New Fighting System changes

Berengar · Post by **Berengar** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:58 am

General impression: I think it is quite balanced now, maybe just a little more parry in general.

NPC's: Many of them are overpowered now imo (tested ogres, trolls, demon skelletons). I think it's because parry in general is lower, so they hit more and do too much damage compared to the amount of succeded hits. By the way, ogre mages have too many hitpoints or too high magic abilities imo. Mummies, skelletons and weaker stuff seems alright.

PvP:I think this is quite good now, I ve only tried very few different char's though, maybe little more parry, right now it seems that a swift, light armour using char who can dodge easily wins against a heavy armour using, parry-focused char (dont know if this was deliberate

)

Weapons: Two handed weapon damage is good now in my opinion (tried waraxe, double axe, two handed sword, bastard sword).

One weapon fighting has far too low parry imo, don't see a reason why it should be that much lower than using a two handed weapon (tested scimitar, serinjah sword and longsword).

Distance fighting: Hardly any experience with that, but damage seems to be better balanced now (or maybe it's just my impression and it hasn't even been changed

) It seems impossible to gain skill though.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:16 am

ogre mages have too many hitpoints or too high magic abilities imo. Mummies, skelletons and weaker stuff seems alright.

sure your not just mad because you can't kill everything? Ive never seen an ogre mage but it sounds as though it's supposed to be strong.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:22 am

Berengar wrote:It seems impossible to gain skill though.

Thats for every fighting skill ( I didnt test crafting), It seems that weak character dosent get skill faster at all, I barely ever get any skill up going to mummys with a noobish character, pigs gives more skill since we pass more time striking than healing (in opposite to fighting mummys).

For NPCs, I think they are all a bit too strong, mummys can be killed by a weak fighter, sure, but he needs to be wearing a decent armor (plate or highter), using a decent weapon, and will be healing 80% of the 'training', which may be why skill gain seems very slow.

For Pvp, Its much better now, dodge seems needed though, its more efficient than parrying with most weapons.

Thats all I had to say..

Urilen Quanasuard · Post by **Urilen Quanasuard** » Fri May 05, 2006 1:54 am

Everything is good, except the skill gain is as slow as hell...

Can someone do something like that? Newbies get frustrated when they fight for an hour or so, and then their skills don't go up in any colour at all.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Fri May 05, 2006 2:11 am

same with goldsmithing, I vote for faster skills!

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri May 05, 2006 4:07 am

Ok, NPC's:Ogre mages have no weapon, they cannot parry and do barely any damage with their hands. Consider your tactics of fighting a mage. Their magic is strong, but your chars magic resistance stats is probobly near nothing. Also, there are bugs regarding magic resistance, so it will change some in the future. Remember Berengar, your char is only human, these things are not. You may have t0t@||y U|3e|2 $|<1||z, but they have super-strength and godly granted power.

Pvp:parry focused chars you fought likely didn't use a shield.
Why would you use 1 weapon and leave your other hand useless? Seems more like your char needs to discover this. Two 1 handers parry decently, me and salathe duelled and parried eachother often, though seemingly not doing much damage after many minutes of fighting.

Distance:I know its possible, my char has improved though he used about 250 arrows, given his skill is pretty high it seems as logical as other weapons.

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Fri May 05, 2006 4:21 am

Distance:I know its possible, my char has improved though he used about 250 arrows, given his skill is pretty high it seems as logical as other weapons.

i used 1000 arrows up and got maybe 4 % skill. Maybe just those knowing the scripts and with whom monster you can train best, and who wear full armor and have damn high parry and dodge are able to train well

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri May 05, 2006 6:29 am

Shandariel el Lysanthrai wrote:i used 1000 arrows up and got maybe 4 % skill. Maybe just those knowing the scripts and with whom monster you can train best, and who wear full armor and have damn high parry and dodge are able to train well

That would equate equally with my 1% skill up, whats your point? Considering skill up is controlled randomness, and I don't know any of the scripts, or even the scripting language, I think thats pretty fair. None of the people who do know them play real chars anymore anyway. Wearing full heavy armor is costly, and reduces the ability to dodge on many peices of heavy armor to almost nothing for someone with high dogde. Train well? I don't see how you can train luck, but thats just me.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Fri May 05, 2006 6:59 am

Wearing full heavy armor is costly, and reduces the ability to dodge on many peices of heavy armor to almost nothing for someone with high dogde

Not true. Berengar has full dodge and even when wearing full metalarmor like lorangur he dodges at least half (or even more) of all attacks from a warrior with skills from around 80%

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri May 05, 2006 7:18 am

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:Not true. Berengar has full dodge and even when wearing full metalarmor like lorangur he dodges at least half (or even more) of all attacks from a warrior with skills from around 80%

Actually, an average lor angur is nearly equal to an excellent leather armor and even less effective against 1 type of weapon. I don't know why its like that, but it is. I'll ask someone.

Maybe this is the source of Berengar's damage taking complaints as well.

Berengar · Post by **Berengar** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:16 pm

@ Poots: Hurray, glad to see that useless flaming hasn't died out...
[quote]Ive never seen an ogre mage[/quote]

so you have no idea what I was talking about.

@ Grobul:
Ogre Mages: In my opinion mages (no matter if NPC's or player chars) are very strong, and can kill every fighter with a few spells, and that's ok. However, if you manage to get into close combat range, the mage should suck as fighters suck when they are further away, so if the ogre mage can kill me with 4-5 spells and I need 10+ hits it is unbalanced in my view (unless ogres are meant to be one of the very powerful creatures only defeatable in groups, dont know about that, they are quite common though and never used to be something special

)

PvP: [quote]Why would you use 1 weapon and leave your other hand useless? Seems more like your char needs to discover this.[/quote]

My char never uses 1 weapon leaving the other hand useless, but as far as I know there are some posh, pseudo-aristocratic chars

who might want to use a rapier, longsword, etc. without a shield, because it fits better to their role...

