Dear former colleagues

Liles · Post by **Liles** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:26 pm

I understand fine Patty, but i'd rather you plucked up the balls to say that you were wrong.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:27 pm

liles,

please define "most players".

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:28 pm

He cant, he even cant make a list of that "majority" of players who are against that bann.

Liles · Post by **Liles** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:29 pm

For smile sack Patty, make one that are for the ban and i'll return the favour.

And korm, Oxford dicitonary describe 'most players' as

The players that are right

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:31 pm

Illarion falls deeper into the mire......
People seem to be losing perspective on things. After the return from my holiday, I regained some of that perspective. Illarion is a game, and games should be fun. And I see no fun in the events of the last few days. And people who constantly moan and bitch, just grow up and look at yourselves. Grown men and women some of you, whining and arguing over an internet game. It is pathetic really.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

liles,

And korm, Oxford dicitonary describe 'most players' as

Zitat:
The players that are right

two options:
1. we ban oxford dictionary for being inaccurate.
2. you err. - because most players don't feel it necessary to write something about the theme at hand, most players aparently don't give a shit about POStephen being banned or not.

i think, here you "auto-pwned" yourself...

korm

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:42 pm

Liles, i dont have to make a list for those who are for the ban. it is not for the ban, and against it. it is those who doesnt care for him to be banned(aka those who accept his ban), and those who doesnt want it.

And those who doesnt care are 40 upwards. while your list comes up to 10, maybe!

are you not able to see why there is no sense for ME to make a list?

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:45 pm

patrik,

ehem...
do you think, that i need a translator? or why do you repeat my statements?

(afk for half an hour)

Liles · Post by **Liles** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:47 pm

Fine, a list, for I don't know all the PO's, I might double check some.

Myself
Aegohl
Korwin
Retlak
Gildon
Sam (Stephen)
Lrmy
PO Arameh
Grant
Achae Eanstray
Devrah Liioness (Not sure)
Aeggie (Not sure)
Hu'greu
Gro'bul (Not sure)
Poots
Alli Zelos
swish1
Matholamew Dunsinane
Dónal Mason
Skaalib

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:51 pm

And now please mention those of the list who actually play and are active as players and who are not banned currently

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:53 pm

Liles, you can add your friendly neighbourhood lizard PO to the list.

Liles · Post by **Liles** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:00 pm

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:And now please mention those of the list who actually play and are active as players and who are not banned currently

They are members of the community, Patric, just because I accually made a list and made a large list, you don't have to keep trying to make it seem asif i'm the only on protesting a perma ban

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:01 pm

Liles wrote:Fine, a list, for I don't know all the PO's, I might double check some.

Myself
Aegohl
Korwin
Retlak
Gildon
Sam (Stephen)
Lrmy
PO Arameh
Grant
Achae Eanstray
Devrah Liioness (Not sure)
Aeggie (Not sure)
Hu'greu
Gro'bul (Not sure)
Poots
Alli Zelos
swish1
Matholamew Dunsinane
Dónal Mason
Skaalib

What's a sam?

Markous · Post by **Markous** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:03 pm

Markous wrote:If this topic starts to become full of shit as the other one, I will lock it, too.

This is my last warning. If it's necessary to ban some of you for constant spamming, it will be done, too.

Liles · Post by **Liles** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:06 pm

That is addressed to?

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:11 pm

liles,

so, discounting those three, i know as not being playing, and sam himself, even including your "not sure" group and a friendly lizzard neighbour, it would be 17.

if there would be a vote that would be not even near of being enough.
and it is definitely not most players fom 50 or more.

korm

Liles · Post by **Liles** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:13 pm

Most players that care to put input.

Now make a list of who supports the ban

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:23 pm

Liles wrote:Fine, a list, for I don't know all the PO's, I might double check some.

