Suggestion about item breakage

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:36 pm

What's that?

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:14 pm

@Nitram

There was a sensible proposal a while back wherby repearing an item would increase its durability but by doing so decrease its quality.

Personally, normal item breakage should be tweaked a little, though I don't find anything wrong with it personally. Balamos fights with all stuff he's gained from the ruined temple, and they last a fair while. However it is a little against RP taking an extra set of everything into battle. As someone said, having to be a packrat.

What I would like to see however is a system similar to Baldur's gate. Where normal items break in a reasonable time period, but magical weapons do not. Again, this would obviously need some careful tweaking to be considered, but as is, people get a magical sword as a reward for a quest, and by the time comes for them to use it in a follow up quest, it has been broken.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:16 pm

"It will take forever to make Illarion a satisfying game for all." - I guess.

Item breakage is totally unbalanced, period. When somebody has the time to do so, it will be rebalanced. But this might take a while, from weeks to years, depending on how much support the staff gets and how motivated they are intrinsic.

Dumping item breakage is not an option here, but improving side aspects is. Like, making it more easy to earn a living by slaying monsters.

We all know that Illarion has a very long way to go to become a good game in terms of non-RP-related things like game balance, motivation of players, overall gameplay and such things. And IMHO this road became longer and longer the more things were implemented. That's why some/many players wish the "good old days" to come back; everything was simple and straight forward, not complex, not realistic but fun (in the terms mentioned above - I am not referring to the RP back then). Maybe it is possible to bring back that fun without dumping the aweseome improvements of the past years. Many have lost the faith in this, though. Including me.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:28 pm

Personally, I'd blame it on the failure rates of crafting

Is there a NEED for armor worth a few ks? Yes, because the poor smith has lost loads of resources to make it...

If you decrease the need, the price will drop; and we'll all be happy... apart from the fact that you'll still need a few spares.. ah well

=

@Martin

Let A be equal to an infinatly small number =/= 0

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:09 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:Let A be equal to an infinatly small number =/= 0

Sure, however you wouldn't be able to produce at that rate

Martin

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:17 pm

Well, to me, weapons and equipment breaking is good. First let me make something clear..

Unskilled fighter = Breaks everything lightning fast.
Very skilled fighter = Barely breaks anything.

I "think" weapons breaking rate is alright, but the main part of the armor definitively needs to be harder to me. Most of the hits we take goes right on the chest armor, so it should be much harder to break than just gloves or boots, maybe we could make armors harder to break. Repairing woulnt be bad either..

Edit : Yeah I agree with Estralis. To me it seems like every developers works on adding new stuff to illarion, and nearly to balance things out and fix the bugs. If you need proofs look here http://illarion.org/flyspray/index.php? ... &project=2 .

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:14 am

^ My character is pretty skilled in more than just one form of fighting, yet his stuff continues to break quickly.

Plus, isn't that formulation a kick in the balls to the unskilled? Not only can newbies get pWned by everybody around them, but they can't keep equipment that they can't even afford?

Ullyatth Leader · Post by **Ullyatth Leader** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:35 am

[quote="Bloodhearte"]@Keikan - But the suggestion isn't about the time it takes for items to break, the suggestion is to scrap it altogether because I think it's a bad idea.[quote]

Ah. I agree with taking a lot longer for them to break, but not that they keep forever, otherwise as soon as you have an amazing weapon you could just powergame. Nowadays, if you have a really good weapon, you try to limit its usage so it doesn't break and you don't have to pay lots of money again. Plus it'd be bad for the smiths, they'd have no business once everyone had the best weapon. I can see that it may be good having unbreakable weapons, but it's A. not very realistic, but long wearing weapons would be and B. there may be another Himasyn Zhylliolom. http://hugin.llsc.us/Illarion/muten.html .

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:43 am

I am not sure which items break too fast: The crappy ones you buy from NPCs or the really good ones, smithed by really good player smithes?

Because breakage speed depends on the quality of items.

Martin

Ullyatth Leader · Post by **Ullyatth Leader** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:45 am

martin wrote:I am not sure which items break too fast: The crappy ones you buy from NPCs or the really good ones, smithed by really good player smithes?

Because breakage speed depends on the quality of items.

Martin

Yes, but the original cruddy swords you start with should have a little more wear or they won't be able to AFFORD a really good one smithed by a player just from fighting. They'd have to have a second job, which goes to Bloodhearte's original point.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:47 am

Ullyatth Leader wrote:
Bloodhearte wrote:@Keikan - But the suggestion isn't about the time it takes for items to break, the suggestion is to scrap it altogether because I think it's a bad idea.

Ah. I agree with taking a lot longer for them to break, but not that they keep forever, otherwise as soon as you have an amazing weapon you could just powergame. Nowadays, if you have a really good weapon, you try to limit its usage so it doesn't break and you don't have to pay lots of money again. Plus it'd be bad for the smiths, they'd have no business once everyone had the best weapon. I can see that it may be good having unbreakable weapons, but it's A. not very realistic, but long wearing weapons would be and B. there may be another Himasyn Zhylliolom. http://hugin.llsc.us/Illarion/muten.html .

Smiths were in fairly good business before the implementation of item breaking. And who cares if it's realistic or not? It's a game, made purely for entertainment value.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:24 pm

Bloodhearte wrote:And who cares if it's realistic or not? It's a game, made purely for entertainment value.

And not all of us find pure hack-n-slash particularly entertaining. Some of us *enjoy* having crafters for characters. If you take away 99% of their source of income, you also take away a great deal of the entertainment from us. This is why a balance needs to be found, not too much in either direction.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:34 pm

Nobody here mentioned anything about ousting crafter playing. I've also mentioned numerous times that they wouldn't lose much income, as most of their income comes from NPCs who buy in mass quantities as opposed to actual characters.

"Balance" is an overused term on these boards that never works, because players will always try to find the "better" way to doing things...be it crafting, fighting, what have you. No sense in trying to rely on an honor system.

When the developers ask for feedback, they just give somebody the finger and say "STFU, our way or the highway" whenever a player complains about a flaw.

Irania · Post by **Irania** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:36 pm

Heh, you so got that from me, Bloodearte! It had to be said.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:44 pm

And it bears repeating.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:52 pm

Bloodhearte wrote:Nobody here mentioned anything about ousting crafter playing. I've also mentioned numerous times that they wouldn't lose much income, as most of their income comes from NPCs who buy in mass quantities as opposed to actual characters.

"Balance" is an overused term on these boards that never works, because players will always try to find the "better" way to doing things...be it crafting, fighting, what have you. No sense in trying to rely on an honor system.

When the developers ask for feedback, they just give somebody the finger and say "STFU, our way or the highway" whenever a player complains about a flaw.

Well, for the crafters, they dont really make much income withg NPCs, at least not the smiths. If by example, Salathe makes 8 LOr-Angur armors in 100 ingots (that can be bought from Arameh for 1000 coppers ^^), he can make maybe 3 sellable ones and 5 crappy ones. Well, the most of his incomes will come from his good armors, he can sell them each 800-1400 coppers, depending on quality. But with the crappy old armors, he sells them to NPCs, but he dosent make any profits from them, they buy for what, 75 coppers each Lor-Angur? it dosent even pay for the ingots.

Well, I would just dislike totally that equipment just stops breaking, but we could either balances things or make NPCS drop more money. Because its true that total n00bs have a fricking hard time with their money when they want to be a fighter, and yeah, good fighters dosent make any incomes as well.