Illarion.org

What's your point? It's still evil. It does bad things freely. All Illarion liches are ultimately connected to Moshran, I believe, but while on Illarion-earth, it has a certain degree of self-control and direction, such as Drakhen and more recently Dravish.

Damien would be able to offer a more comprehensive explanation.

Considering Lich are not actually real entities, the description of a Lich would differ considering which game, or fantasy mythos you take it from.

And considering you are obviously unaware of Illarion's mythos King Cobra. It would be a wise decision on your part to stop acting as a know it all.

Two against one, keep it clean boys.

Nah, I enjoy arguing semantics. It's interesting to hear the opinion of a new player (?) on the matter. Welcome to Illa, by the by!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lich

Liches most often are magicians who turn themselves into a Lich, not randomly created like a zombie or skeleton.

Thus, liches do not have master, are sentient corporeal undead, (according to WOTC). They would keep the alignment of the original character, which generally tends to be evil.

There have been cases of 'good' mages lichifying themselves in order to protect a loved one or guard over a powerful item or person.

Y'know Japheth, it could be argued that liches have more in common with Cherga than with Moshran.

King Cobra wrote:'Evil' suggests it has it's own motives. A Lich is merely acting off it's owners will. Therefore it is 'programmed' if you will. A sharply dressed evil villan is very different to a zombie like creature such as a Lich. Zombies can not be described as evil.

WTF? Stop derailing the topic.

@Gishmel - In regards to the "insane" thing, yes, the acts the are produced from what you call "insane" are evil.

Pocal..in that case I agree, the Lich is evil. I was refering to the summoned Lich, or an undead soul. Undead souls can not be described as evil. Too many video games have reinforced this falsity. Villans are created by nature not nurture. An evil person must have a motivation to be evil, no one is 'born evil'. A zombie is a product of it's master, therefore the zombie is merely a puppet, a tool. Same with the Lich I was referring to. A gun can not be described as evil.

And Nalzaxx, I do not act.

I refuse to rise to that.

Villans are created by nature not nurture

This would mean that villains are born evil, and regardless of the way that they are raised or taught throughout their lifetimes, they were always destined to be evil.

Well if you believe in destiny and fate, aye that would be right.
I play my villians who do get some success, a few started wars, others grew into influential bad boys, with a conscience. They do not think what they are doing as "wrong" rather everyone else is wrong and they must convince others. Normally it starts peacefully enough, but when messages do not get across and people begin to realize what they are up too and reject them my villians lash out to keep themselves alive... Like Jacob, he wasn't "bad" he actually did more good then most others, however many thought him a spy so he was "forced" to try and take over silverbrand ... Well that and in his character he thinks he is blessed by Moshran to be this grand warrior

Well that and in his character he thinks he is blessed by Moshran to be this grand warrior

lol, i would count that as VERY bad, rofl.

That would be like believing you are a blessed warrior by Satan

Actually no before moshrans accident he was a great and loved warrior, his kindness and sense of justice earned him the love of the younger gods and he leds the armies to battle etc etc.
I think its a rather interesting character idea, pre war moshran is a very ignored side of the dark god imo
Brian

Before Satan became the devil he was an angel called Lucifer, the lightbringer. He was the most loved angel and gods best one.

And who praise him as that angel today?

Jacob's philosophy is basically, Moshran saved everyone by beating Mahdrook alone. He was scarred then everyone turned on him, winced and gasped when they saw his ruined face, no longer was he able to bed women he used to be able to. Moshran's anger was well deserved, then Moshran was jailed and freed, yet Moshran does not start another war while still free. Only foolish things like Dravish do things in his name, which is what Jacob hates, as he thinks Dravish is just a gimp, well, after seeing the insane lich tosses molotov cocktails everywhere I think anyone would.

Ah but i personally find illarions gods more believable than that story
Seriously though i suppose a satan worshiper might, we have orcs and villans who follow moshran as a religion. I am sure they look at moshran as the light and the dark.
I would play it as such any way
Brian

Alright, i give in. Here's my two cents even though i said i wouldn't get involved.

Sure, Villians are thought evil. But black, white: Good, Evil. Both are each point of views. Look. If you were raised to think that blue was red and red was blue. Would Blue be red and Red blue? Contrary to most thoughts, the way the characters childhood had progressed determines his mind set. Let me give you three offseting princibles of my characters. One "Hero", One "Mercenary", and one "Villian".

