Magic Discussion

[Skaalib Drurr]

Ok, let Alex rephrase. Only ok roleplayers can learn good magic.

[Hu'greu]

I guess somone posioned your food

[Cuthalion]

1) Silas is a good char
2) It doesnt take very long to learn magic (At least not usually lol)
3) Mages are not few, when you think about how few who really play this game
4) Magic is not that powerfull, it seems to me.
5) Mages should not go around casting all the time.

[abcfantasy]

2) It doesnt take very long to learn magic (At least not usually lol)
3) Mages are not few, when you think about how few who really play this game
4) Magic is not that powerfull, it seems to me.
5) Mages should not go around casting all the time.

I agree. magic should be very powerful, yet rarely used! The game would become so ugly and so sad if magic was powerful and mages just cast them on each char they dislike, and just for the fun of it...it would ruin everything...

(as for Silas...I don't know him)

[Lrmy]

1) Silas is a good char
2) It doesnt take very long to learn magic (At least not usually lol)
3) Mages are not few, when you think about how few who really play this game
4) Magic is not that powerfull, it seems to me.
5) Mages should not go around casting all the time.

How would you know how powerful magic is again?

[Skaalib Drurr]

1) Silas is a good char
2) It doesnt take very long to learn magic (At least not usually lol)
3) Mages are not few, when you think about how few who really play this game
4) Magic is not that powerfull, it seems to me.
5) Mages should not go around casting all the time.

1) Agreed
2) Patric will tell you different
3) Wrong. Look on the list of mages. It is 5 or 6
4) Wrong
5) That is your opinion on how a mage should be played, it is not objective.

[Azuros]

2) It doesnt take very long to learn magic (At least not usually lol)

You're kidding....right?

[Asesino]

Magic has gotten quite weak, I agree. the last update was strange, spells take a random amount of mana now are less powerfull and seem absolutely unbalanced. Everyone who says magic is overpowered is in my opinion not up to date, or was never able to say such thing. it was hard to play a mage in combat before and now it is something between a lot of luck and impossibility. I very seldom play Duchan agressive, because in his opinion, it is not wise to show ones potential, but I think he should not be weak when it comes to use his magic. for me, magic should be rather hard to obtain, though not impossible. one ( a character, not the player) has to proof, that he is worthy of the wisdom (yeah I mean the ig-knowledge about magic, which should be treatened as powerful as the runes... knowledge is power ) and the effective magic. A full mage now, should be very powerful, but have his weaknesses. simply rp, I would expect, that a mage is for sure phisically weak, and if he has high attributes in magic skills, have some sort of eccentric, arrogant or whatever behaviour. I have never met an intelligent, smart, knowing, wise person who had enough accountability to be called "normal".
Further I have to say, that at the moment, mages have almost no possibility to gain money AND: No, selling the powers to someone is for most mages impossible, since they almost all fight for a greater cause. I think almost no mage would think of it as wise. No arrogant mage puts himself under another one and no wise mage would give up his ethics for another one. this is like you would demand of samantha to go into prostitution . erm I have forgotten what more to write, but I will come to it later if I'll remember

[abcfantasy]

I very seldom play Duchan agressive, because in his opinion, it is not wise to show ones potential, but I think he should not be weak when it comes to use his magic. for me, magic should be rather hard to obtain, though not impossible. one ( a character, not the player) has to proof, that he is worthy of the wisdom (yeah I mean the ig-knowledge about magic, which should be treatened as powerful as the runes... knowledge is power ) and the effective magic. A full mage now, should be very powerful, but have his weaknesses. simply rp, I would expect, that a mage is for sure phisically weak, and if he has high attributes in magic skills, have some sort of eccentric, arrogant or whatever behaviour.

I really agree with Asesino here. Hard to obtain, and spells should only be used as a last resort, since a mage shouldn't show his full potential.
And a full mage will be very powerful, but his weakness would be his physical, so I would believe a warrior would find it hard to even approach the mage, but if he does, then it will be easy to put him down...

[Arameh]

With the last posts I read, I can say, we all agree that we do not agree, thats a start I guess.

[Asesino]

With the last posts I read, I can say, we all agree that we do not agree, thats a start I guess.

shows that you have no clue

[Arameh]

I mean the last 15 posts or so

[Estralis Seborian]

This means that we all agree that magic should:

Take very long to master
Be (very) powerfull
Be rearly seen
Should take some time to cast
Mages should be at least ok roleplayers
Mages should be few

???

Take very long to master
But not forever. A dozend ingame hours without any progress are a valid argument to abandon a game.

Be (very) powerful
Comparable to good fighters when it comes to damage, yes. But devastating "paralyze-iceflame-combos" - no!

Be rarely seen
But often enough so everybody knows there is magic around.

Should take some time to cast
As everything should take some seconds to be done.

Mages should be at least ok roleplayers
Everybody playing Illa should be, no?

Mages should be few
Yeah, but not only 5 or such elitary guys. Everybody should have the possibility to learn magic, at least the [useless] basics.

[Kaila Galathil Travinus]

I am a little confused on this discussion of being a mage and have read most of the posts. A mage is physically weak and can't possibly fight well as fighters do, with sword or weapon. In fact, if attacked probably will not be able to protect themselves much at all, even from non-fighters unless they are able to use magic. Yet those chars that are made for mages are expected to not do magic or pass some test in order to be allowed to do the only thing they can do? Due to the limits most chars made for mages won't be able to excel in crafts either. Which limits the ability to earn copper.

If that is the case, why not have the mages be a special race then and apply for one like other special ones? There's no need to have a char with the limiting abilities of a mage that won't be allowed to be one. As far as RP, there are some fighters that may not do well either, and I think saying one is good or not and that RP is not good enough for a mage or a fighter or a craftsman is very limiting to the game as a whole.

