Illarion.org

I find it rediculous that they cut the teachers down again, To those who have almost all the runes or have had the teaching rune. This is what I see.

1. Damien and Dji are given the runes because of their status in outside of the game. They are given the runes before ANYONE ELSE< FOR NO REASON. They didn't attend any classes, the reasoning behind it was they showed "Ample knowlege of the Magic Arts." Can you smell the bullshit?


2. When they handed out the runes because the academy failed, they basically picked who they liked the most of who was in the academy, and gave them the runes. Not the ones who tried to attend the most meetings, but all the class times where on the german time frame.

3. After they realised, "Hey, This teaching system sucks. it takes too long" they decided(being Damien mostly) that they should revamp the system. They asked for all the teachers and mages that have most the runes and want to teach. Wait, Wouldn't that just mean that all the Elitest chars and favorites of that elitest char would be able to teach? Smells vaugley like a second round of Elitism. They don't take into account those who have been around for a year, WANTING TO LEARN THE RUNES, TRYING TO LEARN THE RUNES, but, there were no teachers, so basically it comes down to these fact

- All the new teachers that come out of the revamping of the Teaching system, will still be the Favorites of the GM's or those that were chosen first.
- Damien ellected himself to be a canidate for the teaching rune. 95 % chance that he will make himself part of the Teachers. Along with what, 4 people? Why don't we actually Try to create some Mages, Instead of keeping them so their so fucking low.


4. Instead of only choosing by those who have runes, Why not look for those who TRIED to get the runes, and Practiced so much, but found it a futile search, so gave up. Also, Why not try to get different points of view for teachers that teach magic. So far I only see Athian as the only true "Every magic art is equal, no matter what it is." All the mages on the isle except for maybe 4-6, are played wrongly.

-A Mage is supposed to be: Smart, knowing, Stuck up, arrogant, and wise
-A Warlock is supposed to be: Smart, Knowlegeable, strong, wide perspective, aware, and wise.

So far, Only 4 people have proven this to me, and one is my own bloody character. the other three are: Samantha, Athian, and Meriel. All three of these possess the attitudes of a mage or warlock. Not what these new mages are doing. the View of a mage is supposed to work in a way that all Magical arts are the same. Elementals are the same against Necromancy. And it goes along this princible:

While Necromancy is a crime against man, Elemental magic is a crime against nature.

For while you raise dead body and souls with necromancy, you steal energy and manipulate Nature into what you want it to be. The same could be said with any magic form. Yet, Necromancy is seen as a horrible offence by all the mages out their except for a whopping 5. Swoot swoot anyone?

What I'm saying is not to continue with another round of elitest bullshit, and get off your high horses and do something about this. you're already trying to revamp the system, it's not like I'm trying to get you to do something while your doing something else. If you don't want to have an over flow of Mages, Do it so it's one from each god. But the thing is. Magic is not that strong to where you need to keep it from the general public. And I find this bullshit. Either 1, make more teachers( I mean more, as in 9-12 teachers.), 2. Make basic runes more available, or 3. Just give all the runes at the start.

Arigatoshuzumi.

*Claps*

Bravo. The wise one speaks the truth.

The difference is

By elemental magic you dont steal anything. it is roleplayed like the mages borrow the natural forces to do the spells.

in necromancy you steal a soul from chergas relam. you take that soul, bind it into a body and make it your slave, causing torture for the soul since she lost her peace, her free will and has to work for you as a stupid slave.

see the difference and why it is seen as evil?

Still, it could be the same exact thing Samantha, what you don't see, is that yes, you are stealing the soul from chergas realm to do your bidding. BUT YOU DO THE SAME EXACT THING WITH ELEMENTALS. To borrow is to take from somewhere. so you take the Soul, or the Energy, make it do what you wish, then when you are done with it, it returns to wince it came.

Nature for Elementals, Chergas realm for Necromancy. you can't "Borrow" one thing and "Steal another" you still ask cherga for the soul as you ask nature for the Energy. Sorry, It makes no sense to call one one thing, and call the other another.

Necromancy is not evil. Medians and things that put spirits to rest are not exactly classed as evil.

I agree with Taylor

Mages dont steal the elemental things. They form mana into the spells, the effects. and they dont steal mana, they bid for it inform of the rituals, handmoves and the runes spoken. they channel the mana of the world into spells which than have an effect. they dont use fire and make flames from it, they use mana and turn it into flames.

just like in star trek, when they use energy to turn it into food or items or whatever

In magic, Everything requires asking for another thing Samantha, get this through your thick skull for once. Necromancy isn't just poof, give me a body and soul. you ask for it. and Elementals, WHERE did I say you take fire and make it into flames? I said you take ENERGY(I'll say mana so you can understand) and manipulate it to do what you want(Aka, Flame, wind, ice, poison) Then when it has done what you asked, that mana returns to the mana stream.

Too bad that this doesnt fit the real working of magic, which got decided by the staff and those who taught magic.

Sorry Taylor...but you dont decide how magic works in illarion. That does the staff. and they decided that it works the way i explained.

Do explain where this is wrong? I believe it was said that all magic comes from the Mana stream/pool. thus you take mana to create something, then return it when you are done. By all means Samantha, oh one who the world revolves around, tell me where this is SOOOOOO fucking wrong?

You say mages steal it. that is wrong.mages dont steal mana.

Mages take mana, but not against the worlds or the mana streams will, they ask the magic for it. than they use the mana they are granted and form it into spells. mana, by the side, doesnt vanish. after the spell got casted the mana energy will become again part of the mana stream.

but you say mages steal it, abuse it, missuse it. and that is wrong.

while that is exactly what is done in necromancy. Cherga doesnt like necromancers, she doesnt like it what they do with the souls of dead ones

I'll go borrow some money from my parents purse and use it at a place related to their work.

