not clean chamberpots in an inn. (if it pays or not)

korm

Cuthalion wrote:and having 15 powerfull mages runing around during a battle is to much.

Uhm, how do you make this sound like I mean it is not powerfull?
It is ment as the oposite you see...

Having created a mage character over a year ago, but lacking any particular connections to the people distributing magic, I can say with certainty that not every 'Joe, Jack, and Fritz' is ever going to be able to get runes for their character.

I'd even go so far as to say that the claim that magic was remotely accesible to the average player is bull shit.