With the abilities of a mage and limiting them, was there a problem previously, too much power? If so I guess I missed it. It appears to me that a powerful mage and a powerful fighter should have near the same strength, but there seems to be a difference of opinion on if that is true or not?

[Damien]

Well that's how it works, stuff gets talked to death by people who don't like it, and people who overdo it are the point of measure. That's why things never really work in illarion, too few concept because of lack of manpower, and too much senseless discussion and flaming. If it's going on like this, illarion will not last much longer.

[Hu'greu]

well I guess we have to move to planeshift

[Jeremy Gems Willowbrook]

Wow, halflings pwn...

Anyways, what does Jeremy think of the fact no one can gain magic resistance from monsters? That the only way to do it is from a player...

Jeremy thinks this is very silly.
Fighters learn to parry and dodge by fighting monsters so mages should gain magic resistance from them.
Especially since people dont like mages casting spells all the time to 'train'. (Despite the fact that nobody worries about fighters constantly 'duelling' to improve their skills.) How else are mages supposed to learn anything and improve?
Fighters/non-mages should have to learn magic resistance from a player mage though. IMO magic resistance is an active skill, not a passive one. It doesnt work automatically but has to be 'performed', just like parrying and dodging.
Maybe make a cut-off, based on essence/perception/intelligence (or a combination of them). People below the level cant learn without specific training (ie from a PC). People on or above can learn from anywhere (monsters and PC's). For mages certain runes (SAV) also should increase the magic resistance (and using magic resistance would improve the rune skill slightly too).

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Magic is currently bugged and fucked up. You want to know how much bugged? Bugged enough that Samantha, one of the strongest mages ingame, casted 5 ra kel qwan, the strongest damage spell, onto Grant Rothman, emptying AALL her mana with that, and he survived and ran away. THAT fugged up.

Magic is currently a pile of shit...

[Arameh]

I dont think its the strongest damage spell currently, it is casted fairly quickly and the spell you had used on Dain were way stronger in damages.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

The spell on Dain happened BEFORE the magic system was bugged. And it is as silas said. The only other spell with more damage potential is the iceflame.

[Cuthalion]

The problem is, Kaila, that there are way to many players who wants a mage. And most of these players tries to make their first char a mage. The best way to make chars out of roleplaying view would be if one had to roll like a dice for your atributes I think. But it would be all too easy to cheat i supose.
If you are afraid that your char will not suceed, and you think it is no fun to play a character who can not fight much, then you better make another char. Or maybe one could have, as abc proposed, two paths of magic, one lower, and one higher. The point about a roleplaying game is not that all characters should be balanced.
Anyway, it seems we are not getting anywhere here. I give up. let the gms decide:)

[Kaila Galathil Travinus]

The problem is, Kaila, that there are way to many players who wants a mage. And most of these players tries to make their first char a mage. The best way to make chars out of roleplaying view would be if one had to roll like a dice for your atributes I think. But it would be all too easy to cheat i supose.
If you are afraid that your char will not suceed, and you think it is no fun to play a character who can not fight much, then you better make another char. Or maybe one could have, as abc proposed, two paths of magic, one lower, and one higher. The point about a roleplaying game is not that all characters should be balanced.
Anyway, it seems we are not getting anywhere here. I give up. let the gms decide:)

Or, let all mage chars be applied for as in a special race. Part of the package could be a random rune, others would need to be skilled to get which would make different chars have different capabilites.

"If you are afraid that your char will not suceed, and you think it is no fun to play a character who can not fight much" I didn't indicate any of this in my post, but I do think that judging from RP alone could be favoritism if not done fairly, and two paths to magic could have too many chars with magic abilites.

[Retlak]

Magic is currently bugged and fucked up. You want to know how much bugged? Bugged enough that Samantha, one of the strongest mages ingame, casted 5 ra kel qwan, the strongest damage spell, onto Grant Rothman, emptying AALL her mana with that, and he survived and ran away. THAT fugged up.

Magic is currently a pile of shit...

Why the hell can my mate take down half a health bar with one spell and you cannot!!1!??


Also, did the magic system get bugged as soon as i invaded trolls bane that one night?

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Don't aks me, ask Nitram. Grant survived 5 ra kel qwan yesterday, and samanthas skill is bright green((around 60 % skill)) and she has the best magic pushing items possible.
and no, the system is bugged since last week.

[Retlak]

Oh right, i thought you said that night when you fought the undead you had to use like 80 mana potions.

Anyway, what is this ra kel qwan exactly? (description please)

[Samantha Meryadeles]

The flame pillar araising from the ground. and than vanishing.

and yes, it was bugged there too, but just the mana usage, not the strength. now the strength is bugged aswell

[Retlak]

Really!? *starts bullying Samantha ig*

[Arameh]

You still made Grant running like a sissy with 'bugged' magic, he has about average skills as far as I know and using 2 good sword. But I guess that so you can be happy with the system, even while losing at close ranges warriors shoulnt be able to flee (even if Samantha can teleport throught walls so she can flee).

[Retlak]

Judging on some certain evidence i think someone needs to read the rules, and its not Dan <.<

[Samantha Meryadeles]

even if Samantha can teleport throught walls so she can flee)

again you proof that you know nothing. i told you magic is bugged. samantha targeted for a spot infront of the well outside. which she could see through the window. but the spell teleported her into the room. it could happen that she targets a spot 5 fields ahead, and lands 5 field behind her! it..IS..BUGGED!

and grant survived 5 of the strongest spells. there was a time a warrior wouldnt survived 2!