~ Building Rules / Bauregeln ~

Magdha Tiefenerz · Post by **Magdha Tiefenerz** » Thu May 10, 2007 5:34 pm

Maximilian wrote:Warum hat jetzt Silberbrand keine Esse mehr? Is ja kein neues Werzeug.
Und würde auch vom Umfeld und vom Platz passen

Das ist ein Bug. Gestern hatten wir noch eine und plötzlich war sie verschwunden.

@Lennier

Ich bin ganz ruhig. Aber wenn jemand etwas falsches behauptet...
Ansonsten geht das mit den kostenlosen statischen Werkzeugen so in Ordnung. Silberbrand wird natürlich die fehlenden Werkzeuge nachkaufen. Platz haben wir auch noch genug. Zur Not könnten wir aber auch noch anbauen.

Post by **Nitram** » Thu May 10, 2007 5:36 pm

Der Bug ist korrigiert aber die Essen müsse neu gesetzt werden.

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Thu May 10, 2007 5:54 pm

werd ich nacher mit nem update tun

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Fri May 11, 2007 5:53 am

I don't know if this has been asked yet as almost everything in the past few days has been in German, but... Have there been any changes or will there be any upcoming changes in the supplies needed to build due to the new crafting system?

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Fri May 11, 2007 5:26 pm

We have 4 new static tools which can be bhought. Take a look at the pricelists for them...

1 of each new tool is placed for free in different towns: A bake house, a workbench, a sieve and a tailoring table

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:03 pm

Okay, thank you. I wanted to make sure there were no raises in the amount of materials for building.

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Wed May 16, 2007 10:30 pm

Allright. Like everybody should know now, we have a new feature: Fires can destroy parts of the map.

It is a nice feature, if it is used right. But it also produces more work for me. I thought about it, how to handle it. Here is my proposal:

Destroyed items within a random acting get recreated with the next mapupdate within the next days (currently every week), without costs for the player chars.

If it happens within a known quest of GM/Questmakers or in a known and fair played conflict between parties of player chars, you have to pay the repair. We use the building rule about repairs, which says, that the recreation of all lost items cost the half of the listed prices.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:25 am

does that firething mean, that now towngates and the like can be burned down?

Elian · Post by **Elian** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:46 pm

Hello,

I'd like to have an idea of how much 'sand grounds' cost for building? Also, how much do 'water grounds' cost? E.g: I want 6 tiles of sand (Like in the arena) and 4 tiles of water.. What will it cost?

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:51 pm

buckets of water and sand?

Elian · Post by **Elian** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:53 pm

Thank you for this quite logical attempt, but I'd rather do my calculus depending on an official answer of Lennier ;)

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:57 pm

you're welcome karl

Elian · Post by **Elian** » Wed May 23, 2007 3:07 pm

Also, Lennier, please, I'd need the prices for these types of grounds:
- Sand
- Water
- Hedges

I'd be thankful for any information. Perhaps the build rules pages should also be updated?

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Wed May 23, 2007 3:31 pm

They are nor in the list, because they can not be bought in general. I place them for free if needed. Write me your plans via PM.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Wed May 23, 2007 3:31 pm

Lennier told me once that Hedges cost:

1 tile Hedge = 5 conifer seeds

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:58 pm

Hello everyone....

I need your help. I need your ideas to change the building rules to an more or less fair and and more logical thing, which forces to think about what the people want to build and why. Currently i have lots of problems with some ideas and plans of ingame guilds and their players, because i do not get it, why they do whyt they do.

Guilds only are found today to can build up something? I have the feeling, everyone try to get an "own" thing and go away, leave the towns and such to the next empty area. They are still an part of the communities?

What would you think about a stop of new buildings in wilderness or special regions for - maybe - the next year, so that the ones we have can develop?

Or, what rules could be made, to force the interacting with the settlements and communities we have, to prevent to split them more and more.

Dash · Post by **Dash** » Fri May 25, 2007 4:28 pm

The only new buildings i see are in greenbriar and Garon's house and both are used from what i can tell. I don't like the idea of halting new buildings, that feature was always one of my favorites because not many games offer that.

