Illarion.org

@Garret: Sometimes it's what you don't say then what you do.

I remember the time we used to boast having a friendly community.

I have noticed the first 3 Taylor mentioned, and agree.

Cawdy has a point, but if one person starts I just get annoyed lately.
I guess many have that, and every action has a reaction, ect.

Okay Ladies. My turn.

First of all. No reason for double posts Sam

With that words i want allready come to the end of my speach, because i think its waste of time to write really much here.

All what i could write, was written allready dozens of times.

The dwarfs are pissed. I think nearly everyone knows this now.

I think the reason for this is clear too. Starts with "Stephen", ends with "Rothman".

So our main parties are the dwarfs and our loved knighthood.

The point of all those problem is, that one party does something not that fine ( crap RP, forced RP, invulnerable Golems, raiding the mine while noone of the other party is online ). And the other party response with something slightly worser. And this goes on and on until we come to the point, where we are at the moment.
One party flames and the other one wants to leave. Sadly. Really =)

But didn't we all know that it will come to this point somehow.

The main problem is, that neighter the dwarfs, nor the knighthood, plays a really fair game. Both parties try to use and abuse all possibilities they have. Currently the knighthood is more successfull.

But is this the intension of the game? PO Thariel said it. We all play this game and should play together. Roleplay is the point. But is it really roleplay what goes on here? Or a combination of hack&slash and using ooc informations, combined with a slightly touch of roleplay?
Think about this.

Two parties are at war. Is is fair, good roleplay and fun for all, to wait till one party logged out and is became weak this way, to attack then?
I think it would be even better, if the leaders of those parties would speak together, even over ooc possibilies, to let the two parties come together on full strength.

For examble as the knighthood tried to got Arameh out. Not discussing how he got in, that was a little lame. But under normal conditions. Wouldn't it be more fun, to try this, while the dwarfs are around?

There are many points i could name, but its all the same. The whole things, wasn't that what everyone would call good roleplay. It was only fun for one party and so it was bad.

Think about the possibilities how you can play together. Its better if all have fun and not just a few.

Nitram

Cawdor wrote:I remember the time we used to boast having a friendly community.

There used to be a time I would get on with only 2 other people were online. Because they had depth, Story, Background, and an aura that was contagious and intoxicating

And as to this current conflict, what do you think is going to happen when your a weak nation and you have the easiest place to mine useful ores from? And the conflict started because you guys tried to jail us.

The dwarfes are strong enough, they would be able to beat Stephens group in a fair battle.
They are just not strong enough against players who attack with their whole group when most of the dwarven players went to bed because it was too late for them. There are at least 5 other dwarves who are as strong as Ghorn, and ghorn is as strong as stephen. they just find no time to play when you guys are ingame.
Thats a problem also Nitram mentioned.
And sorry, but you abused the "they are all off because they have to sleep when we are active" problem.
Want to see how you whine when we walk to your castle building place and burn everything down while you have late at night or early at morning and cant be there for it

Nitram is right when he says when one side does something bad the other side gets frustrated and does something worse. it was illustrated when ghorn was clouded by the golem at the start of the conflict and returned to attack stephen, then i did basically the same thing in sivlerbrand when i was clouded which gave patric reason to have ghorn run away from the cross after being clouded again :/

I am sorry I sunk so low that was bullshit on my part.

Thurbert~ wrote:Weiters möchte ich alle anderen Spieler von Silverbrand Zwergen (Vorallem dich Patric) Bitten keine Kommentare zu schreiben.
Es bringt einfach nichts. Ich wiederhole es nochmal dies ist nichts weiter als ein Stiller Protest der zeigen soll dass irgendwie irgendwas nicht stimmt.

Ich finde es ziemlich traurig Patric, das du dich nicht mal auf so eine Bitte hin, etwas zusammennehmen kannst.

Erm?

