Suggestions for thing

[Keikan Hiru]

If you feel like it you can send me your code too, I'd like to read it.

And, if you are so certain about this time function, would you please include a very simple LUA-code ?
This code should just send a message to the user, 5 seconds after an item was used.
I could use such a template for some things I have in mind.

[falco1029]

I can let you see the code after nitram tells me mine's ok, my first version was bugged, so he made me get a compiler (which i admit was stupid of me to not get right away). As for the time thing, im not doing that anymore, but if you look at thedocument explaining the functions, there's a worl time thing, you can compare hours and minutes at least, and while it wouldnt work well for time limited things, itd work nicely for say, doiung something then doing it again x amount of time later, though it may do it an extra time during day or year changes....


Of cours,e i havent tried any of this yet, it was just an idea, and what i think it'd do

[falco1029]

Hmm, sorry this isnt happening anymore, though nitram fixed up the code and sent it back to me he said its stupid to pick locks with weapons and so it isnt being implemented, sorry.

[Estralis Seborian]

How about using this one:

[Keikan Hiru]

You want to scrap all this because you need to exchange one item ID with another?
You aren't serious, are you?

[falco1029]

All this what? I had maybe 20 lines of code for the system. it took me a while to get the right functions and such, but still. And I have no clue what the lockpick item id is, plus that's a gm item right now, it'd need to be spread, and i wanted lockpicking to be doable with a sharp weapon anyway. I dont see why nitram thinks that isnt possible, it's like he doesnt know how locks works....

[Nitram]

gna.

How often shall i tell you this?!

I wrote you at least 2 times:

DON'T use weapons to open locks

USE ANY key item, we will name it lockpick

@Estralis: The lockpick item looks...bah...i don't want to see this in contact with players >.>

Nitram

[falco1029]

You told me twice today, after i had already told you i was using weapons for it when i originally asked you about it BEFORTE i started the script. During that duration you never said anything. As I said before, you must not know how locks work because a puncture weapon could open one. Not easily, but thats why the skill is so hard. A lockpick would work fine ALONG with it, but its stupid to not be able to try picking a lock with a puncture weapon. I really dont want to go along and do that anyway after I did this work and it's just getting shot down. Im sure the next time i send you one with the key-based pick, you wont like the key i chose to base it off of, even though you said any key originally, or maybe the door that it interacts with will be too wooden or something *sigh*

[Keikan Hiru]

There goes your dream of calling yourself a Dev.

But honestly, picking a lock is a very special action, that should be done with a very special tool and not something you can find laying arround of the floor of the mummy tomb.
Balancing, thats the key word.

[falco1029]

Its either rare item that isnt hard to learn with, or common item that is very hard to learn with, so what's the difference?

[Poots]

ones rare and easy to use, the other is common and hard to use....duh

[falco1029]

im not in the mood, you know what i mean

[Keikan Hiru]

Maybe a different approach, think of this:

"Hello Mr.Smith, I'd like to buy a lockpick of very good quality."
Every character arround now knows what this guy's up to.
Or
"Hello Mr.Smith, Id like to buy 50 daggers of very good quality."
All you've been thinking now is, 'Damn powergamer'.

Or lets say it this way:
A smith needs his smithing tool set to perform smithing actions.
A carpenter needs his carpenter tool set to perform carpeting actions.
A druid needs his mortar and sicle to perform drudic actions.
A thief needs .... just a mass of weapons ?

[falco1029]

Maybe a different approach, think of this:

"Hello Mr.Smith, I'd like to buy a lockpick of very good quality."
Every character arround now knows what this guy's up to.
Or
"Hello Mr.Smith, Id like to buy 50 daggers of very good quality."
All you've been thinking now is, 'Damn powergamer'.

Or lets say it this way:
A smith needs his smithing tool set to perform smithing actions.
A carpenter needs his carpenter tool set to perform carpeting actions.
A druid needs his mortar and sicle to perform drudic actions.
A thief needs .... just a mass of weapons ?

Against your first argument: Yes, that person would be a powergamer since he's obviously either fighting or lockpciking continuously. Non powergaming thieves would keep maybe 2 or 3 daggers or rapiers with them when they plan to pick locks.


Against your second: Lockpicking isnt necessarily a "thief" only thing, it could be used by assassins, guards, mercenaries, etc. A thief is defined by stealing, like a carpenter is defined by making wood items, though he uses tools, and how a druid,, hmm, picks herbs by hand? With no tools? True for their final product they need tools but its like a thief's breaking into the house he wishes to steal from, the first step, and shouldnt need a mess of tools. And if we really wanna argue, we can debate why a good battleaxe cant chop trees and why a warhammer cant break mining rocks in ilalrion .


