Right my humble thoughts and proposed solutions to the wipe

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:50 am

Ah, the almighty "my joined date and player number is lower than yours!!!!", that automatically makes you all God, please dont spite us.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:50 am

Wiergraf wrote:I too am a player from "years ago", and I would hate to see my character's history destroyed. Wiergraf has evolved into quite an entertaining character for me to play, and his personality is based on the past actions he has been in. I also have quite a lot of things planned for Wiergraf, and I would hate for him to restart at a moment like this.

Everyone doesen't want to lose a part of a character, I can understand that. But:

A) Its a game, these things happen, especially in online games
B) Theres nothing you can't recreate from a new start
C) sometimes, we dont all get what we want in life.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:51 am

Exactly, you joined earlier, than you quit, and came crying back, and then think your opinion is automatically better. You hasve yet to say how you can't do the same thing with making a new character that you can with restarting an old one.

Wiergraf · Post by **Wiergraf** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:52 am

The Returner wrote: C) sometimes, we dont all get what we want in life.

Same goes for you too.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:52 am

Your history in this game does not make your character. You do.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:53 am

Well if your arguement is "I have been here longer then you so your opinion doesn't count" then it doesn't matter because I have been playing this game for 3 years. I did a start over and now I am happy with what I have.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:53 am

Cliu Beothach wrote:Your history in this game does not make your character. You do.

Only if you are a bad rper. Your character should make themself through experiences and a little bit from your predefined history.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:54 am

falco1029 wrote:Exactly, you joined earlier, than you quit, and came crying back, and then think your opinion is automatically better. You hasve yet to say how you can't do the same thing with making a new character that you can with restarting an old one.

Some characters have planned, thought out storylines with names, places, dates, and other things that would have to be completely and entirely changed with a new character, these are backrounds, not "memories" as it were, and are probably as if not more important then time spent in game, as alot of players work hard for these things.

Fooser wrote:Ah, the almighty "my joined date and player number is lower than yours!!!!", that automatically makes you all God, please dont spite us.

I didn't say I was god, but I know a little more about this game, and about gaming and RP in general then you do I think. Please don't turn this into a flame war, its too important to waste on another ill-gotten illarion board fight.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:55 am

falco1029 wrote:
Cliu Beothach wrote:Your history in this game does not make your character. You do.
Only if you are a bad rper. Your character should make themself through experiences and a little bit from your predefined history.

Cliu is probably one of the better RPers on this board, Your character backround makes your characters, experiences are what makes the game. Don't mix the two, otherwise you end up with a backroundless character that changes every week.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:56 am

The Returner wrote:
falco1029 wrote:Exactly, you joined earlier, than you quit, and came crying back, and then think your opinion is automatically better. You hasve yet to say how you can't do the same thing with making a new character that you can with restarting an old one.
Some characters have planned, thought out storylines with names, places, dates, and other things that would have to be completely and entirely changed with a new character, these are backrounds, not "memories" as it were, and are probably as if not more important then time spent in game, as alot of players work hard for these things.

I'm sorry, and you can't change the names of the places and people a bit? That ruins the whole thing for you? If it is, then why should we restart just because you're picky?

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:58 am

The Returner wrote:
falco1029 wrote:
Cliu Beothach wrote:Your history in this game does not make your character. You do.
Only if you are a bad rper. Your character should make themself through experiences and a little bit from your predefined history.
Cliu is probably one of the better RPers on this board, Your character backround makes your characters, experiences are what makes the game. Don't mix the two, otherwise you end up with a backroundless character that changes every week.

You should note that nonproven facts are opinions, meaning my opinion was that making your character rather than having them making themself is bad rp. I stand by that. Of course you need a backround, that defines early personality and history, but the experience in game defines the personality much more.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:58 am

The Returner wrote:but I know a little more about this game, and about gaming and RP in general then you do I think.

