A rant about wrestling

Grivijak · Post by **Grivijak** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:02 pm

Stop whining like a little bitch.

Its not about keeping something weak because it can be used anywhere. If that was the case we would have weak mages that cannot hurt anything. Think of the reason why Tactics are here, and why martial arts and disarming people exist.

Stop thinking that a big slow armoured swordsman can instantly slice someone up who can easily run in and disarm them in someway. Pressure points exist.

Taliss Kazzxs · Post by **Taliss Kazzxs** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:02 pm

Thats why I suggest it should be strengthened with parry only when its near mastered.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:41 pm

Grivijak wrote:Stop whining like a little bitch.

Its not about keeping something weak because it can be used anywhere. If that was the case we would have weak mages that cannot hurt anything. Think of the reason why Tactics are here, and why martial arts and disarming people exist.

Stop thinking that a big slow armoured swordsman can instantly slice someone up who can easily run in and disarm them in someway. Pressure points exist.

I never said that, I said its not practical to the skillset and the economy to have people who will buy fuckall, because they only need their fists to kill things.

This argument has gone in rpg systems for years. And to be honest, its ridiculous to think that in the middle ages, everyone with any skill to punch someone in the skull would go to battle without an armor or weaponry, don't you think? I don't seem to remember battles with monks slaughtering whole fortresses.

I think that you all are the whiney ones. Someone got beat up because someone else had a better weapon and less skill then his hands do. So what? Grab a big knife, find out who did it, and smack them back. Don't come here to cry about how you got your ass kicked by a noob and want yet another revision to the already perfectly fine fighting system

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:51 pm

Grivijak wrote:Stop whining like a little bitch.

Its not about keeping something weak because it can be used anywhere. If that was the case we would have weak mages that cannot hurt anything. Think of the reason why Tactics are here, and why martial arts and disarming people exist.

Stop thinking that a big slow armoured swordsman can instantly slice someone up who can easily run in and disarm them in someway. Pressure points exist.

Just stop talkin about reality. Life is not a Jet Li Movie, and there is no way somone unarmed could win in RL. At least far from likely. However Illa is not suposed to be that realistic. If the problem is that unarmed people dont need to buy weapons, then make some punching gloves or somthing.

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:00 pm

Look, unarmed fighters must still buy armour, if they choose they could buy everything except swords, which cost about 5 silver, and training swords very little.

Grivijak · Post by **Grivijak** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:09 pm

I think that you all are the whiney ones. Someone got beat up because someone else had a better weapon and less skill then his hands do.

To be honest, you are the one whining.

Something happens, a po suggests what would be better. But then you stick your nose in as usual and babble on about how its unfair or whatnot, when it was only a suggestion.

We really do not need the shitty points that make no sence or use from your side, like "Oh they do not need weapon! keep damage low!"

An uppercut into someones nose at the right angle can kill them, a sword against someones chest can kill them. live with it.

We're not looking at fairness here, were looking at fact.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:21 pm

Whats more likely to kill someone, the sword, or the fist?

The sword.

FACT

Grivijak · Post by **Grivijak** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:26 pm

Nevermind, i thought you would have gained some knowledge on how combat can work. Instead of argueing with true facts.

I end my discussion here. I have nothing left to say.

(Until some noob quotes me)

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:30 pm

What is worth more in materials, chain mail, or leather shoes?
And which sells for more?(to npc's)

This proves that fairness or fact is not always ingame

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:33 pm

Grivijak wrote:Nevermind, i thought you would have gained some knowledge on how combat can work. Instead of argueing with true facts.

I end my discussion here. I have nothing left to say.

(Until some noob quotes me)

Arguing with true facts, exactly. I stated a true fact. You have lost your debate.

How can combat work? It CAN work a variety of ways, should each of those mostly useless ways be put into illarion when other areas are in need of much more improvement? no.

Grivijak · Post by **Grivijak** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:08 pm

I have not lost a debate, when the person i argue with seems to think hand to hand combat means standing still and slapping some armour, while the big bad swordsman sluggishly swings his sword at him.

You need to use some initative for once. This is related to the only point i mentioned, and intend on argueing for. Untill you stop thinking combat ig works this way.

Taliss Kazzxs · Post by **Taliss Kazzxs** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:38 pm

Returner do you even play this game any more or are you just here to spam topics and piss people off? You gave your opinion, you think wrestling is useless and should stay that way now go the smile on somewhere.

Ascius · Post by **Ascius** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:23 pm

I only read the first three pages, but I will refer to the topic. Some stuff about martial arts:

1. Fist against fist in real life - This is easy. Everyone can smack another one's face. This mostly happens when people are drunk or extremely angry. Those untrained people are mostly slow (eyes and body) and not utterly strong. (They can't use their force properly).

2. Martial Arts against fist fight - A trained one doing martial arts is often quicker in his movement and also his eyes can follow the movements of others. He knows how to use the power which is in his body (not only dumb biceps and triceps, but also width of shoulder, working with legs etc.)
It means being faster than the enemy, and if you are advanced you may even see what the enemy plans before the action was done. If you do it only a few years you are able to react on an action from the enemy properly.