Post by **Jupiter** » Fri May 25, 2007 4:29 pm

Delte the Troll's Bane depots everywhere outside of Troll's Bane.

That would force guilds ( especially crafterguilds ) to build there houses in or near a town, because they couldn't move there items so easy anymore.

But well...before the Bane depots will be delted, we need a way to transport bigger amounts of goods. ( That were discussed before, I know )

In my opion that woule be a potential way to solve this problem...

Or!

You will not allowed guilds to buy town-connected depots anymore.
( of course you allow it, if the guilhouse is in a town or very close to a town )

Siltaris · Post by **Siltaris** » Fri May 25, 2007 4:31 pm

Is the rule that Guilds have to exist for 3 RL months not sufficient to prevent the sprawl?

If not, maybe we should think about increasing this time to 5 or 6 months?

Furthermore, people have to ask for permission by at least two, maybe three neighbouring towns/nations, if they give permission. Since it is ususally a case of good manners to ask the neighbours for permission. Otherwise the neighbours should react rather harsh to the new 'settler from nowhere'.

Following this idea a bit further:
All lands on Gobiath will be put under order of a Council, consisting of all members of all towns. Planning applications have to be discussed in this Council. Planning permission will be given by simple majority of all towns. It is up to the guild willing to build to organise a meeting of all towns ot at least to get permission by all towns.
However, the borders of the current towns will remain under the town's authority. Just for the wilderness this town's council's permission is needed - so, there would not be something like 'wilderness' any more, since it is under town's control and not for free.
Such Council would force guilds to interact with all towns and would force them to make a positive impression by the towns. At the same time, it could hold those people off building somewhere, because it indedd is hard work to negotiate and to get permission by all towns.
This Council could be used for other ig affairs as well, like there already had beens some discussions about that.

Another opportunity could be to rise the costs for making the wilderness useable for buildings ("reclaiming land") to 1 silver per tile.

Just my first ideas. And yes, I completely agree that this sprawl is not good for illarion and not good for the interactions between the players.

~Siltaris~

Siltaris · Post by **Siltaris** » Fri May 25, 2007 4:36 pm

Jupiter wrote:Delte the Troll's Bane depots everywhere outside of Troll's Bane.

before the Bane depots will be delted, we need a way to transport bigger amounts of goods.

When you think about deleting depots, this is the most important issue you have to clarify in advance!

Apart from that, it indeed would be a good way to help to stop the Sprawl.

Post by **Nitram** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:00 pm

The point is still. How to transport large amount of wares from A to B?

Post by **Jupiter** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:02 pm

Nitram wrote:The point is still. How to transport large amount of wares from A to B?

Do you mean the technical aspect or the logical aspect?

For the logical aspect:
A donkey or an big strong ( stupid^^ ) orc..

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:05 pm

well that would be a moving depot then wouldn't it, but who says that people won't abuse this..hsving some extra store with you would surely be usefull.
Another "Solution" may be to just place a normal guild depot in the guildhouse and no trolls bane depot somewhere else except in the towns, then every town gets a "storeroom" where the guild related depots stand, then tol vanima gets the one from the druidhouse and farmers union, greenbriar on for caelum, varshikar gets kallahorn(if they have any extra depot) and so on, so people are forced to go into towns to change their belongings.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:26 pm

In my opinion, Guild Building in the 'wilderness' shouldn't even be allowed.

Before everyone gets mad at me, hear me out.

Guilds operate on membership. They Have to have at least 4 members to continue as a guild. What's happening is that many players belong to more than one guild. This creates an 'underuse' of Guild buildings IG. Many Guilds are created, live a short while, then die through inactivity. This is very confusing and discouraging to those who would like to see an 'active' guild. Players shouldn't be allowed to have more than one Guild affiliation (Towns Exempt). Many think they can, but you just can't be loyal to two Guilds. You can't spend the time with them they each deserve. One Hometown, One Guild.