Myself
Aegohl - You've put him twice
Korwin
Retlak
Gildon
Sam (Stephen)
Lrmy
PO Arameh
Grant
Achae Eanstray
Devrah Liioness (Not sure) - Completely inactive
Aeggie (Not sure)
Hu'greu
Gro'bul (Not sure)
Poots - Inactive
Alli Zelos
swish1 - Inactive
Matholamew Dunsinane - Who is he? How long has he played? Is his opinion worth anything yet? You can't just gather noobs together.
Dónal Mason
Skaalib

Okay I edited the list for Patric.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:26 pm

Not to be rude, but... who cares? The *staff* voted, the *staff* had a clear majority. A player vote is completely pointless.

From the rules page:

General Rules of Conduct

Illarion is played by many people from all around the world. Therefore a set of basic rules are necessary to ensure that everyone get the most out of it. The server is privately owned by us, so we reserve the right to ban people. If we have dismissed a claim that a penalty or ban was too rough, there is no need to continuously notify us of your opinion. Our decision is final, and bugging us about it can only get you into more trouble.

So, who wants the ban to stay and who wants him back is completely irrelevant, and might well get those protesting it into trouble of their own.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:27 pm

the 80% mayority of the staff.

that is what counts.

to be frank:

i even think, if the question of banning POStephen had been put to a player voting, that i would have voted possibly for him staying. (more likely, than for a perm. ban)

but i also think, that the game as such would be severely harmed, if the given ban would be taken back now. (the reason for this thought i gave in one of the above posts)

korm

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:27 pm

Yes, let's never contest anything ever. The staff are as gods to us. Let's just bend over and let them do whatever they want.

WickedEwok · Post by **WickedEwok** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:28 pm

I wish that would happen everytime something goes wrong here

If it was someone else not so popular who would be the victim, most would agree or not even care. You discuss single rulebreaks to death when there are several that are responsible for the ban and you start topics over and over because this is so damn "unfair".

I don't trust authorities blindly, in this case the GMs or Staff, but there has been a vote and the majority voted for his perma ban. We could discuss about the title, the vote was announced with, maybe the font and the whole case as it was presented to the GMs, because this could have influenced the vote.

But it's well known that the majority of the Staff is German or European, Nazis and Commies of course, so the vote does not count!

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:30 pm

donal,

sorry to read that.
till now we succeded more or less, to stay with a clean and sober discussion.

edit:

donal and ewok,

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:31 pm

Korm, you think the game is serverely harmed if they make Sam not perm banned?

I think perm banning has harmed this place enough itself don't you?

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:44 pm

retlak,

yes, the ban has hurt the game. because stephen rothman was a central figure on the island.

but you and me, like most of the others, don't have the full information, to decide, if that decision of the staff was correct, or not.**

so, this being no democracy, but a privately owned game, we both either have to assume that the decision was correct, or we should leave a game, where we think, that we are treated bad.
i seriously think, it comes down to that. - why?

because, as i stated before, the staff is not in condition, to take back the ban, without harming the game even worse.

korm

(**) i discount POStephens descriptions of the happenings from valid information, because he had lied before. (to me personally, in PMs)

i wrote:

no, you are not right, when you think, the staff should now back up and allow this player in again.

for the last statement i think i owe an explanation:
right or wrong, this decision has been taken. it has been taken by mayority vote of the whole staff.
if it will not be upheld, than all of the players, in future cases of temp. or perm. bans will dig up this case, to argue a change of their sanctions.
that would make illarion ungovernable. = unplayable.
i would not want that - period-

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:55 pm

Sorry to interfere you in your very "nice" and endless ... conflict.

To make some notices:

To "my" times it was a nearly "holy" thing NOT to speak about the chars of a single player, GM or whatever. And it was prohibit and punished to talk about the chars of other players. But since years it changes. People like to talk about their chars. Everyone knows the chars of the other player - An BIG mistake in my mind. That is one of the main reasons of the conflicts around of this game. You know each other and you have conflicts in OOC-mean and overtake them in the ingame happen.

