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Lrmy
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Post by Lrmy »

Noradur wrote:stop spamming.

Julius is not that wrong. I looked up the most skilled fighters active this week.

And the most skilled are american or british.

then comes a long list of NPCs between and after that there are highly trained german characters.
Whats this about British or American?........ -,-

Further, I really don't know who was on that list that would be American in the top 10 player characters.
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Noradur
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Post by Noradur »

the second highest playercharacter in slashing is american..

the highest in parry is american
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Lrmy
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Post by Lrmy »

Noradur wrote:the second highest playercharacter in slashing is american..

the highest in parry is american
Check the temple members :P and I really don't know who these people are....they must be hiding real well.
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Kamilar
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Post by Kamilar »

Show us the list, Noradur! :D
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Lance Thunnigan
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Post by Lance Thunnigan »

What is this? 'Germans' vs. 'Americans' or some shit?
Jeeeez.

I love everyone.
Spread the love people.

*Offers sibanac*
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Arien Edhel
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Post by Arien Edhel »

I don't like how this discussion slides!
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Noradur
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Post by Noradur »

then lock it, or we got another patriotistic flame war
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Arien Edhel
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Post by Arien Edhel »

You know I'm an optimist and I hope a warning will do. :wink:
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Avalyon el'Hattarr
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Post by Avalyon el'Hattarr »

Greisling wrote:I mostly agree with Korm. Nice explanation.


Furthermore I want to comment on something:
I have the impression that some of the POs of Temple members (or POs closely related to the Temple) still do not try to think about their actions; I have the impressoon that some of them hardly reflect what the consequences of their actions are.
Many of their actions - no matter if done under the flag of the Temple or as individuals - seems to be little planned but being done out of a clear blue sky.

Comments like: "I have not read the all the postings here but do comment anyway" indicate a different attitude to this affair and underline my impression.


Finally:
Right, the current strength of the Temple as well as the political situation in game are a prodcut of Roleplay.
Still, since those players seem not to be able to use their powers in an adequate way (overall inactivity; blue-sky-acting; abusing the character strengths), interventions of the GMs seem nothing but reasonable.
I don't know who exactly you think of being a temple member.. think again, you may be wrong ;)
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AlexRose
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Post by AlexRose »

I'm pretty sure I know the best active mage and fighter ;) .

Lemme guess: Mage is Romanian and fighter is English?
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Noradur
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Post by Noradur »

haven't looked up mages, but fighters: yes

at least for normal & active chars
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AlexRose
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Post by AlexRose »

Somehow I don't think you need to look up the mage for everyone to know who it is :P .
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Korm Kormsen
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Post by Korm Kormsen »

we should recognize, that not everybody is equal. but keeping in mind, that everybody should have equal rights.
as i wrote somewhere above, i think, that part of the problem are different stiles of play.
we should concentrate on thoughts, to give every style of play maximum freedom of expression with minimum adverse side effects to play of others.

maybe the idea, to make skillgain difficult, to discourage powergaming should be thought over.
it takes many, many hours to make a more or less decent fighter. (or mage, i suppose)
so there is a very small minority of players, who invest a lot of time, ending up with "demigods", that can vence three or more enemies singlehanded.

if the strongest fighters could be venced by two average fighters, they would automatically should get a little more cautious in their behaviour.
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Mr. Cromwell
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Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Korm Kormsen wrote:we should recognize, that not everybody is equal. but keeping in mind, that everybody should have equal rights.
as i wrote somewhere above, i think, that part of the problem are different stiles of play.
we should concentrate on thoughts, to give every style of play maximum freedom of expression with minimum adverse side effects to play of others.

maybe the idea, to make skillgain difficult, to discourage powergaming should be thought over.
it takes many, many hours to make a more or less decent fighter. (or mage, i suppose)
so there is a very small minority of players, who invest a lot of time, ending up with "demigods", that can vence three or more enemies singlehanded.

if the strongest fighters could be venced by two average fighters, they would automatically should get a little more cautious in their behaviour.
That would be unfair in the sense that many craftsmen are pretty good fighters as well, and it would basically take away any advantage of being a dedicated fighter (at least in my opinion) instead of being your average miner-blacksmith-shoemaker-weekend warrior. Or then your proposal is implemented, but dedicated warriors should be given a kick-ass combat bonus against the multitalenters (Meaning that one dedicated warrior equals two multitalenters. If you take away the advantages of focusing on fighting skills, that *must* be compensated for somehow). Warriors already get shafted alot, without being killed by noob craftsmen. :wink:

I would rather lessen the skill effect of death, because I assume that this is what pisses the craftsmen off in particular. Or then people should just be responsible with who they piss off ingame. :wink:
Thats the diffrence between YOU and me!
You try to upset some one in cause you dont speak thems language.
I do not care for your language, your skincolor your religion, sex or sexpractics as long that you know to respekt the others.
The text you written let me gues you denunciate the german speaker in that way as you told by your selve.
Is it your way to show respekt?
Do you think whe find a solution TOGETHER to have fun in FUTURE if whe try to upsed an other?
Or cant you behave diffrent?