@sam: [quote]Berengar has full dodge and even when wearing full metalarmor like lorangur he dodges at least half [/quote]

I always used leather armour when duelling you, except at our very first one

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:26 pm

Berengar wrote: so if the ogre mage can kill me with 4-5 spells and I need 10+ hits it is unbalanced in my view

The problem in your case seems, although your skills are powergamed beyond anything sane, that your character simply sucks in defending against magic, attribute wise.
Your character is simply "unablanced".

I, personaly, consider 10 hits as a very good number to kill an orge.
After all its an ogre and not a fragile human.

Edit:
Replaced nasty typo's with better typo's.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:27 pm

Berengar wrote: @ Grobul:
Ogre Mages: In my opinion mages (no matter if NPC's or player chars) are very strong, and can kill every fighter with a few spells, and that's ok. However, if you manage to get into close combat range, the mage should suck as fighters suck when they are further away, so if the ogre mage can kill me with 4-5 spells and I need 10+ hits it is unbalanced in my view (unless ogres are meant to be one of the very powerful creatures only defeatable in groups, dont know about that, they are quite common though and never used to be something special )

I agree with the mage situation currantly.

Ive tested with characters with High Essence and still these creatures do a tremendous amount of damage, which is fine. If it were not so people would PG Magic Resistance, which truely should not be done.

But on the other hand, for common spawning creatures a reduction in constitution would be beneficial in making them weaker in close combat.

I speak of only self spawning creatures.

Edit : And i agree with Keikan, ogres could be a different matter with the constitution, but perhaps a sacriface in thier other offensive/defensive skills.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:30 pm

Keikan Hiru wrote:
Berengar wrote: so if the ogre mage can kill me with 4-5 spells and I need 10+ hits it is unbalanced in my view
The problem in your case seems, although your skills are powergamed beyond anything sane, that your character simply sucks in defending against magic, attribute wise.
Your character is simply "unablanced".

I, personaly, consider 10 hits as a very good number to kill an orge.
After all its an orge and not a fragile human.

Actually, it's an ogre.

And what Arist said, mages should have low constitution no? Like us player-mages?

Berengar · Post by **Berengar** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:43 pm

@ Keikan:
Ok, once again:
Mage (high skills/high stats for magic, so "PGed and beyond any sane" according to you) attacks Fighter (high skills/high stats for fighting, also "PGed and beyond any sane") with big fireball --> Fighter sucks, and that is a good thing. (Yes, the player of a "PGed and beyond any sane"-char agrees that it is a good thing that his "PGed and beyond any sane"-char loses)

I think even you agree so far.

Fighter attacks Mage with big blade---> Mage doesn't suck, and thats a good thing?

To avoid further flaming, insults and getting off topic: This example is still for the NPC mages, although the text in bracets refers to player chars.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:48 pm

I don't agree that NPCs are bound to the same maximum attribute points rule as player characters are.
Because of that, they can aswell have "rather good" constitution (and anything else) and the correct magic-attributes.

And, I said "pg'ed beyond anything sane" not "pg and beyond sanity", thats still a difference.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Fri May 05, 2006 5:59 pm

Do you need the same amount of hits for a mage ogre like for a normal one? how many do you need for a normal warrior ogre?

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Fri May 05, 2006 6:03 pm

That's what I wondered as well. An ogre mage should have low strength and constitution- for an ogre. It can still have better stats then a human, but lower then the usual creature of its kind.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri May 05, 2006 6:14 pm

Ogre mages are monsters. They can simply be better than ordinary ogres. They may have better loot too - so there's no need to make them much weaker. You can also team up with a mage and then go for the ogre magi.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri May 05, 2006 7:54 pm

Aristeaus wrote:Ive tested with characters with High Essence and still these creatures do a tremendous amount of damage, which is fine. If it were not so people would PG Magic Resistance, which truely should not be done.

There are bugs, and essence is one of them, magic resistance is another.

Gro'bul wrote:Also, there are bugs regarding magic resistance, so it will change some in the future.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue May 09, 2006 12:58 am

Did skill gain get hightened? I noticed today that I was getting much more skils up.

martin · Post by **martin** » Tue May 09, 2006 1:55 am

Arameh_ wrote:Did skill gain get hightened? I noticed today that I was getting much more skils up.

It was not mentioned here, so: NO.

Martin

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Tue May 09, 2006 2:09 am

I think there was a bug in the fighting system which enabled me to slay a demon with a spoon. Was this meant to happen?

martin · Post by **martin** » Tue May 09, 2006 2:13 am

Aristeaus wrote:I think there was a bug in the fighting system which enabled me to slay a demon with a spoon. Was this meant to happen?

Yes. It's part of our policy to help to extinct endangered species.

Martin

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Tue May 09, 2006 2:14 am

*attacks Martin with a spoon*

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Wed May 10, 2006 4:34 am

Aristeaus wrote:I think there was a bug in the fighting system which enabled me to slay a demon with a spoon. Was this meant to happen?

It was an Illusionary demon ^^ They die if anything hits them.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Wed May 10, 2006 5:43 pm

LoL, awww

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat May 13, 2006 2:21 am

I have noticed that weapons dosent break by attacking with them, but by being used to parry. Is this wanted that they break the same way as armors? I noticed it after killing 60-100 pigs, and my staff keeping the same "hightly scratched" condition, while the staff can break for about 10-20 mummys.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sat May 13, 2006 10:25 am

Weapons break on pigs, just very very slowly.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Sat May 13, 2006 1:56 pm

Is this right? You are essentially whacking the pigs just as hard as you would the skeletons.