Anyway, thieving isnt meant to be a craft, per se. Just like how fighting monsters isnt meant to either, and just uses a mass of weapons, and armor if you want (just like the lockpick could be an OPTION, not a necessity)

[Moirear Sian]

-Lockpicking will be done with puncture weapons. If they're ever added, an actual lockpick would of course work better

With a short sword?
That should be limited to daggers or smaller items. I can't see someone picking a lock with a rapier. o_O

-The skill will be based on perception, intelligence, and of course, dexterity

This is good, but I don't like how you make it ridiculously small chance for people with below-18 stats to actually have any success at this.

This reminds me of the ancient situation of having 11 or 12 in a certain stat determining whether you can pick flowers or not. Short: totally blown out of realistic proportion, not to mention making it annoying to play with.

-A grandmaster of the skill with 18 of all the major attributes will have about a 1/3 chance of opening a lock. In other words, it wont be easy

I actually don't like this. It just enforces (like back in the day) that people have to do it many times, all the time, just to become any decent in it. And suck horribly at it unless they're a thorough powergamer.
See what I think about the time, on the next quote below.

-There will be a time of about 5 minutes between when you can attempt to pick locks. If you try before that time, you'll get a message sayign you cant.

5 sounds like alot to me, but I'd say it's alright. Perhaps it should be a bit time-based, you could reference the lockpicker's intelligence here. I'm thinking 3-5 minutes would be decent. Picking a real lock would take anywhere between 10-60 minutes for most people, but since this is a game we don't want to grow grey hairs while waiting on it.
Then again, you could consider that instead of horrid failure rates in picking locks (which is unlogical to me, as we're talking about skill), the use of this talent can determine the lock-picking time (and you could exceed the 5 minutes this way, forcing the character to stand on the spot picking the lock till the deed is done). Just food for thought, but instead of having to try to pick the lock twenty times and failing every time and thus spending 100 (!) minutes real-time picking at the same lock - it could be just one try that takes X minutes, depending on success rates of attributes and skill.

You should also consider that if a lockpicker keeps trying to pick the same lock, the chance would continuously grow larger to successfully pick it because the lockpicker is growing familiar with the lock.

-If you have a low dexterity, you can damage or break your weapon if you fail the pick

This is ok, but it should only affect particularly average or low dexterity, not high ratings.

Im also considering an option of "effort", where if you increase your counter before picking, you'll be more likely to, but you'l lalso be much more likely to damage your weapon, and anything above 1 allows you to damage it even if you succeed the pick. I want some feedback on whether this should be done or not. Oh yeah, your perception will decide how high the counter can go (direct 1:1 ratio).

If you've ever picked locks IRL, you'd be aware this is a bit far-fetched. Breaking your lockpicking tools normally only happens when you royally mess up, and should be considered something like a fumble, or critical failure. Let me re-iterate though: it's not the lockpicking tools that usually break, but improvised lockpicking tools. Yes, if you try it with something like a dagger, chances are there you might break it, but if you have some skill and talent, you shouldn't end up breaking actual lockpicking tools.


Note: I was assuming that chance is also involved, not just fix-rate-by-attributes.

Also, sorry if anybody else wrote any of this, but I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread.

[falco1029]

well you didnt read alot of the changes i made, so im not going to respond to all of those. And btw, a rapier would be a lot mor eliekly to picka lock then a dagger. Think about how locks work, especially older locks, and youll realize a thinner tool like that is a lot better.

[Llama]

A rapier? A long thin sword? are you goign to grab the handle, stand a third of a meter away and expect to pick the lock?

No, I would limit it to short things.

But not weapons, no... lockpicks would be nicer.

[falco1029]

A rapier? A long thin sword? are you goign to grab the handle, stand a third of a meter away and expect to pick the lock?

No, I would limit it to short things.

But not weapons, no... lockpicks would be nicer.

You've never actually picked a lock, have you? Then dont talk to me about what can be done. I suppose I should have said earlie,r ive pciked locks before, i know how it works. And before you ask, no it was nothing illegal, i was goofing around with my door

[Nalzaxx]

At the end of the day, the players would be happier with a lockpick object, the rest of the GM's and Dev's would be happier with a lockpick.

Just cut the crap and code it as a lockpick.

Jeez.

[Moirear Sian]

I actually wasted my time and read the rest of this thread...