Ok first, the only direct characters who have been blamed for 'non RPing' or 'Bad RP' to my knowledge, in these posts, are Ssafar and Georgius. If you would have looked at the knighthood's list of member, you would have noticed that none of those are on it, meaning they arent part of Kallahorn

And then, goes the powergaming part. I for my part do not train Arameh anymore, not since a good while, the only reasons I would go fighting NPCs would be to test the fighting system and report any big problems from it. For the others of the knighthood, sure they all HAVE to train, simply because they want to raise in rank and trained is needed. But to raise in rank in the guild dosent only take skill, Arameh now asks for members to know the basics about religion and races so that raising in rank be possible. Of course some members might train overly, that is the sort of thing I cannot control and I do not think it is my responsibility, but I know and try to ensure that ALL of them can roleplay decently and do such often. In particular, the training sessions with Arameh requires a lot of roleplay from them.

For the part of losing, I find it rather childish from the player of the dwarves, if I was one of the complainers on this I woulnt have signed my name.. Here is a resume of the cause of the start of the war :

---------------------------
First Stephen mines illegally into Silverbrand, Arameh does not know about this. Then it seems that some of the dwarves 'catch him' (meaning they were online while he was mining), because they begin posting on our board something like " Some dwarves seen Rothman mining illegally, punish him! ". Yeah right, Arameh did not know about Stephen mining illegally, and he just get that message, with not even an evidence, who would he believe? His knight? Or a bunch of dwarves that always hated the knighthood? The answer is logical to me.

Then, after a few days Arameh and Stephen goes to Silverbrand, Arameh to try finishing this damn thing once and for all, and Stephen to 'defend his honor'. Then we go there, at the moment we entered Silverbrand there were 7 dwarves online, Stephen shouted at the door for a while until we get an answer, some dwarf was shouting, but none did even come at the gate to talk to our characters. A little after we had shouted the dwarves online were only 1 . Arameh was pissed, because he took this as if the dwarves were either hiding or ignoring him, and found it quite honorless. So yes, they both got to take their pickaxes and mined there for a few minutes, only to get the attention of the dwarves (he would have gave the ores back after). So there WAS one dwarf online, and PO Ghorn knew we were into the mines mining, since the begining.

After a while, Ghorn comes out with his super golem, and before our characters can even talk about the whole situation, we get told " Go to jail or die". I mean, maybe it was logical for the character 'Ghorn' to do this, but this was easily seen as a declaration of war. Then Stephen and Arameh both jump and kill Ghorn and then try to flee from the golem.

---------------------------
I do not see anything wrong with the behaviour of the character Ghorn into this action, but it IS because of him this war started. If you dont want troubles, you MUST NOT menace the leaders of one of the most powerful guild of Gobiath, it was a very stupid action and I am sure Ghorn woulnt have done it if he didnt have invincible golems to ensure he coulnt lose any war.

What I mean into this, is that if you act like you rule everything and your people can destroy any force (like Ghorn basically), then war might happen, and it will be because of such behaviour. I am not gonna tell you how to roleplay your dwarvish characters, but I am telling, accept the consequences of your own character's mistakes. The war could easily have been avoided with a simple talk, if it has been started, it was because of the menaces of death from Ghorn, because of the behaviour and thoughts of the character, nothing else.

It was always like this, Ghorn would insult a lot of people on the island, whoever they are, and act like he's the 'big boss'. This is not for no reason that Silverbrand has been the city the most in war (at least since I joined), and I do not think he has nearly been thrown off because he is the 'perfect leader'. Do not act more than you are, its as simple as that.

I would also add, Illarion I thought was a game where everything was possible. Why should taking another city have to be completely impossible then? OF COURSE not everyone would be happy with it, but so what, shall we reduce the whole RP of the game by making our characters magically change their veiws about a city because taking it would make some players unhappy? NO, I never and I will never change my RP because of such OOC matters, I do not think the game needs to lower the quality of its RP which is already lowering because of such matters. I nor Arameh wants to take it currently, but if such conflicts happen once again, I wont change my character's views because it might make some players angry you can be sure.

My last words "If you dont want something to happen, dont try to make it happen"

- Dan

please avoid mixing Thurbert with Ghorn. Thurbert wrote at your board, Thurbert planned aramehs jailing, Thurbert done Amroths jailing. i were not involved in the planning. i did few. Thurbert did most. so dont shout "Ghorn!" at every second sentence just because we have our problems ooc. thank you

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:please avoid mixing Thurbert with Ghorn. Thurbert wrote at your board, Thurbert planned aramehs jailing, Thurbert done Amroths jailing. i were not involved in the planning. i did few. Thurbert did most. so dont shout "Ghorn!" at every second sentence just because we have our problems ooc. thank you

I know Thurbert was posting, and jailed both the members, my point wasnt to blame Ghorn.

