What is wrong with illarion/Was läuft falsch in Illarion

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:36 am

The "nonsense" you describe is extremely rare, at least from what I have seen. Also, suprise is something that has happened many times before, and the online viewer doesn't hinder that, I don't think there is anyone who logs in and then minimizes, and looks at the online player page while clicking reload over and over and over.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:38 am

Moirear Sian wrote:How exactly are you going to sneak through a town as a criminal if you have players monitoring the online player list and double their watch and halve their RP because they spot a wanted criminal's name in the list?

Wha?!

That's it, the Online Player Viewer must be deleted, broken, destroyed and burned. Soon, right now if possible.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:41 am

Online player viewer,
Pros:
Many if us have busy lives or play other games,it is often I confess to being sitting working on my pc check the forums and online viewer I see 4 people I really like rping with. Set the work aside an hour I am in.
-------------
I sit around town for 10 minutes I do not see any one, I check the only player viewer and see 6 people on. Some of them I know so I wait around or go looking for them. Other wise I would propably just logg off.
-------------
A few of the more liked/exciteing players get on, a few more people logg in suddenly we are hitting the 20's. It works as an advertisment for a good time to be on. I see names logg at these times I dont see most days. As such I must assume with out knowing who X-Y-Z is online they would not play at all.
------

Cons,
We all check it to often I sometimes decided weather to stay or leave by it. "just being honest"
-----
I see an enemys name I try and pretend I dont know he is lurking but some place in the back of my mind I do. I am sure that affects my rp.
----
People see high numbers and logg on true enough. But if they logg in randomly and game appears empty do you really think they are going to stay around any longer. Infact they may simply not bother to logg in at all.
------------
Removing it is going to encourage even more ooc communication about ingame events. Players will make even more effort to know each other on msn. This may be good for the community, how ever it will also lead to a quick message "so and so is on i saw him,lets go hunt him". Which is propably happeing any way useing the online player list. Just if it isnt there we are making it even more appealing to conspire ooc.

I dont know what the right choice is, but there are the points both sides as i see them. I would prefer to see it stay as at the moment I believe it brings more players in that it drives away. At this moment we need players when we are getting 20+ every night for most of it. By all means expirement with removeing it.
Brian

Japheth · Post by **Japheth** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:49 am

Removing it is going to encourage even more ooc communication about ingame events. Players will make even more effort to know each other on msn. This may be good for the community, how ever it will also lead to a quick message "so and so is on i saw him,lets go hunt him". Which is propably happeing any way useing the online player list. Just if it isnt there we are making it even more appealing to conspire ooc.

The online player list is the lesser of two evils. Back in the days of a certain organisation, there were notorious claims flying back and forth that people were communicating via MSN in order to boost their ranks in-game. This just made people suspicious of one another for OOC and roleplay diminished. Nobody wants to return to the days of the townguard sitting on one side of the river, with the notorious organisation sitting on the other in utter silence, while both sides chatted away on MSN.

I'm sure that this still happens of course, but by totally removing the Online Players List (hereafter referred to as the OPL), you leave players to their machinations on MSN, increasing the aforementioned issue.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:52 am

That's odd, I've never had MSN *cough*

Japheth · Post by **Japheth** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:55 am

Or AIM. *cough*

Anyway, re-reading my post up there, it seems a little harsh. I wasn't pin-pointing or accusing either group, just pointing out what the arguments on the off-topic board were about at the time.

Personally, the entire thing bored the hell out of me and I'd rather not see a return to the form of Summer 2003.

Raven Destial · Post by **Raven Destial** » Wed May 25, 2005 1:04 am

My opinion on the topic of the online player viewer seems to be in contrast with a few of the younger players here. There are many of us who do enjoy roleplaying and prefer the character interaction more than gaining skills by spending their time alone in game working at some craft or wandering through the entire map looking for a character to interact with. Many of us who have less free time than those players who are still in school, for us, the online player viewer is a great asset. We can glance at the website and see if there are enough players online to have a reasonable chance of encountering them in order to interact with them. If the number of people online is below a certain number, we can then go do something else with our spare time. In a perfect world where we were all 17 again and had hours upon hours of free time to waste, the need for small conveniences such as this to save time would not be needed, but the reality is that this tool is extremely useful to us.