Cliu Beothach wrote:I'll go borrow some money from my parents purse and use it at a place related to their work.

Genius.

Listen, I didn't say Mages steal mana, I said they take it. you are the one who said that one "Borrows" one and "steals the other" I'm sorry, But yes, Cherga doesn't like those who take her souls. HOWEVER, she also does not care that they do so. She doesn't care who uses her powers or souls.

Read. More. carefully. and. maybe. you. will. be. enlightened.

"Many necromancers are followers of Cheerga, but many fortune tellers too. Cherga does not care what the mortals do with the knowledge, and most of this knowledge has a high price."

"Prayed to for:
Avoiding death, healing of ill people(spare them), rest and protection for the dead, bring rest to undead, sometimes help for necromancers."

The way I understand what it says on moonsilver, necromancers ask Cherga for the souls

In fact, mages don#t even "take" it, they just push it into the one or other direction. We have lots of theoretical magic stuff which contains highly important sounding words like "focus" and"directed" etc. *ggg*
But that's nothing to discuss about in any OOC matter.

Anyhow, Cheerga's followers are somewhat like Gravekeepers, and are instructed to really hunt down those disturbing the rest of the dead (=necromancers). Mages / mortals at all cannot do anything to a soul.

So this was decided against the Background of Illarion that you wrote? Since it is stated that Cherga sometimes helps necromancers.

Just like I directed my parents funds.

There is "Necromancy" and "Necromancy"

some necromancers just speak with the dead, or frees hunted places from them and give their soul peace, or they buold up connections between the realm of living and dead, but just for serving the dead ones.

and other necromancers are the evil ones. stealing souls, enslaving them, and so on.

And Damien is right, the servants of cherga are there to hunt the evil ones down. just go to athian and tell him you love enslaving undeads, you will see what happens

Fine then, Lets say a theres a Druid, and then theirs a Druid. Look, A Necromancer is a Necromancer, just because he chooses not to use the power in which he can provoke, does not make him any different than the other who does. They are both the same. a Corrupt knight is the same as a Noble knight, if the Noble knight stays in the corrupt knighthood.

Basically, its not the magic that is evil, it is the one using it who determines evil or good through their intentions

Just as an aside (because I certainly wouldn't want to interrupt the p***ing contest..)

I don't think Taylor was saying 'there are NO evil Necromancers'. Of course there are evil Necromancers. Just as there are evil Elementalists. But I think his point was that *Necromancy is not evil in and of itself*. It's all in how you use it.

NirAntae wrote:Just as an aside (because I certainly wouldn't want to interrupt the p***ing contest..)

I don't think Taylor was saying 'there are NO evil Necromancers'. Of course there are evil Necromancers. Just as there are evil Elementalists. But I think his point was that *Necromancy is not evil in and of itself*. It's all in how you use it.

Indeed, a point that William has made countless times when confronted.

Necromancers calm spirits.
Necromancers Make servants to do their bidding.
Mages do something creative with magic.
Mages use magic to kill people.

It can be used however it wants, i do not see why some people are so thick that they class whatever they use as good and whatever anything else is as evil. Or whatever.

magic is for lazy people

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:magic is for lazy people

You're a lazy person?

And what is the say on the real reason of my post? It seems you all missed it.

Nothing around here will EVER get answered...Sorry Taylor, just how it is.

O..k...
Why do you discus if necromancy is evil? Define evil.
I agree on your post more or less Taylor, except the definition of mages. Magic is somthing you are born with, you have to be intelligent, but you do not have to be arogant. You do not have to be wise either I think. I allso do not agree wich mages rp well, acording to your definition. I do not know all of them, but I don't think Samantha is rp'ed so very intelligent or wise. She is arogant, but that is because she is a lady i think? Valirion or what his name is does a good job. He plays intelligent, and wise. great:)

But, make a new thread to discuss this. Isnt this thread about how strong magic should be? And partially how it should be organised? Please try to find a soloution, not only problems, state opinions, don't come with insults.

Taylor wrote:All the mages on the isle except for maybe 4-6, are played wrongly.

In your opinion.
Please enlighten me as to how I 'should' be playing Jeremy then. Thanks.
Or will you concede that mage characters are allowed to have their own quirks/personality/traits/individuality/etc.?

Taylor wrote: -A Mage is supposed to be: Smart, knowing, Stuck up, arrogant, and wise.

So all mages are the same? They all think and act the same? Should all warriors/archers/druids therefore be carbon copies of each other too?
Why is it not possible for a mage to be humble and unassuming?

If all mages were 'stuck up' and 'arrogant' I doubt they would deem anybody worthy of learning their magic either would they?

Taylor wrote: While Necromancy is a crime against man, Elemental magic is a crime against nature.

Not true. Elemental magic does not harm nature at all...though the effects it produces can. Which means a mage, who is wise, will be careful who he teaches magic to.
Though of course, according to your definition, all mages are 'stuck up' and 'arrogant' so they wouldnt give a damn about the effects they have on nature because they know they are right and capable of using magic properly. And nature has a built-in self-repair system, so it will be just fine soon enough, thank you very much.

Taylor wrote:Magic is not that strong to where you need to keep it from the general public.

So it would be okay for everyone to teleport everywhere all the time? Or create portals everywhere? Everyone should be able to cast walls of iceflames? Or blast everything with area effect fireballs?
Which would also, of course, make everyone a mage so they would all have to be 'Smart, knowing, Stuck up, arrogant, and wise'. Not terms normally applied to the 'general public' in medieval times.