Oh, that's definetly a given.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:58 am

falco1029 wrote:
The Returner wrote:
falco1029 wrote:Exactly, you joined earlier, than you quit, and came crying back, and then think your opinion is automatically better. You hasve yet to say how you can't do the same thing with making a new character that you can with restarting an old one.
Some characters have planned, thought out storylines with names, places, dates, and other things that would have to be completely and entirely changed with a new character, these are backrounds, not "memories" as it were, and are probably as if not more important then time spent in game, as alot of players work hard for these things.
I'm sorry, and you can't change the names of the places and people a bit? That ruins the whole thing for you? If it is, then why should we restart just because you're picky?

I sometimes use the same names and backrounds for many games, to have multiple names and accounts is bulky, plus some people find it hard to make up names, let along the names of people int heir backround, in addition, if they have to start over with a new character, the entire story cannot be the same, otherwise it feels false to have someone with a differant name, living someone elses life. Try to think things through a little bit better.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:58 am

Only if you are a bad rper. Your character should make themself through experiences and a little bit from your predefined history.

You hold the ultimate decision. If an orc attacks you, you can decide to hate them, fear them, or know their power and use that. Your character is NOT forced upon, and if you think it is...then that is a bad rper.

Wiergraf · Post by **Wiergraf** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:58 am

falco1029 wrote:
Cliu Beothach wrote:Your history in this game does not make your character. You do.
Only if you are a bad rper. Your character should make themself through experiences and a little bit from your predefined history.

Exactly.

There were many times that I would have chosen a different path or action for Wiergraf, but because of past events, he would have most likely made a choice different than mine. So I followed through with what Wiergraf WOULD do, not always what I wanted him to do. If it weren't for many of the things that happened to Wiergraf a year or two ago ingame, he would probably be a citizen of a town and never part of the Bloodskulls, but because those actions did happen that affected Wiergraf, he joined the Skulls for revenge. That was something that wasnt my first option as the player, but it was what Wiergraf would do.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:00 am

Wiergraf wrote:
falco1029 wrote:
Cliu Beothach wrote:Your history in this game does not make your character. You do.
Only if you are a bad rper. Your character should make themself through experiences and a little bit from your predefined history.
Exactly.

There were many times that I would have chosen a different path or action for Wiergraf, but because of past events, he would have most likely made a choice different than mine. So I followed through with what Wiergraf WOULD do, not always what I wanted him to do. If it weren't for many of the things that happened to Wiergraf a year or two ago ingame, he would probably be a citizen of a town and never part of the Bloodskulls, but because those actions did happen that affected Wiergraf, he joined the Skulls for revenge. That was something that wasnt my first option as the player, but it was what Wiergraf would do.

What cliu ment was you define the backround, not the personality traits.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:02 am

The Returner wrote:I sometimes use the same names and backrounds for many games, to have multiple names and accounts is bulky, plus some people find it hard to make up names, let along the names of people int heir backround, in addition, if they have to start over with a new character, the entire story cannot be the same, otherwise it feels false to have someone with a differant name, living someone elses life. Try to think things through a little bit better.

It isn't very hard to come up with say five different names, and the name of a place (the latter of which i never even do). Again, if you feel akward playing a similar character than we shouldn't have to suffer because you're picky.

Cliu wrote:You hold the ultimate decision. If an orc attacks you, you can decide to hate them, fear them, or know their power and use that. Your character is NOT forced upon, and if you think it is...then that is a bad rper.

Oh, so a character's past and personality WOULDN't decide, that, the OOC person would decide based on their OWN thoughts, that's truly great rp (for any idiots out there that's sarcasm)

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:02 am

ANd the traits too. You have COMPLETE control over you character.

that, the OOC person would decide based on their OWN thoughts, that's truly great rp

Yes YOU have CONTROL! If you want yoru char to float around and have others decide the way he acts, then fine.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:03 am

falco1029 wrote:
The Returner wrote:I sometimes use the same names and backrounds for many games, to have multiple names and accounts is bulky, plus some people find it hard to make up names, let along the names of people int heir backround, in addition, if they have to start over with a new character, the entire story cannot be the same, otherwise it feels false to have someone with a differant name, living someone elses life. Try to think things through a little bit better.
It isn't very hard to come up with say five different names, and the name of a place (the latter of which i never even do). Again, if you feel akward playing a similar character than we shouldn't have to suffer because you're picky.