Hero

Sylathen. Probably the greatest Lizard Paladin of Zelphia around. Honorable to the death and Religous as hell. His Honor led his life. Before his journey to the Isle. He was a weapons teacher. He taught other fighters to weild swords, axes, staves. His life was always under a strict code of honor. Once under Stephen's command. His honor kicked in and gave his life to stephen. He followed every word stephen gave him without resistance. You would call this blind following, But in his eyes, It was Honorable. After Stephen died. Sylathen did his best to keep the Knights alive. He even fought back against dravish, tried to recruit members. But it was a time of war. There were no means for distinctions. Once Stephen returned, He no longer felt his need to keep the Knighthood Alive, so he went to fullfill his duty as a White Paladin, And went to battle the crypts and legions of monsters; Alone.

Mercenary

Taylor Windslasher is probably one of the most controversial characters in most people's eyes. You think i act him way above his age, and way above his strength capacities and such. But let me set this straight. Taylor was sent to sages when he was young,His mother got rid of him after Dominik left because she could not keep him safe accordingly. As such he was ridiculed. The sages cut his elven ears, Dyed his blue hair black and told him he was human. All taylor thought about was getting away, living in the forest, or on open ground. Living on his own terms and not on the Sages. His symbols are the result of a torture the sages commited everytime taylor did something wrong. They restrcit his magic use of that rune, unless it has sunlight(AKA: No sunlight, No Magic.) When he arrived on the Isle. The magic was nearly gone. So his newly found Brother, taught him to fight. He used cheap daggers and leather armor. Lighter than light. He pushed himself beyond his limits. Training as hard as he could to be the Best warlock, so no one could tell him what to do, and he could protect everyone from those who wish to harm them, As he was abused by the other students for being too weak to resist. This gives him an angry tempermant but a good heart. He is neither black nor white. But Grey. he is just a hard shell with a soft heart. As to his intelegence. If you had been reading magic, history, fiction, chornicles, druidry, rune lore, alchemy, and herbology books your entire life, wouldn't you be smarter than the other people your age?

Villian

We all know this one. Dei. Dei was raised as a street rat untill he was 7. A serinjah in heart but a theif in act. He was a theif. put into prison at the age of 9 for stealing from the town guardsmen. Getting his yellow circle on both arms marking him a theif. At 7 years old, he learned of Ronagan. How he helped the serinjah and how he helps Theives and Assassins in their struggle against the laws. He studyed all he could about ronagan. After he got out of jail, He joined a group of students learning from a master Assassin. Crazy bastard he was. Insane as you would call it. Attacked the kids with deadly force. But this was to get them to fight back with the same intense fury. Teaching them to work as a team to succesfully complete a goal for the better of the team. He was raised to kill. And Raised to love aswell. This made him an odd serinjah. As they do not marry. But Dei loved one of the others in his group. A girl, nearly as deadly as he was.The master got to the point where he would not fight them, but they would have to fight themselves. He was raised under Ronagans wing, and the teachings of an Assassin. Getting the blue lighting for assinations. He was a marked man, thus being banned to where he resides now. He knows nothing but theivery, Ronagan, and Assasinating. Thus people see him as "Black" or a "Villian"



I hope this puts into perspective the Black, White, and grey theorum.

Japheth wrote:

Villans are created by nature not nurture

This would mean that villains are born evil, and regardless of the way that they are raised or taught throughout their lifetimes, they were always destined to be evil.

Yeah, I got it mixed up, I meant nurture not nature.

If you were raised to think that blue was red and red was blue. Would Blue be red and Red blue?

But would you argue that Red was Blue and Blue was red, or would you sit back and not care. I feel it is a mixture of both nature and nurture. I don't think we are born empty shells until our parents mold us into our future selfs.

This can be argued over and over again, but it won't be solved no this forum.

You guys are killing me with this overthought stuff.

Look, Illarion is based on western medieval times with some fantasy blended in. So it would make sense that a definite good/evil black/white exists. Go play Lao Tzu somewhere else.

Ghorn wrote:Before Satan became the devil he was an angel called Lucifer, the lightbringer. He was the most loved angel and gods best one.

And who praise him as that angel today?

Luciferians?

Bloodhearte wrote:Go play Lao Tzu somewhere else.

I don't understand..

You know, Lao Tzu. The guy who spoke a million words about not speaking a lot.

Good observation.

Looking for a villain job! Villain for hire!

Skills: killin', stealin', lyin', cheatin'.