Many Characters are 'Generalists', I am one of the Guiltiest. They dabble in all skills, instead of 'specializing in one or a few. The Guilds are meant for 'specialists' to meet, learn and teach with the same 'specialists'. There are very few Characters IG that can boast "I am a cook" or "I am a Farmer" and truly mean it. That's why the Guild's are struggling with inactivity as well, too many characters decide to practice non-guild skills, yet belong to that Guild. Where are the 'specialists'? To my knowledge, there are no Master Tailors, Master Glassblowers, Master Carpenters.....It takes too long to 'dabble' in all the skills, and the Player economy suffers for it. 'Generalists' tend to have all they need, and trading is scarce if at all.

Towns are created simply because people choose to 'gather' there, Trade, interact and build it up, united in purpose and mutual protection and security. Guilds logically should be building in the setlements, to Gain members, recieve protection and customers.

It makes no sense for a Guild to be located so far away from civilization. Realistically, what's to stop Wandering Bandits, Packs of Wolves or any host of monsters from killing people at a 'Guild in the Wilderness. Have you noticed that almost all the Guilds are built in 'safe' places and/or the pace was 'made' safe by the Map editors (aka Nordmark)

I propose we do a few things:
1) No more Single Guild Building outside settlements. Current Guilds may only Build if another 'valid' Guild joins them, as Lennier once said "That's how Towns are formed". This will stop the sprawl.

2) Only allow one 'Character' to affiliate to one Guild. There simply aren't enough people to spread ourselves out to several Guilds each. Every Guild is stuggling to stay afloat.

3) Limit the number of Crafts a character can practice, maybe only 4 "Craft Points" which would be decided during Character Creation. Leave current Characters alone or give them the 'choice' to choose 4 Craft Skills to keep.This will create 'specialists in crafts and Trade will Boom as they begin trading for things they need.

4) Do not 'make' any wilderness 'safe'. Create many more Monster NPC's to Roam, even where Guilds currently exist in the wilderness. Traveling and living between cities should be an 'effort' with risk. After all, that's why we have teleporters AND Travel books AND Warriors in need of coin (escorts).

5) The idea to make certain Towns have certain items (Static Items) was a good idea, but is now being undone by allowing individuals and Guilds to also buy those 'static Items' in towns that shouldn't have had them (Farmer's Guild~Baking Oven and Greenbriar~Carpenter Table and who knows what else). Trade and interaction between towns won't happen if people have access to all they need in one location. I think each town needs to "Keep" those things that make it special.

6) Delete the Trollsbane Depots outside of Trollsbane. This won't be a popular idea, but to keep people traveling, interacting and trading, we have to stop the nonsense of having your 'Warehouse' anywhere you go. It doesn't matter if we can't move many items yet, because we shouldn't be doing that anyway (aka Powergamers). The Game needs 'Marketplaces' and places for Players to travel to trade things, and we can't do that if everyone has "Mega-things" in a depot that is everywhere they go.

I was one of the first to argue for Carts or "Beasts of Burden", but now I think the Game will be better if we force the Players to Travel, force them to think about where they store things, and 'logistics'. Delete the TB Depots outside TB.

I know many of you hate these ideas, and I'm with you. My character will be burdened as well. That's not the point here though. The question of how to improve the 'IG economy', "Sprawl away from Cities", as well as "Guild Apathy" needs unbiased, logical and rational answers.

I hope I have provided some good 'Unbiased' ideas.

Siltaris · Post by **Siltaris** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:55 pm

Nitram wrote:The point is still. How to transport large amount of wares from A to B?

Place a NPC Carriers next to one depots in every single town.

Example:
Go to the carrier in Varshikar and command him "I want to deliver 250 bricks to Troll's Bane".
The amount of Bricks will be transfered from the Depot in Varshikar to the Carrier in Troll's Bane.
Within the next 24 hours you have to go to the Carrier in Troll's Bane and say "I want to collect 250 bricks delivered from Varshikar" and the amount of bricks will be transfered to the depot in Troll's Bane (or be placed next to you, so you can pick it up and put it into the depot by your own immediatly).
Each transfer costs at least 50 coppers, for an amount of 50 units above you pay 2 coppers per unit extra (--> 30 bricks would cost 50 coppers; 250 bricks would cost 450 coppers to transfer).
The payment will be done in advance of the transfer to the first carrier.
If carriers should be taxed is up to the developers.