I hope whe can behave with more respekt in future.

@Cromwell
By the way it seams also an problem of the comunity that some people takes only one batch out of an whole text they dislike didnt read the text ready use a lot of phantasy to answer later things no one have written.
No, that is actually not the way I show respect.
When showing respect, I evaluate the the person's actions or opinions and for me the language or any other personal aspects of the person are irrelevant. As for the language issue, I have actually used four languages for roleplaying thus far, including 'your' language. You see, some of don't have the priviledge of using 'our' language at all (in understandable manner) while roleplaying.

The opinions of some of the (mainly) german speaking people here were not worth of much respect (because they were not really fair, logical or coherent, thus deserving the correct amount of ridicule and to be shot down). The language or me speaking or not speaking it was not the issue itself here, it was that people with 'opinion X' belonged to the group which speaks the language that was. This time I judged 'shock' or 'annoying' as quite good methods of pointing out the 'fairness' of the situation in case of: 'what if we turn the tables, do you still like the logic and think it is fair?'

And behold, they did not. Sound of reason wins!

I have all the respect in the world for people (okay, I exaggerate. Most of the time I don't care enough :wink: ) 'till they start to spew out nonsensical, unfair things ('lets have the gamemasters play favorites' and whatever).

As for taking one thing out of context like I assume you are insinuating, you did basically tell players to just 'accept it' if the gamemasters ended a random group of players without a due cause, and while you are naturally entitled for that opinion, don't expect me to be overly courteous when I let you know how I feel about 'your' opinion. So, I respect your right to have the opinion and not the opinion itself. Naturally I try my best to coerce you to giving up on those 'bad' opinions. :wink:


@Noradur
I like you, and thus I'll try my best to keep an open mind about the quest. I hope you know though, that you'll risk losing several players for real (not yours truly) if you decide to do something stupid with the quest. :wink:
Last edited by Mr. Cromwell on Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Korm Kormsen
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Post by Korm Kormsen »

because I assume that this is what pisses the craftsmen off in particular.
frankly, what disturbs me most, at being clouded after minimum RP, is not the loss of items or skills, but the rape-like feeling.
would be unfair in the sense that many craftsmen are pretty good fighters as well
yes, you got a point there.

but, there is a difference:
a crafter needs not to annoy/damage others, to do his thing.

and i think, that is the whole point, we have to find a solution for. how fighters can have their fun, without pissing off everybody else.
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Mr. Cromwell
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Post by Mr. Cromwell »

That feeling is rather universal, think. At least I always hate it when someone attacks my character or clouds him in the middle of sentence. I it my opinion that 'those' kind of killings should be left for the gamemasters. However, I stress the fact that craftsmen should take some responsibility in the dyings as well. We have plenty of people who simply don't know their place and start screaming for bloody human rights when someone tells them to do something (while being pointed at with a sword or not).

Sometimes, correct decision would maybe be to obey and shut up, instead of always trying to question and undermine authority, especially when the authority is not known for being too gentle. :wink:
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pharse
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Post by pharse »

I would rather lessen the skill effect of death
Then you'd be surpried what probably will come inevitably :o

I quite agree with you but I'm just a small scripter...
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Korm Kormsen
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Post by Korm Kormsen »

We have plenty of people who simply don't know their place and start screaming for bloody human rights when someone tells them to do something
yes, that is another point, that influences.

so, let us suppose, that most of the players in future would learn to behave medieval.
what then?
it is a typical medieval behaviour, if a guard asks for a bribe, to not pk a crafter. (Deuce seems to be specialized in that)
it would be the unique logical consequence for the crafters, to seek a better living in another town.
but that is not possible, because no char can exist for long without the services of TB.
would we like, that every town got all services/merchands?
then it might well be, that a goverment like that of your char and his guards would be managing a ghost town.
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Greisling
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Post by Greisling »

pharse wrote:
I would rather lessen the skill effect of death
Then you'd be surpried what probably will come inevitably :o

I quite agree with you but I'm just a small scripter...