The failure rates, calculation of chance of success (being very slim), probability of actual lockpicking tools breaking, and time frames still all seem very silly and contra-productive to playability... as in: having fun with the tool/skill.

Moirear Sian is not amused!

[Misjbar]

Does this mean Eric will play again? *puppy eyes*

Or atleast turn on his MSN?
Anyhow, I do not see much.....Use for this skill, concerning the fact that it will be powergamed, so even the non/bad RPers can basically invade the Grey Haven. Not really my idea of fun/great.

[Moirear Sian]

Well, I rest my case though:

- click-orgies of multiple trial 'n error to pick a lock -> stupid
- skill/talent determines speed of lockpicking -> way more comfortable & logical


Also, someone suggested that an orc would just bust down a door with brute force, rather than picking a lock - which is not too far-fetched, y'know.

I think this whole shtick should be thought through more carefully before adding things that might detract from the game.

[falco1029]

Well, I rest my case though:

- click-orgies of multiple trial 'n error to pick a lock -> stupid
- skill/talent determines speed of lockpicking -> way more comfortable & logical


Also, someone suggested that an orc would just bust down a door with brute force, rather than picking a lock - which is not too far-fetched, y'know.

I think this whole shtick should be thought through more carefully before adding things that might detract from the game.

the time thing wont work well, ill put it that way.


And fine, if everyone wants me to code it that much, you can all pm nitram to give me the code for a key item, and ill do it when i have some spare time. No I wont contact him because i really dont care if it's done now, and since im not officially a developer i have no responsibility to get it. Yes feel free to frame me for my lazy procrastinating view on things, im just in a horrible mood right now.

[martin]

-Lockpicking will be done with puncture weapons. If they're ever added, an actual lockpick would of course work better

I'd rather use ONE weapon for that for now, waiting for lockpicks to be implemented (with would be a no-issue if everyone would use the new client...).

-The skill will be based on perception, intelligence, and of course, dexterity

While the idea of the effect being influenced by perc, int, dex is not bad, I think the idea of it depending entirely on stats and not on a skill is, in my opinion, bad. Please introduce a lockpicking-skill, otherwise you could never get better by practice.

-There will be a time of about 5 minutes between when you can attempt to pick locks. If you try before that time, you'll get a message sayign you cant.

Nice idea but I have no idea how to realize that, and I guess I scripted more things than you did

-If you have a low dexterity, you can damage or break your weapon if you fail the pick

Also, make it dependend on the quality of the tool you're using.

Im also considering an option of "effort", where if you increase your counter before picking, you'll be more likely to, but you'l lalso be much more likely to damage your weapon, and anything above 1 allows you to damage it even if you succeed the pick. I want some feedback on whether this should be done or not. Oh yeah, your perception will decide how high the counter can go (direct 1:1 ratio).

Why not.

Martin

[martin]

interesting, never knew you were a programmer.

He's talking about scripting, not programming.

Martin

[martin]

-you automatically #me picking the lock

Why not make a chance to have that displayed, depending on, e.g., dexterity and the skill?
A good lockpicker can do it silently most of the time, while a newbie lockpicker will cause a lot of noise and attract attention?

Martin

[falco1029]

I'd rather use ONE weapon for that for now, waiting for lockpicks to be implemented (with would be a no-issue if everyone would use the new client...).

Read the post right before yours

While the idea of the effect being influenced by perc, int, dex is not bad, I think the idea of it depending entirely on stats and not on a skill is, in my opinion, bad. Please introduce a lockpicking-skill, otherwise you could never get better by practice.

Note, i said the SKILL will be based on it, by which i mean the cap and the speed that you learn, theres a skil linvolved.

Nice idea but I have no idea how to realize that, and I guess I scripted more things than you did

Read through the thread. And while I think its possible with the gametime, i abandoned it cus itd take me a while.

Also, make it dependend on the quality of the tool you're using.

Make YOU dependant on the quality of the tool you're using.....that sounded wrong....anyway im joking, ill consider that.

[falco1029]

-you automatically #me picking the lock

Why not make a chance to have that displayed, depending on, e.g., dexterity and the skill?
A good lockpicker can do it silently most of the time, while a newbie lockpicker will cause a lot of noise and attract attention?

Martin

Hmm, that sounds good. Ill be redoing the whole thing anyway with a new item if people contact nitram for me, me being the lazy ass bum I am (see my post before yours)

[martin]

As for the time thing: I was wrong, that's possible of course.

Martin

[falco1029]

As for the time thing: I was wrong, that's possible of course.

Martin

hah, where's your experience now!?