I will say though that if the ability to see the number of players online using the website remained but the names of those players were removed, it would serve the same purpose for those like myself. We could easily see if there was a chance to encounter someone without having to search the entire map in order to interact with anyone, which may or may not be in contrast to the character's personality to begin with. The map growing so large is amazing, it will provide incredible opportunities for magnificent roleplay but it comes with a cost. If there is no ability to see how many others are online, players may be marching their characters around the map for hours to find the other meandering souls.

It is still a game though and being able to see which characters you may or may not interact with at any given time can help narrow down your possibilities of ways to spend your real life time while playing this game, ie. which character you should play to best add to a roleplaying event already in progress, or you would most enjoy interacting with other characters already online, but if you don't trust yourself or other players enough to keep the list of players online, at least keep the number of players online available.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Wed May 25, 2005 1:24 am

Just like to add, I in no way oppose means of reading numerical values of how many players are online, but reading who exactly is online is unnecessary and partially responsible for alot of situations that are overly artificial. I'm not saying anything will get any better or worse by removing the OPL, but it's definitely worth giving a try, I'd like to repeat what Vindigan suggested. I'm under the impression the OPL just creates overly artificial RP situations, rather than people playing the same character more extensively and with more dedication and learning how to adapt and react flexibly to other people's RP.

Personally speaking, I did not understand the people who complained about having to get set up OOC because of the new map... I even log in when there's zero on, I log in when I feel like playing, regardless of who I will encounter when and with whatever character I'm playing.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Wed May 25, 2005 1:33 am

I do that to, how ever i can only be honest and say sometimes seeing either a large number of players or 5 I really love online motivates me to put aside my work or what ever other game I am doing and get into illarion.
It is not a make or break issue for my part as honestly many players I would get off the couch for so to speak I am in contact with often anyway and I really try and avoid acting on any knowledge the opl gives IC.
I believe my Pro's and Cons..were pretty balanced I am up for trying it.
No tears this side.
I do how ever fear it may cost us a few players at a time when the game is just returning to a state I am personally happy with. Perhaps the question should be is the OPL costing us players currently ? I do not believe so, could it be getting one or two extra names in game a night ?
Possibly...
End point do we want to rock the boat now of all times ?
Brian

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Wed May 25, 2005 1:54 am

In any case, players would find a means of communication somehow.

I agree though, that getting rid of it would prevent people from thinking "not many people online, why should I get on?" For organizing log in times for quests and stuff, e-mail or PMs can be used, right?

I also agree that seeing who's on and who isn't would be kind of an annoyance, because it would eliminate the element of surprise when you find that person IG. The surprise is a way to open up lots of drama in my experience.

I really only use the Online Player Viewer to see if the server crashed or not (when I log out, but I still see my character's name in the list). The Server Status thing on the main page is the true unreliable little thing.

Remember when the server was said to be offline when it really was online, for like a week? I didn't log in at all at that time.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Wed May 25, 2005 7:37 am

I agree with the reasons Raven Destinal gave.

And I remember the old days, when a message was ingame, xy logged in, xy logged out (in these former times everyone knew at once, who was in or out). The OPL was after long discussions there the resolution for those, who wanted the ingame messages back and those who wanted them deleted.

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed May 25, 2005 8:37 am

You should all be aware that you are describing a vicious circle again and again.

Martin

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Wed May 25, 2005 6:36 pm

Delakaniam wrote:I think it would be a little too contradictory to have both versions ingame, at the same time.

Not half as contradictory as having to figure things out.

Aragon wrote:I want to buy one more bag.
Timo will react.

I can actually see the logic there... the developer idea was that you couldn't put bags within bags, so that when you are missing a bag, you "buy one more bag", but otherwise you won't need them, so that's why they don't have number declarations? Anyway you take it, though, it doesn't fit the logic of the rest of the NPC interaction speech, how should anybody guess things like this?