Does it mean that the Proposal Board was successful in a way? :)
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Mr. Cromwell
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Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Korm Kormsen wrote:
We have plenty of people who simply don't know their place and start screaming for bloody human rights when someone tells them to do something
yes, that is another point, that influences.

so, let us suppose, that most of the players in future would learn to behave medieval.
what then?
it is a typical medieval behaviour, if a guard asks for a bribe, to not pk a crafter. (Deuce seems to be specialized in that)
it would be the unique logical consequence for the crafters, to seek a better living in another town.
but that is not possible, because no char can exist for long without the services of TB.
would we like, that every town got all services/merchands?
then it might well be, that a goverment like that of your char and his guards would be managing a ghost town.
Erm, when it comes to a 'ghost town', you should understand that TB is (and has been most of the time even without my character or his rule) a 'ghost town'. It is not exclusive clique of characters that are willing to play along the same rules like the population of every other town, and thus it has very little population of it's 'own'. If you have ideas regarding how to change 'that' (as it seems that 6+ years of gaming have not helped..) I would be more than happy to hear it. I understand that TB might have some advantages (and thus, I've ooc-decided not to grief people and forbid any group from coming in there ig, unless there is a war or something), but it has it's disadvantages too, so it's not as clear cut as you make it sound like.

If the behaviour would be truly medieval, the craftsman would probably pay and go back to work, in order to make up for the money he lost (and maybe try and charge the bribe back from his unlucky customer on the price of the product :wink: ). It's not like it was an easy decision to just pack your things and leave to an unknown place and start anew. Most people will just curse and deal with it, even in today's world (paying for 'protection' or bribes is not too uncommon, even for big companies when they go to certain areas). Luckily there is at least one town where the ruler is willing to go at least a little medieval on people..

Besides, nobody has even tried to complain about Deuce or anyone to people who are above him.. They might get lucky, who knows. It's a two way street, and when a government is willing to let certain citizens treated badly, it may do the same to a guard who steps too far over the line. Depends on who was robbed, and maybe on the fact if they have the brains to bribe those who rank high enough to make a difference.. *hint hint* :wink:

Are harassed by a guard?
Bribe the lieutenant. (or anyone more superior)
Are harassed by the lieutenant?
Bribe the captain.
Are harassed by the captain?
Bribe the chancellor.
Are harassed by the chancellor?
Bribe the governor.
Are harassed by the governor?
I guess you are not wanted in the town anyway. :wink:

It might be a new thing for some, but it might be a good idea to get in good terms with the government to avoid any unnecesary troubles. Will work much better than "Omg unfair my rights have been violated u nastyevil dictator, now protect me lol!". Just like in russia. Anyone can interprete the law the way they want to, but as long as you are pals with Putin, there is no reason to worry about the tax inspectors.. :P
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Greisling
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Post by Greisling »

...if there would be some sort of working and regularly present government in Trolls Bane... :roll: :wink:
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Mr. Cromwell
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Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Ocasionally present (hopefully more so by the end of the week), but currently reachable via PM. :wink:
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Mr. Cromwell
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Post by Mr. Cromwell »

"..OMG, this is sooo unfair, we all were like clouded by warriors for like nothing. Something should be like done about this! This is totally like unfair man! Like, nerf the warriors or something! And silas, like.. nerf him too! :x :x :x "

The inevitable result of that. :P
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Korm Kormsen
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Post by Korm Kormsen »

Are harassed by the xxxx?
I guess you are not wanted in the town anyway.
i can not deny, that your reasoning fits to the setting of the world.

but, remembering the full bundle of unsolved problems, the solution for the "others" seems to be, to push and beg the staff, to let us put up enough different simple merchants, to be independent from trollsbane.
plus bribe and extort the developers, to give us guards, that shield us from visits of your officials.

(but, honestly, i had hoped for a somewhat "cleaner" solution)
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Mr. Cromwell
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Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Knowing how things get done here and what rumours I have heard in regards to the GM-plans concerning TB, you will probably succeed. If that makes you happy, well.. enjoy it. I can say that right now, I'm not gonna weep for it, but I will deposit Ed's money on a Greenbriarian bank account.

Then 'the economic players' can all powergame and build houses without any interference (which you for some reason seem to consider much more noble goal than cybering or 'pure rp' :wink: ), when you become independent from the evil opressive yoke of Trollsbane. But Onions and tomatoes shall still remain exclusive for Nordmark, naturally. :wink: :roll: As that is not a dependancy for others..

Seriously, I'm slowly getting a bit annoyed. What exactly do you want to be done? You do understand, that even if Edward fired all the guards that serve currently and replaced them with some knighthood-pussies, you would probably be robbed even more violently (like always) and with (at the very least) similar certainty (as robbing or demanding of bribes from craftsmen probably is not every day occurence now) than at the moment? If anything, the chance to bribe guards is a way out, when compared to some of the old bandits..

What is do the 'economic players' consider annoying anyway? Any delay, loss or interferance on their "sim-city/who wants to be a millionaire?" game? What do you exactly want, Korm?