Arameh made a good post. I agree with him, but still admit I have sunk to a new low of my roleplay during conflicts and I promise I won't do that again, nor will encourage or let people within stephens "influence" do the same thing.

Arameh wrote:First Stephen mines illegally into Silverbrand, Arameh does not know about this.

Server wrote:Tue Oct 31 01:02:23 2006 - Arameh(148425105) mined in SB Level -3 while no dwarf was ingame.

What ever you say, lad...

The server actually records the amounts of dwarves ingame and posts it behind every log record?

Nitram wrote:

Arameh wrote:First Stephen mines illegally into Silverbrand, Arameh does not know about this.

Server wrote:Tue Oct 31 01:02:23 2006 - Arameh(148425105) mined in SB Level -3 while no dwarf was ingame.

What ever you say, lad...

Hrm, Arameh did not mine in Silverbrand between the time he was thrown of the city once Stephen got jailed, and at the day of the start of the conflict, so he didnt mine at all during that time.


Edit : Ohh october 31..

This was in the siege agaisnt Silverbrand, lot of knighthood members were there.

Not at all. Thats a logging addition in the mining script i put in around 2 weeks ago

Nitram., to defend arameh, that was AFTER the struggle already started. after stephen did, after dwarves accused stephen, after knightood and dwarves were at war.

That was during the siege nitram.

Ingame conflicts are Char conflicts, that's RP.
RP should be, to play together with friends.
Even if our chars dislike each another, we have a common goal : To have fun playing together.
And that is only possible with fairness from all sides, true.

I know that one can Roleplay good with POs of both parties.
Anyhow we're all Roleplayers, especially in the U.S. (due to different campaigns of different churches mainly, i thnk) we are seen as freaks, so let's just try to stick together. And roleplay. *g*
We could need a simple rule about group conflict handling which just reminds us of that...

Agree entirely with Damien

Ive proposed OOC rules for ingame wars.

Be nice and play fair... basic rule for the game ^^

http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/04060401.html

the only thing i want to say.

and this is the antagonist.

do you see the difference`?

http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/04050601.html

Alright, I perfectly agree with the whole thing. Look that day, SSTEPHEN SUCKS WITH RP! WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS! IF HE HAS GOOD SKILLS DOES NOT MEAN HE DOES NOT NEED TO RP! He slashed with NO #ME! And when I told him in OOC he said never! THE WHOLE KNIGHTHOOD DOES NOT RP! I SAY SSTEPHEN GET HIS SKILLS REDUCED BY A LOT! ATLEAST MAKE IT GREEN AND ARAMEH. LOOK THE WHOLE GAME SUCKS WHEN YOU HAVE YELLOW SKILLS. SO PLEASE DROP IT DOWN SO THE DWARVES GET A BREAK. NO OTHER CHARS GIVE PROBLEMS BUT STEPHEN AND ARAMEH... Please drop skills.

And for the person that talked about my LIZARD! LOOK YOUR CHAR DID SOMETHING WITH HIS EYE AND MY LIZARD GO SCARED YA YA ILLUSION MY LIZARD GOT SCARED THATS IT HE DID NOT KNOW A THING ABOUT ILLUSIONS AND ALL...

wtf?... ~ Markous

if stephen skills are 60/100 they are green.

and swish...stop using caplslock...please

They were meant. Did you not see the words not in caps? Then you should have thought,"hmm, he used some words in regular letters so maybe he meant the caps?"

EDIT: Samanantha will not teach my chars magic but looks like I have to teach her some lessons. ROFL

Swish, please stop touching the caps OR caps lock key if not necessary. It was pretty clear to everyone that you intended to write like that.
You also misunderstood this topic. It is no witch hunt against anyone. It brings out what went wrong in illarion lately, and all parties agreed on that and admitted that they were pretty involved, and could have done much better.
In short, you just marked yourself as a good example for illa's actual problems.
Roleplaying is about playing WITH each other, not AGAINST, and especially using OOC possibilities to kick someone else's behind, is the worst you can do for the whole game and the community.

I think Swish and Garret need to me in person and have a fight to the death.