The carrier stuff could be done by a script. So, if you do not hurry and if the server crashes while you are heading from one town to the other, the things are gone. Bad for you, but then the carrier was robbed or something like that.. whatever. So, you have the need to really think how much and when you want to transfer things and you need to hurry from one place to the other.

by doing so, there would be some more NPCs additionally to the ones already existing. And it should be clarified which towns/guilds do get such a carrier. maybe just the large towns? So, there still is a disadvantage for people living far in the 'wilderness'? For them, Player-carriers would be possible solution. Just an idea.

PS: @ PO Dusty: good to see you discussing in a good manner

Good points in there

Dariya · Post by **Dariya** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:57 pm

Juniper Onyx wrote:In my opinion, Guild Building in the 'wilderness' shouldn't even be allowed.

Guilds operate on membership. They Have to have at least 4 members to continue as a guild. What's happening is that many players belong to more than one guild. This creates an 'underuse' of Guild buildings IG. Many Guilds are created, live a short while, then die through inactivity.

It makes no sense for a Guild to be located so far away from civilization. Realistically, what's to stop Wandering Bandits, Packs of Wolves or any host of monsters from killing people at a 'Guild in the Wilderness. Have you noticed that almost all the Guilds are built in 'safe' places and/or the pace was 'made' safe by the Map editors (aka Nordmark)

the Northmark is called guild, because only with this we were able to build our longhouse, yard, etc. But don't really see it as a "guild" like e.g. the farmers guild or miners guild. It's more to be seen as a settlement, where some "barbarians" decided to live away from civilisation. Which does not mean the Northmark is lazy. They do their jobs and trade quite a lot. For trading they wander the entire isle of Gobaith ... yes, WANDER, per pedes, because Norodaj refuse to use "Magical" stuff, so they don't use portals or teleporters.

Regarding safety: the Northmark territory is NOT safe. In the north there are still bandits, there are still gnolls as well as wolves. .... aaaand, the territory ( I guess you are talking about the coast north of the lighthouse ) has not been made safe by some map editor, but through the hands and weapons of some brave Northmarkers

it was an official mini-quest.

4) Do not 'make' any wilderness 'safe'. Create many more Monster NPC's to Roam, even where Guilds currently exist in the wilderness. Traveling and living between cities should be an 'effort' with risk. After all, that's why we have teleporters AND Travel books AND Warriors in need of coin (escorts).

see above

5) The idea to make certain Towns have certain items (Static Items) was a good idea, but is now being undone by allowing individuals and Guilds to also buy those 'static Items' in towns that shouldn't have had them (Farmer's Guild~Baking Oven and Greenbriar~Carpenter Table and who knows what else). Trade and interaction between towns won't happen if people have access to all they need in one location. I think each town needs to "Keep" those things that make it special.

please keep in mind that there are players who don't have the time to spend hours and hours ingame, wandering from for example the Northmark to Briar, to Varshikar and back to the Northmark. As explained, we don't use portals, you know how long it takes to only get to Bane or to Silverbrand, not speaking of Briar ... and still we DO trade. In some points you might be right, but please don't generalize.

6) Delete the Trollsbane Depots outside of Trollsbane. This won't be a popular idea, but to keep people traveling, interacting and trading, we have to stop the nonsense of having your 'Warehouse' anywhere you go. It doesn't matter if we can't move many items yet, because we shouldn't be doing that anyway (aka Powergamers).

As you said yourself, travelling between towns should be a risk, which definitely IS like that in the case of the Northmark. I guess, none of the Northmarkers ever leaves the longhouse without armour and weapons. They couldn't trade anything if there weren't the Trolls Bane depots. Alright, this is slightly exaggerated, but they aren't able to carry around many items, due to armoury/weapons, so they definitely couldn't trade enough wares to earn their living, except they would walk the way from the Northmark to Bane maybe four times a day, which brings me back again to the point that not every player is able to stay ingame for half the day or more.

The Game needs 'Marketplaces' and places for Players to travel to trade things, and we can't do that if everyone has "Mega-things" in a depot that is everywhere they go.

I like the idea of a marketplace, where generally wares are traded, where to meet people wanting to trade.
But there, bringing me back again to the point of "general" depots, a Trolls Bane depot is required, imho

... just my 2 cents ... or five to six

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Fri May 25, 2007 6:01 pm

The guilds like we have now are a corious thing and have no real future i believe.