What do you want me to say? Okay, since the loss of a couple coins drives the people who play this game like an excel-chart over the edge, I'll just ask everyone to leave 'the economic players' alone? Give me something to work with here. :wink:
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Korm Kormsen
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Post by Korm Kormsen »

Onions and tomatoes shall still remain exclusive for Nordmark, naturally
we can not plant tomatoes. neither cabbage. and nothing, not even onions, is only planted in nordmark.
Seriously, I'm slowly getting a bit annoyed
wellcome to the club!
as robbing or demanding of bribes from craftsmen probably is not every day occurence now
i can not judge that. since my chars got assaulted so frequently in bane, tjalf has been very seldom in bane. last time, when our chars talked.
i must admit, on that occasion he did not get robbed.
on their "sim-city/who wants to be a millionaire?" game?
sim city? maybe. millionaire? tjalf plus the state coffers of nordmark count less than one hundred silver actually.
how much you got?
What do you exactly want, Korm?
since i have not created a single fighter or mage char, since i play illa, i obviously would like to have my chars be able, to go around without armour, to chat peacefully with the neighbours, to plant or craft, to wield hammers and scytes instead of axes and swords, to even build sim city, if i like.
what i want as much, as a rusty nail in my foot, is having my chars armed to the teeth, because some bored guy might decide any moment, to go and pk some chars.
and i mean PK in capital letters. nearly every time, one of my chars got clouded, it was with a bare minimum of seemingly premade emotes.

but that what i want, i could not have since the creation of hellbriar.

and, please, don't start the bullsheet about fearless barbarians and such.
for me barbarians are primitive, but they are no schwarzenegger-conans.
I'll just ask everyone to leave 'the economic players' alone? Give me something to work with here.
you reread most of my posts above, and you would see, that i try to find a solution for all. not just for sim city.

but since you obviously ignore that, i can only say, that you can do nothing, because your char is just a powerless frontman for the ingame powers, that cause my discomfort.

without permadeath plus a witchhunt there is nothing to do ingame.
we, we all together, maybe could make something better, by trying to find common ooc solutions.

since i do not see the will to try something like that, the only thing, I can do, is arm my chars to the teeth, put them on guard, instead of crafting, and await, if and when one of "your" guys decides to visit northmark...

enough written from my side.
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Mr. Cromwell
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Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Erm, just for your information, the only time I have robbed anyone has been on a secondary character who pickpocketed someone. The times I have clouded someone during this year+ are probably countable with the fingers of one hand, maybe even if you include the accidental ones (at least two).

As for a powerless frontman, possible. Then again, not everything which glitters is gold and all that..
I guess, that from us two, I should know better. :wink:

I don't know, if you have been seriously unlucky or what. My character has never ever been tried to rob (even now when most of the people I run into are just numbers), and I spend most of my time in or around TB. There was a string of robberies inside the town some time before Edward got power (from what I know about discussions with others, the same characters were robbed at sword point two times a day by different people..) and it is possible that you just got unlucky.

Well, that is indeed something that is out of my control; simply because, powerless frontman ingame or not, is all about player attitudes. Similiarly when a rich and powerful craftsman would decide to ruin everyone's business by handing stuff out for free (seen that) or selling them for nominal cost, there is nothing that can be done about that. At least, anything that I can do. You can be sure, that personally I don't really favor brainless ctrl-clicking (which is why I do that maybe even too seldom. You might find it hard to believe, but I'm really a rather nice guy and don't want give people the feeling of frustration for skill-decrease on too light grounds. This means that people who should have been made example of get to walk away sometimes). Permadeath.. Guess, what happens to your crafter then? He permadies, instead of being clouded. :wink:

But yes, there have actually been times when I feel exactly the same way, but in TB I fear backstabbing newbies who click around randomly way, way more than any PK-robberers. And it has been the same ever.

Not to mention, that TB actually offers the registration thing free, which should in theory give those registered a legal protection. Otherwise you are free game. Not that any of the bitchy merchants here bother registering themselves. "No, mister referee. It wasn't me, it's the other guy.":wink:

Considering that you don't even come to TB anymore, I think I can just conclude that it seems to be much steam out of nothing. :wink:



And as far as your barbarian is concerned, from what I remember, you were picking a fight (for some jeering comment about eirik or gerron) with my character the first time we run into eachother near the quarantine-zone.. Eirik interfered. Remember that? :wink:
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Greisling
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Post by Greisling »

Crommy, Krom did not blame your character for robbing people.
As far as I have understood, he blames your style of 'governing' that town called Trolls Bane.

Actually, you and your government have done nothing but having legalized crime in Trolls Bane, committed crime in Trolls Bane AND in other towns and never have been punished for that so far. Your character should now be the richest in game, both in ressources and money by having done nothing for it. It is a shame that it noone knows what has happened to it and what will happen to it.

Perhaps I should add a :wink:
.
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AlexRose
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Post by AlexRose »

No, I'm pretty sure Will and Dom are richer than Crommy.
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Greisling
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Post by Greisling »

Cause he pushed into ya's ***, I s'pose.
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