3. Martial Arts against weapons - In real life, one can dodge someone using a knife at the earliest after 5 years of hard training safely.
Weapons are more dangerous than many think. To dodge a sword with martial arts one has to be really good and well trained.
There may be techniques, but I doubt someone could beat a person fully covered with metal armor only with fists. One may only try to bring that person down (though, people fully armed can just get up in Illa, in reality the armor was too heavy to).

Means there is not really a need to discuss about the reality of martial arts in Illarion.. It has to be unrealistic. Those cool Martial Arts movies where some people dodge a whole army with only fists or a small knife are what they are after all - movies.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:08 am

Taliss Kazzxs wrote:Returner do you even play this game any more or are you just here to spam topics and piss people off? You gave your opinion, you think wrestling is useless and should stay that way now go the smile on somewhere.

If this were my forum, I'd ban you for your trying to incite me into a flame war. Unfortunately, this is not my forum, and the nice people here let you stay.

I don't know what your personal issue is with me, but either pm me, or stop attacking me here, because you are not only not helping this thread, your looking like an ass.

Taliss Kazzxs · Post by **Taliss Kazzxs** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:42 am

The Returner wrote:
Taliss Kazzxs wrote:Returner do you even play this game any more or are you just here to spam topics and piss people off? You gave your opinion, you think wrestling is useless and should stay that way now go the smile on somewhere.
If this were my forum, I'd ban you for your trying to incite me into a flame war. Unfortunately, this is not my forum, and the nice people here let you stay.

I don't know what your personal issue is with me, but either pm me, or stop attacking me here, because you are not only not helping this thread, your looking like an ass.

*le shrugs

Im somewhat content with wrestling aside from those playing experienced monks and such are getting spanked by those with no skill. If anything changes I think it should be allowing parry against weapons to those that have near mastered the skill. Any chance we can get some dev feed back on the topic?

Jori · Post by **Jori** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:51 am

@Jori: Only correct if the loss of acceleration is the same as the gain in mass... You simply dont do martial arts very well in heavy armor.

The loss of the acceleration IS the same as gain is mass. The force that a person is able to apply is a constant. The gain in mass could be thought of as an "independent" factor and loss of acceleration depends on how much mass is gained so it is a dependent factor. They are proportional

I agree though, that you don't do martial arts wearing plate armor since one of the big ideas behind martial arts is speed and dodging attacks. The fact is, there IS no martial art that exists for when you are wearing 70 kg or whatever of armor to teh best of my knowledge. There was never any need for it since they were able to use swords, axes, and such.

Could you people take the flame war somewhere else? Like make a topic called "wrestling flame war" or something instead of littering this thread with it? If you have something to say that has to do with the topic, then great, go ahead and say it, I'd like to hear it. But if all it is is a "YOU"RE WR0NG STFU" or something similar then please, exhibit some self control and dont post that part of it. PM the guy you're flaming like Returner said, whatever. Just please don't ruin another good topic with a stupid flame war.

thanks *EDIT Maybe you guys didn't need the reminder... taliss posted while I was writing this and just ignored the flames. Follow the example

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:52 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour
http://www.castles.me.uk/medieval-knights-armor.htm

Its highly unlikely that a soldier would wear armor over 70-100lb(31-45kg gunpowder age, this stuff deflects 9mm rounds). A full suit of armor has weight well distrubuted, and tailor made to the wearer and a good blacksmith could make it quite flexible. So I mean really, 40-60lb well distrubuted is certainly not that heavy for what is classed as "heavy armor", especially with repeated practice in it you would become more or less "trained" in technique and muscles. A comment was made that modern soldiers carry more equipment, given someone who could afford armor had servants thats probobly true.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:57 am

Gro'bul wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour
http://www.castles.me.uk/medieval-knights-armor.htm

Its highly unlikely that a soldier would wear armor over 70-100lb(31-45kg gunpowder age, this stuff deflects 9mm rounds). A full suit of armor has weight well distrubuted, and tailor made to the wearer and a good blacksmith could make it quite flexible. So I mean really, 40-60lb well distrubuted is certainly not that heavy for what is classed as "heavy armor", especially with repeated practice in it you would become more or less "trained" in technique and muscles. A comment was made that modern soldiers carry more equipment, given someone who could afford armor had servants thats probobly true.

Plate armor in real life could allow you to climb back on your horse if you wanted to on your own, the weight distribution was perfect. However, plate armor was built customly for that person and that person alone. As a result it was as expensive as anything, and could only be worn by nobles or people who had a few thousand gold coins to spare.

So, don't use plate armor to compare, plate armor is too expensive, use splint mail if you want to compare a heavy armor which wont cost half a village.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1156094

Try moving around with that

Added:

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=banded%20mail

Still has a lot of gaps in it, even if it was designed after splint mail

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Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:01 am

Last post: almost a month ago

Has there been any changes?

has a developer read this?

Does the developer plan on changing it?

Can we have some feedback PLEASE?

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:21 pm

*giving a bucket full of fodder*

Kundra · Post by **Kundra** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:42 am

The champ is here!

if you smell what the rock is cookin'?

Oh hell yeah....i agree with what he said

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:49 pm

Didn't this get locked yet?

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:00 pm

The Returner wrote:Didn't this get locked yet?

No, instead its been left to decompose....

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:04 pm

...so let it <.<

Arien Edhel · Post by **Arien Edhel** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:26 pm

Must I start to delete again

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:10 pm

I think its lock time Arien :/