Old Guild/Groups/Clans which found the most of our towns are political Systems, groups of people with different professions, which work together for goals of "higher" dimension.

The new guilds are more or less specific groups with a main point at any limited kind of crafter acting.

The question is, for what a "guild" of a specific profession and only 4-5 people need own land, an own house in the wilderness? Why they are not a more or less separated but involved part of a bigger thing like a town. That would make sense! The Miner Guild of Trolls Bane, The Tailoing Guild of Varshikar, The Trader Guild of the Dwarves of Trolls Bane etc... (each town could have the same clans/profession groups/guilds for the same job)

Maybe i really should stop to support "guilds" to found new settlements, as long as they have no concept of an own settlement, which should be really hard to get and only with support of the towns we ready have (Council Idea of Siltaris) and than a task for more than 1 guild to found a new settlement.

(I believe Juniper Onyx and I are on the same way

)

Siltaris · Post by **Siltaris** » Fri May 25, 2007 6:19 pm

Lennier wrote: The question is, for what a "guild" of a specific profession and only 4-5 people need own land, an own house in the wilderness? Why they are not a more or less separated but involved part of a bigger thing like a town. That would make sense! The Miner Guild of Trolls Bane, The Tailoing Guild of Varshikar, The Trader Guild of the Dwarves of Trolls Bane etc... (each town could have the same clans/profession groups/guilds for the same job)

Good argument!
From that point of view it indeed make little sense to give a miners or tailor guild a house somewhere in nowhere. While, in the end they will come to some town anyway to sell their products. So, it is much more reasonable to force them to build on lands of existing towns.

However, if there are more than 2 or 3 guild who want to build their own settlement, fine. Should be difficult to find so many active players, and it should be difficult to get planning permission by the towns. Like mentioned from you, lennier.

--> Stop to build in the wilderness. Sprawl never has been good for lively communities nor societies. Would be good if we can win against the sprawl at least in a world where the gods are able to intervene in all they want.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Fri May 25, 2007 6:28 pm

Dariya wrote: the Northmark is called guild, because only with this we were able to build our longhouse, yard, etc. But don't really see it as a "guild" like e.g. the farmers guild or miners guild. It's more to be seen as a settlement, where some "barbarians" decided to live away from civilisation. Which does not mean the Northmark is lazy. They do their jobs and trade quite a lot. For trading they wander the entire isle of Gobaith ... yes, WANDER, per pedes, because Norodaj refuse to use "Magical" stuff, so they don't use portals or teleporters.

It's still a 'guild' and not a settlement yet, according to the Devs that put in those nice teleporters. Caelum and Zzyathis are wanna-be Towns too, but technically still 'Guilds'. Ever consider asking some other Guilds to join with you to make it a 'town'? It's my understanding that is what needs to happen. Until then it's a far distant place that few stay at. Half of your 'membership are characters with the same PO. How 'active' is that, and how long can it go on? No need to answer, many Guilds are the same way.

Dariya wrote: Regarding safety: the Northmark territory is NOT safe. In the north there are still bandits, there are still gnolls as well as wolves. .... aaaand, the territory ( I guess you are talking about the coast north of the lighthouse ) has not been made safe by some map editor, but through the hands and weapons of some brave Northmarkers it was an official mini-quest.

I remember that whole place 'teemed' with bandits. Yes, there are the Bandits to the east and the Gnolls in the woods, but in general, both the path up there from the Lighthouse and around the Building is pretty safe, created by the editors. I know, Dusty has been there many times, and only recently has been able to keep from cutting his own foot off with a sword, so I know it is safe, just have to know where the monsters are.

Dariya wrote: please keep in mind that there are players who don't have the time to spend hours and hours ingame, wandering from for example the Northmark to Briar, to Varshikar and back to the Northmark. As explained, we don't use portals, you know how long it takes to only get to Bane or to Silverbrand, not speaking of Briar ... and still we DO trade. In some points you might be right, but please don't generalize.