You haven't seen me be picky yet.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:03 am

Cliu Beothach wrote:ANd the traits too. You have COMPLETE control over you character.

Yes, your concious mind does have basic control over it, a virtual vcharacter has no mind. That exists within you, and a good rper takes the character's mind which they formed within their own, and use that, not the OOC mind.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:04 am

The Returner wrote:
falco1029 wrote:
The Returner wrote:I sometimes use the same names and backrounds for many games, to have multiple names and accounts is bulky, plus some people find it hard to make up names, let along the names of people int heir backround, in addition, if they have to start over with a new character, the entire story cannot be the same, otherwise it feels false to have someone with a differant name, living someone elses life. Try to think things through a little bit better.
It isn't very hard to come up with say five different names, and the name of a place (the latter of which i never even do). Again, if you feel akward playing a similar character than we shouldn't have to suffer because you're picky.
You haven't seen me be picky yet.

Great counterargument, my point remains valid, yours needs further support. Your debate skills are lacking.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:05 am

I just no one moans when the GM's make this decision for us. As really we can argue rp abilitys and character creation till the wipe happens. It is not changeing the fact we need to think of a few solutions. Yes no one is going to agree yes they may get flamed or degenerate into flames. How ever maybe a gm will read them an use some of it in the decision it appears they are invetiably going to have to make for us. As we cant keep a topic rolling, far more entertaining to pick apart people's views on roleplaying, wave our years of this playing this game around and debate how a character is formed.
To all i offended with this, tough...we need to get this back on track.
Brian

P.s Being a DM bears no relevance to what is happening here, I have dmed a variety of games and settings in different formats. Personally never anything with 100's of players in a 3-4 year old world that cant reach a consensus amongst them selves of how to progress

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:06 am

Yes, and this is what your character concept comes from. The message you want to send out, the theme. you CREATE the concept and execute it.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:07 am

Cliu Beothach wrote:Yes, and this is what your character concept comes from. The message you want to send out, the theme. you CREATE the concept and execute it.

You stil lhold the decision, but a good rper chooses based on the character, not themself, that's what i am saying, and this should come from character experiences.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:08 am

Pendar wrote: P.s Being a DM bears no relevance to what is happening here, I have dmed a variety of games and settings in different formats. Personally never anything with 100's of players in a 3-4 year old world that cant reach a consensus amongst them selves of how to progress

I've been specificly involved with game development of both P&P and Online games, from graphical to Telnet to Forum, I've encountered situations of server migration before.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:09 am

yes, but in the beginning you have a basic concept or a theme that you intend for this character to be. If you want to throw in motifs and symbols, all the better. The point being is you have complete control over your character even before he is put ingame.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:10 am

Keep in mind Pendar, Returner has a history of bsing.
Gms make a decision as it seems there is no way we as a community can agree on anything.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:12 am

Cliu Beothach wrote:yes, but in the beginning you have a basic concept or a theme that you intend for this character to be. If you want to throw in motifs and symbols, all the better. The point being is you have complete control over your character even before he is put ingame.

Yes, but this is irrelevant to what I have been saying.

original argument:

Cliu Beothach wrote:
Your history in this game does not make your character. You do.

Only if you are a bad rper. Your character should make themself through experiences and a little bit from your predefined history.

My point right there is proven. The history beforehand is based on how you want the character, but it is still seperate from yourself, and the character would make different decisions then you, meaning the character';s history makes the decision, even if you created the original history. of course things since then should also be included. This obviously gets very complex and I dont care to break it down further.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:12 am

Garett Gwenour wrote:Keep in mind Pendar, Returner has a history of bsing.
Gms make a decision as it seems there is no way we as a community can agree on anything.

Either make up your mind, or stop debating. If you want to debate personalities, I'll give you the emails of players of this game, game development teams, players of other online games, who can vouch for me.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:13 am

The Returner wrote:Either make up your mind, or stop debating. If you want to debate personalities, I'll give you the emails of players of this game, game development teams, players of other online games, who can vouch for me.

Either answer all arguments given to you, or stop debating. I could probably go back and find a few you've missed of mine alone.