"Find out in game"?

Second, the NPCs do not react to any #me's as far as I know, so RP-wise, a mute character does what—writes #me's to show they're trading with an NPC, and use "#w ((I want to buy one more bag))" ? Call me xenophobic if you like, but the NPC trading system being demoted to a pure-speech-system was really the only change I've disagreed with so far. Not even the system itself, but that it replaced the old interface. I still insist, this is called graphical RPG, and I think both variants should be possible some day. We will always have some frustrated players who will complain about the NPC speech system. Don't get me wrong now, I'm not saying it should be removed—it's a nice gimmick!

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed May 25, 2005 6:52 pm

Moirear Sian wrote: I can actually see the logic there... the developer idea

Uh, it's a bug, actually. A bag bug.

Martin

Sylveria · Post by **Sylveria** » Wed May 25, 2005 7:16 pm

Moirear Sian wrote:Second, the NPCs do not react to any #me's as far as I know, so RP-wise, a mute character does what—writes #me's to show they're trading with an NPC, and use "#w ((I want to buy one more bag))" ?

Now that Sian mentions it, this is a true problem that I have encountered ^ ^o When I first logged into the game as Sylveria on the new server, the first thing I noticed is..... "Oh my gosh.... am I supposed to make her SAY, 'I want to be a craftsman/fighter/mage' ???"

umm..... but I had still had to make my silent character say it

I tried to find different ways of telling the npc's what was needed, without actually speaking, but none of them worked since there is only one format available for such requests. But besides this problem with Sylveria, I DO like the new NPC system a little better ^ ^o I'm still trying to think of roleplay solutions around the problem

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Wed May 25, 2005 7:22 pm

Just rp showing them the card and whsipering the keywords.

Erart Ridoc · Post by **Erart Ridoc** » Wed May 25, 2005 10:03 pm

As a mute player I have discovered the trick to this

#me hands the ((NPC)) an note saying "I would like to buy one more bag"
#me hands the ((NPC)) a note saying "I would like to sell 5 axe handles"

There ya go, hope I helped

Delakaniam · Post by **Delakaniam** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:11 am

Well, this might be good to know, if any of the mute characters' players were wondering. I did a little testing ingame....

Character (w): hello
Mugush: Good day. Do you need something?
Character (w): "what do you sell?"
Mugush: I sell all kinds of wares for everyday useage.
Character (w): Hoo haaaa what in all the bloody island is going on what do you sell?
Mugush: I sell all kinds of wares for everyday useage.
Character grunts "what do you sell?".
Mugush: I sell all kinds of wares for everyday useage.
Character (w): ((what do you sell?)
Mugush: I sell all kinds of wares for everyday useage.

*Grinning*.

Sylveria · Post by **Sylveria** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:16 am

LoL!!

It's good to know that the keywords are working well!

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:22 am

@Erart: Good ideas there.

Well, working or not, there are certain aspects I don't like about the speech system. Just to explain though: they're not much of a problem to me anymore, because if I don't know what to ask already, I'll just ask someone else and eventually find out how it's done. I must nitpick here however, because I see an overwhelming amount of naysayers who are essentially saying this system is great without stopping for a moment to think of some critique.

Just an example of things that annoyed me greatly about it:
"what do you sell" --> npc describes roughly what he/she sells
"list your wares" --> npc describes exactly what he/she sells

Why am I the only person who sees trouble here? Guessing "what do you sell" was easy, "list your wares" I would have never guessed, luckily someone just told me off the game. But! Being told that was well over a week after the wipe, the time I had been most actively playing post-wipe; in short, the most I've played I've tried to avoid NPCs because I don't feel like making all my characters look like monkeys when they're not supposed to.

Turonga Mudwater · Post by **Turonga Mudwater** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:23 am

I see no reason to log on when no ones on, Turonga cant do anything without other players and im sure no one really wants to get on when I'm on, so its pointless for me to gte on...I do it from time to time and just wait for someone, but few people come, this is one of the benefits I see of a smaller map. Everything needs to be centralized in a community with a high of 20 players online. if we want RP to go on things need to be centralized because if someones on, there not in town and that person goes to look for them then another player goes to look for one of them then theres 3 players online but none of them to be found because they arent going to find the other person.