The page about the contacts, who of the staff has what job was made in result of the last rl-meeting. But if i can remember right, anywhere should be written, that these are the "main jobs" of the people, who work for this game. It only shows the player, who has been contacted if there are any questions or problems. The list is not complete. It does not show all jobs of single staffmembers.

The rules are old and are not changed since a while. But the mean of them should be clear for everyone. Maybe the thing about the Gamemasters should be changed in "Staffmembers, or "Slaves of the Game", whatever. "Gamemaster" is only an old declaration of the people who work for the game and have some "rights". But since when you are so much detailed?

My main job is to manage the map and make real your more or less sensefull building projects. But if nothing other is to do i also ban people for acting against the main important rules, take a look for bad names and try to save some of these damn new players, which do not read the manual or any side of the webpage by a smalltalk. If you do not want this because it is not written down, tell me.

In the last months i started to become sick of this community and all the trouble on these boards. I have to agree with Hadrian, yes. For me, it also seems to be, that we get a general conflict between some parts of the players and the staff. Beside of it, that i have other things to do more and more, i lose my motivation by this. For what i should work here, if the conflicts within this community becomes so much hard more and more?

I can agree with you, that PO Stephen is your friend. And it is your right to "fight" for him. But it should not be made in this kind like here in the last weeks. It goes around without an end. People get threatened. That is senseless! It demotivates you and parts of the staff. If you think, that is the right way to "protest", you should ask you, what happens if the staff would start to protest against their players.

Maybe next time the holidays like the last should be used to shut down the server and the webpage (inspecial the boards) for one or two weeks, so that "all" can calm down again by concentrating on their real life.

But my proposal to end here would be, that you debate the whole topic in the IRC channel. A moderated discussion in realtime should have more success to find an end than these board threads.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:56 pm

Dear players.

The Staff's decision is final.

If you want sam unbanned, then you should stop flaming, and try to act nice to them instead of pointing fingers.

Have a nice day

Adrian

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:03 pm

Since this is inevitabley going to be locked anyhow, I might as well reply to Korm's bickering one time, having not the opportunity before lock in the past.

Korm,

You love to target me every time I visit the forums here. I haven't a clue what your problem is.

I quit the staff not because I hate the game, or even the staff (and, in fact, I still have friends among the staff). There are even parts of the staff that work! The map team that I left behind even seems more functional without me, to be honest. I love the work the devs have done with the client and the scripting. I worship Martin daily as a god.

However, the staff has done a few things that I do hate, lately. So, when I have time to visit, I visit, and if I feel one cause or another needs clarification, I'll ask for it. If I have a strong enough opinion about it, I'll post my opinion.

I was the last GM to be added to the ranks in the old-fashioned way: a unanimous vote; my opinion apparently was worth something back then, and I haven't changed; I'm merely free of the constraints of being a staff member while having those thoughts.

I left only because my computer broke, and when I returned I was too far behind to continue. Afterwards, I didn't have time to be a staff member and I don't enjoy playing without the account system (and before you get on your soapbox and rant about how cruel the world was when there was an account system which you experienced for maybe five seconds, I don't need your conspiracy theories. I existed then, and I'm capable of forming my own thoughts!)

The last two times I've become active in arguments on the boards were when I first recieved my new computer and I was still a staff member to some degree when you were picking at me for "coming out of the blue and arguing against the game!!!!11" There were a few important things for me to do before I fully quit and I left my opinion before things got too busy at my new job. This time it's the holiday. I've got some spare Christmas time.

I don't know why I feel I should have to explain myself to you. Truthfully if you had a better grasp of English and a high school diploma I'd have it out with you. Rather, I pity you. So who's pathetic?

-Mitch

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:05 pm

lennier,

i don't have ICQ or whatever.

but you are right. i will not write about this anymore.

korm

edit:
aegohl,

too late. i just gave my word. your post will stay unanswered.
(you can PM me, if you want)

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:11 pm

Nope. I'm fine getting the last word on this one.

Illarion.org

Dear former colleagues

Re: Dear former colleagues