That's the point the Devs. are trying to get to, why aren't the 'towns' trading more? If players don't have the time, they shouldn't decide to stay far off in the wilderness, should they? Many don't so the point is moot. The Northmark 'chose' to live far away as other guilds have, and the members know that when they join. If you make it a town, it will be easier I think.

Dariya wrote: As you said yourself, travelling between towns should be a risk, which definitely IS like that in the case of the Northmark. I guess, none of the Northmarkers ever leaves the longhouse without armour and weapons. They couldn't trade anything if there weren't the Trolls Bane depots. Alright, this is slightly exaggerated, but they aren't able to carry around many items, due to armoury/weapons, so they definitely couldn't trade enough wares to earn their living, except they would walk the way from the Northmark to Bane maybe four times a day, which brings me back again to the point that not every player is able to stay ingame for half the day or more.

Then hire some porters with warriors as escort. We need more RP opportunities like that. Realistically, Caravans always had escorts against attack. How come very few people travel or 'Party' together? It's because we have the 'ability' to do it ourselves, when really, the game would progress with RP if we were forced not to be able to do everything ourselves. We can't wear armor while crafting, and the cost of wearing armor is a loss of carrying ability. Choose one or the other, let someone else 'complement' your character's 'deficiency'.

Dariya wrote: I like the idea of a marketplace, where generally wares are traded, where to meet people wanting to trade.
But there, bringing me back again to the point of "general" depots, a Trolls Bane depot is required, imho

I ask again, why do you have to have that mobile 'warehouse' to trade? Why can't you go to town with some 10-20 wares on a market day, or at a marketplace, sell them and buy only what you need to travel back with or even hire people to help carry? Why does everyone have to trade 500 Ores or 1000Bricks, etc. It seems unrealistic and smells like Powergaming (I should know

.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Fri May 25, 2007 6:50 pm

Siltaris wrote: Good argument!
From that point of view it indeed make little sense to give a miners or tailor guild a house somewhere in nowhere. While, in the end they will come to some town anyway to sell their products. So, it is much more reasonable to force them to build on lands of existing towns.

I agree. However, the towns need to 'encourage' Guilds to settle there. There is none of that I can see. Guilds brings Crafts, good Wares and trade to a town. The town that has a guild, will likely have easy access to those products made.

Guilds also need to have some 'advantage' to bring to the town too. Maybe 'Guild' only static items the Town can't get? For example: There is no 'smithing' Guild in the towns, because those towns were allowed to buy all the static items. What's the point of a guild if everyone can make the items themselves? I think 'Public' Static items should stop giving skills after a point, then the Guild 'static' items can adavance a character further. Can this be implemented?

Currently, Guildmembers travel anywhere there are people to trade, not just Trollsbane. If the Guild was in the town, it is less likely that members would need to travel, and customers coming to that town will likely find a Guildmember there, instead of 'hunting' all over Gobiath for one.

Siltaris wrote: However, if there are more than 2 or 3 guild who want to build their own settlement, fine. Should be difficult to find so many active players, and it should be difficult to get planning permission by the towns. Like mentioned from you, lennier.

I wouldn't give player 'run' towns that authority. Players are often influenced by feelings and bias toward others, which in turn may create resentment or ill-will IG. If we make set 'rules' about Guilds, then that should be sufficient.

I'm sorry, but you're council idea won't work. It's hard enough to get players together in one meeting, much less every time a proposal is issued. Too much work for those players. Besides, I understand some of the Staff would like to see more 'Dissension' between towns, not 'Unification'. The game is stagnant and no 'fun' if every town agrees to protect the other. Where is the possible 'angst' in that? Not very exciting, and creates more work for the GM's to 'invent' things to keep players entertained.

Siltaris wrote: --> Stop to build in the wilderness. Sprawl never has been good for lively communities nor societies. Would be good if we can win against the sprawl at least in a world where the gods are able to intervene in all they want.

I agree, but we'll have to impose unsavory limits to do that. Some hard decisions have to be made, and they won't be popular. I see no other way.

Siltaris wrote:PS: @ PO Dusty: good to see you discussing in a good manner Good points in there

Umm....I have always tried to advance the game "When needed" and had fun "When wanted". There is a difference, and it's good to have both. I just haven't felt 'needed' in a while. But thanks anyway.