thieving

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:01 am

The only thing that worries me about this is the following :

Two guy go out into the woods and duel like crazy trying their best just to raise their skills.

What do you think "thief" characters are going to do? Two of them are going to go off on to some remote part of the island and practice like hell until they "master" the thief skill.

Every last character will be prey on the island, especially the new players.

Durgin · Post by **Durgin** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:05 am

Would there then be a thieving resistance skill?

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:19 am

Arkadia Misella wrote:The only thing that worries me about this is the following :

Two guy go out into the woods and duel like crazy trying their best just to raise their skills.

What do you think "thief" characters are going to do? Two of them are going to go off on to some remote part of the island and practice like hell until they "master" the thief skill.

Every last character will be prey on the island, especially the new players.

I have been thinking about that as well, this would be a major problem.

Jori · Post by **Jori** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:29 am

Well the thieving skill would have to make some kind of cheeck vs. Perception and also the thief resistance skill durgin talked about (which I think is a GREAT idea). But the problem would be just what Arkadia said... So maybe if it could only be used in or nearby the towns or on roads? Or there is a bonus to anti-thieving the less people are around. I mean if someone ran into you in the woods all alone it would be hard for them to pick your pocket because you're not watching a million other people and looking at shops and such. also maybe it would receive a penalty if it was used in the front side of a person. Or maybe you could only use it if you were behind someone. Basically what I'm saying is that there are a million things you could do to make it harder even if there was powergaming.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:58 am

i would suspect the theif skill would be viewed like the dodge skill. Difficult to learn in the first place and once someone got at a high level, the rate they learned it and how would be reviewed by GMs to ensure it was not just somoene out in the middle of the woods.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:11 am

how about making a skill cap? you can only attempt to pickpocket....15? times a day. therefore nobody can go into woods and pg.

like I said, I don't like this idea, but if your going to make it, you better do it right.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:33 am

I dunno, i suppose if they REALLY tried to balance it, and carefully upkept it, it could work. We'll have to see. But if it means my thief cant be a thief until i get lucky 50 times and he's in jail 90% of the time, when he's supposed to already be a pretty good thief, I'll be pissed.

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:36 pm

A thief skill is very hard to balance, many problems were mentioned here (e.g. Arkadia Misella about thief training).
And it is hard to find a realistic way: Some kind of anti-thief skill seems nonsense, it is all about perception (and own thiefing experience!) etc. to notice a stealing attempt.
It is also not very realistic to limit thiefing to some areas or to an amount of stealing attempts per day.

So I would say that thiefing should base on Agility and Dexterity (and maybe Willpower) for the thief against Intelligence and Perception for the victim. But is has to be really difficult to learn/master because I dont wanna travel though Gobiath always fearing a thief. Maybe a thief could only steal items from your belt?

But all this automatic rules undermine the RP. I dont think that a thief would try to RP a bit his stealing attempt when he just has to click on his victim... When someone simple tries to "click-robbing" me, I would kill him without hesitation...

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:07 pm

it has to involve attributes, thats for sure.

Karguk Inkathurg · Post by **Karguk Inkathurg** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:50 pm

Heres a suggestion.

A thief can't rob a thief and if this is true then they would make a thieves guild and noone wants to lose there money for someguy to train.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:07 pm

Here's the RP logic behidn his suggestion:

If you know how to steal from poeple, you use methods. If you see a method in motion upon you, you'll stop it... so you can easily stop another theif if you do the same tricks.

Karturg: "Lose their money"? You can drop on the floor and pick it up again... in a true symbol of Powergaming...

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:46 pm

yeah, it'd be extremely hard to get a good thieving skill set. I dont think it can be done in a way that makes it better than rping. But hey, if they wanna make their game wors,e that's their option

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:09 am

that's the attitude.

Jori · Post by **Jori** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:32 am

It would be possible to do well, but it would take much refinement. I like the idea about gms checking how high skill thieves got their skill. That would help a lot. But it would still take a lot of changing and getting it just right.

Nerian Finera · Post by **Nerian Finera** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:36 pm

yes, it could be refined...but i'm not sure if this would make the situation better...like it was already said in this thread: there would be to much pg's (powergamers)...it should keep pure rp...a skill could destruct the rp atmosphere

for example:
you're standing in the shop, talking to somebody about something you experienced this day. suddenly someone comes in through the door, walks closer, so that he can open his depot (and is standing next to you now)...some time later, when you already left the shop, you recognise, that there's some equipment missing

i think, that wouldn't be a nice expirience...would it?

Caeldrian · Post by **Caeldrian** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:44 pm

It would be annoying and take away from the general rp atmosphere, keep thieving an rp thing. Though i suggest, some of the 'heroes' change their rp to accomodate it. To often do i see this:

Thief walks into town, he has ..shaved his beard and no longer wears the mask he once had.

Mighty hero 200: Hark, i see a thief!

Powergamer 95:Indeed, let us chase him and give him no chance to rp before clouding him! with our mighty maxed out skills.

Little child: I agree, let's chase and kill him, even though we didn't get a good look at his face last time because he was wearing a mask or something.

or

'Wellplayed thief' scans Lord Eyesinbackofhead's 's bag from a distance, checking for any lumps that might suggest items inside.

Lord Eyesinbackofhead: *turns round* Thief! Die!

*Proceeds to chase the thief, clouding him.*

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:03 pm

Well said.

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:23 pm

"Thiefing" in the form of picking pockets is a thing of seconds and the victim doesnt notice it. So in this case RP isn't really necessary.
RPing should be in open robberies or in chases after the thief (like yesterday - much fun!).