Grutok Corad · Post by **Grutok Corad** » Thu May 26, 2005 4:48 am

i dont play very much for several reasons:
1) the bugs on the main skills, carpentry, smithing, druidery, magic(i know they are being worked on but they are still there and playing will help none)
2)to many PGers!!!! they are every where...first day of the new map i met a lizzard who could already make wooden spoons!!!
3)map is very large and walking takes 60-70% of my playing time
4)wepons and tools dissapear to rapidly...once i bought a pickaxe mined 40 iron and it dissapeared

these are a few of several, i loved illarion and all the people in it but ever since like many said the RPing is horrible...i know there are quests and all this but there are no clans or anything because the town of Trollsbane rulles all of the game, all revolves arround it because it has eliza. I loved being a BloodSkull, that was the best time of my entire gaming life because i was apart of something great.

martin · Post by **martin** » Thu May 26, 2005 8:33 am

Grutok Corad wrote:i dont play very much for several reasons:
1) the bugs on the main skills, carpentry, smithing, druidery, magic(i know they are being worked on but they are still there and playing will help none)

It helps the developers, you are TESTING a game.

3)map is very large and walking takes 60-70% of my playing time

Then just stay at one place.

4)wepons and tools dissapear to rapidly...once i bought a pickaxe mined 40 iron and it dissapeared

Instead of whineing around you should try to find someone to make you a decent pickaxe. You complain about missing RP and tell us that you don't try to RP in the next sentence.

Martin

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Thu May 26, 2005 8:51 am

Just log in and play. Explore the map. Report bugs. The more of you are doint exactly that, the faster it will get better.

The staff is discussing different transportation systems at the moment.

Felkin Fennikish · Post by **Felkin Fennikish** » Thu May 26, 2005 9:39 am

delete

reidan · Post by **reidan** » Thu May 26, 2005 10:38 am

I dont like the skill cap. I login about 20 hours after logging out and kill 6 zombies and it already says "you can't consentrate on learning right now" it gets kind of anoying not being able to learn anything.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Thu May 26, 2005 2:22 pm

Gosh reidan, you don't want to know what it was like before the wipe.
It took me 6 months to get a fighter from 'wimp' to 'decent combattant'.
Despite the cap being so obvious these days, you actually skill up quite a bunch quicker than it used to be pre-wipe.

Wops, before I forget:

Someone who authored the text (on the front page of the website) wrote:This game is about true roleplaying, not that much about levelling up or hunting monsters - there are no experience points too.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Thu May 26, 2005 3:00 pm

Just a comment: No one hinders a char to slash monsters untile the blade glows. It just has no benfit speaking about stats, but hey, does your char care about stats?

I think the MC-System is well balanced (Hail Martin... once again

). One can learn a craft or a fighting skill without shift clicking like a maniac but there is a brake that prevents too fast skill grow. The old system was: Who clicks most gets most skill. The new system is: Who clicks at a sane rate gets enough to prevent frustration. In the old days, to raise a skill from 50 to 51 (that is a mediocre skill), one needed around 100 actions; 100 swords that had to be crafted, you can count the clicks for that in the current system...

Grutok Corad · Post by **Grutok Corad** » Thu May 26, 2005 5:44 pm

Martin i dont need you bitching at me...this page was a question, all i did was simplely answer. he wanted yo know why the older players don play much and i told him why this older player doesnt. Personally, i dont like you but you put on one hell of a show when it comes to programming and id hate to miss what you come out with next

Erart Ridoc · Post by **Erart Ridoc** » Thu May 26, 2005 7:42 pm

I have one complaint, My parry skill seems to have went down, along with my lumberjacking skill, and my smithing which I dont understand anyways because I never smithed anything. I mean its not anything to get bitchy about I was just wondering if there was a skill wipe, or some special reason why the skill went down.

But other than that the only reason why I havent been playing as much is because I am sick, but I am still on the forums