When there is such a skill, maybe the victim should always get a message that it was "pocket-picked". If you have high perception or if the thief's skill failed you get this message immediately, when you are a dumb fool, maybe you get "You was robbed!" only after some seconds?

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:27 pm

Mm problem 1

You get pickpocketed by a uber warrior dude powergamer hax0r 5000

He takes your item, you get your message

You have been pick pocketed
You : Hey thief!
Hax0r : And, what are you going to do about it
You have been pick pocketed
You have been pick pocketed
You : Stop please!
You have been pick pocketed
You have been pick pocketed
You have been pick pocketed
Hax0r : Haha this is fun
You have been pick pocketed
You have been pick pocketed
You : Ill call the guard
You have been pick pocketed
You have been pick pocketed
You have been pick pocketed
Haxor : Meh
You have been pick pocketed
You have been pick pocketed

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:31 pm

Caeldrian has sadly to good a point.

suggestions woulld be to add an emte to thieveing like we have with poison. sadly doing that doesn't stop people from becoming bashoholic's. maybe use of item and skill.

the bumbling thief with low skills reaches into someones pocket and an Emote pops up for the victim. as skill gets higher the emotes become less frequent. also the addition of thieveing items help in the process as well, such as 'gloves of thievery.'

just some thoughts, flawed as they are.

Caeldrian · Post by **Caeldrian** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:31 pm

Aristeaus is completely right, players will most likely just abuse the skill and not use any rp with it, like fighting.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:35 pm

true but without a skill to it people are going to ignore you and or kill you while you emote. such round about problems

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:06 pm

@ Aristeaus:
It is sure that there has to be some mechanism to prevent your example. Maybe if you get the message resp. were pick-pocketed you are safe for some time because you are aware of some thiefs around.
What you described shouldn't be possible - pick-pocketing after the victim noticed it; that is more a open robbery (but it's funny to read).
And: An uber strong p0werpwner has big muscles and big fingers, so he shouldn't be able to pick your pockets easily

.

There are dozens of possibilites to moderate a thiefing skill (I made some suggestions), but in some form such skill should be implemented.

Athians idea with that auto-emote sounds interessting but when there is the master chie... eh... thief around, he could steal anything without such warning. And I would really hate it if I have to look at my inventory (belt) all time. BTW: An stealing item besides a dagger is IMO nonsense.

It is all a question how to help starting RP with rules.

PS: Hiding of your name/no. when you are disguised? Eh... no, forget it.

Shrouded Figures · Post by **Shrouded Figures** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:11 pm

maybe limit the skill. something that can't be used in rapid sucession for example. you rob someone without getting caught but have to wait awhile before you can pick your next victim.it'd be a bit more balanced and there wouldn't be super grandmaster thieves in two weeks

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:40 pm

Caeldrian wrote:It would be annoying and take away from the general rp atmosphere, keep thieving an rp thing. Though i suggest, some of the 'heroes' change their rp to accomodate it. To often do i see this:

Thief walks into town, he has ..shaved his beard and no longer wears the mask he once had.

Mighty hero 200: Hark, i see a thief!

Powergamer 95:Indeed, let us chase him and give him no chance to rp before clouding him! with our mighty maxed out skills.

Little child: I agree, let's chase and kill him, even though we didn't get a good look at his face last time because he was wearing a mask or something.

or

'Wellplayed thief' scans Lord Eyesinbackofhead's 's bag from a distance, checking for any lumps that might suggest items inside.

Lord Eyesinbackofhead: *turns round* Thief! Die!

*Proceeds to chase the thief, clouding him.*

that can be reported. But powergaming is hard to prove.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:49 pm

I dont know about most people, but when you try to rob most people, they'll rp just fine. Just avoid robbing new players who wouldnt know what theyre doing (btw is it just me or have new players been more noobish lately?). I know that 99 out of 100 times that i rp stealing, its rp'd well. That other 100th time is forgivable. I know with me it tends to be something like this:

Falco's thief leans against the wall, with a slightly tired look on his face.

falco's thief looks up at the sky.

Someone also looks up

falco's thief , while still looking up, attempts to maneuver his hand into the nearby man's bag and take something

Someone doesnt notice as a few copper are taken, as he's still looking up.
*coppers placed on falco's thief*

I usually do a few more #me's than that, but i dun wanan bore you

thoug granted, you sometimes get something like

falco's thief reaches into the man's bag and attempts to take something

someone else (who's 50 tiles away): Heyz! t3h thief0rz!1 stop steeling or i'z tell guardz!1111

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:45 am

that's so true it's scary.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:05 am

Usually, If the character Fits the profile, and Fits the RP standard by me, and surpasses My characters Detection, You have a good chance of stealing anything from any of my characters. I myself have played a theif as many seem to know, Insane, but his thieving skills are off the chart. Stole from just about everyone in high power

. But i have encountered these bad Rp Hero's who stop something they can't even see. So yes, theives can steal from my characters, but if you get the wrong one, and there is one of them that can detect a theivery in progress, Be ready for a fight

.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:45 am

Ive had ules stolen from before, his eyesight sucks, so he didnt see it. Thats good rp. My thief, who has good eyesight and knows thieving techniques was also attempted to be stolen from once. he caught the person in an instant. That's also good rp. However, if Ules caught that same person, it wouldnt be good rp. And taylor, didnt i try stealing forom onee of your chars once, but then the server crashed? or was that someone else?

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:16 am

Not sure, But if it was, It wasn't taylor

It is possible though. Especially from Dei, who is out of his mind

But with the way the server crashes, it is a possiblity.