Right my humble thoughts and proposed solutions to the wipe

[Domitrio]

I suppose that Domitrio didn't matter to many people. Since he's been gone for some time anyway.. I don't think it'll matter. Sorry if I offended anyone, but I just am going to jump at the chance to start over. I just hope you guys keep that option open as well. We don't often get a charwipe (It's been hinted at since... before RP was enforced ) so just make the best of it. Whichever way they go.. I hope everyone is at least satisfied, since not everyone can be happy.

[Bloodhearte]

Which happens to be true for many people on the other side..

How so? There's nothing to gained IG by this wipe from my point of view.

Likewise for the request to just keep doing what we've been doing, I know that is so completely unreasonable, but try and be understanding.

Then what would be the point of a wipe outside of technical stuff? I say if the wipe is going to be done, we should go the Full Niner and start from a white sheet, not wussy out by using the same old characters, with the same old stories, and the same old history.

The explanation IG would be lame anyway. "Some God used that device from Men in Black that wipes out memories, and now we lost items and I forgot how to do my craft."

[Fooser]

Same old characters? Same old history?

I dont find either old or boring.

[Jeremy Gems Willowbrook]

Then what would be the point of a wipe outside of technical stuff? I say if the wipe is going to be done, we should go the Full Niner and start from a white sheet, not wussy out by using the same old characters, with the same old stories, and the same old history.

The explanation IG would be lame anyway. "Some God used that device from Men in Black that wipes out memories, and now we lost items and I forgot how to do my craft."

On behalf of the entire community...thanks for the insult. Basically you are saying than none of us nor all of us together can write a decent story. Thanks for that.

If you have decided to start a new character anyway then you are getting your fresh start. Unless what you are saying is that you do not like all the history that has built up which is why you want it wiped?
Come up with a good story and you can get the best of both worlds. A fresh start to a new period of history. But with the opportunity to continue old stories if you want to. (Bearing in mind that some storylines might be forced to end due to characters not being continued, etc.)
If people put as much effort into coming up with a story as they did arguing about pointless things we could write war and peace for Illarion in no time.

[Hermie]

I think it's right to let the players choose. There will be a time of chaos and then everything will settle into place. All after a few good arguments. Since no-one can truely predict the future I think we would do best to wait and see what happens. For now, enjoy the last moments of calm before the storm.

[Bloodhearte]

On behalf of the entire community...thanks for the insult. Basically you are saying than none of us nor all of us together can write a decent story. Thanks for that.

If you have decided to start a new character anyway then you are getting your fresh start. Unless what you are saying is that you do not like all the history that has built up which is why you want it wiped?
Come up with a good story and you can get the best of both worlds. A fresh start to a new period of history. But with the opportunity to continue old stories if you want to. (Bearing in mind that some storylines might be forced to end due to characters not being continued, etc.)
If people put as much effort into coming up with a story as they did arguing about pointless things we could write war and peace for Illarion in no time.

I didn't say nobody could write a decent story. I'm saying that, simply, I don't care. Somebody on here could be the next Shakespeare, but I won't care because reading it wouldn't influence my play in any way.

I don't play games for literary interpretations...that is what my World Lit class is for...I play games for fun. It is just my opinion that maybe Illarion would be much more interesting if there were completely new characters, associations, encounters, etc.

[Jeremy Gems Willowbrook]

It is just my opinion that maybe Illarion would be much more interesting if there were completely new characters, associations, encounters, etc.

Dont you get this anyway? There are new characters coming IG all the time, starting new stories, etc.
Having a history behind the game gives it more depth and flavour. Also it provides a wealth of opportunities for RP and quests, etc. Old events can spawn new quests. Old enemies can return to haunt the Isle (literally in some cases). Plus all the new events and quests.
Without the history there are only the new events and quests.

[Cliu Beothach]

I don't play games for literary interpretations...that is what my World Lit class is for...I play games for fun.

Some of us enjoy this . I like being around some chars even without interacting with them, just to see them roleplay.

[Galim]

Thank you Gwynnether for your words, I couldn't have said it better ever with my english. I see it like you. you are really right

[Bloodhearte]

Some of us enjoy this . I like being around some chars even without interacting with them, just to see them roleplay.

Man, I only watch people role play if a character of mine is trying to isolate a character so he can mug him later. *coughSiancough*

[The Returner]

Nobody is zapping your brain, trying to delete your memories, nor is anybody blowing your house up, etc...it's just being requested that you start from scratch on a role playing game. Sheesh.

Likewise for the request to just keep doing what we've been doing, I know that is so completely unreasonable, but try and be understanding.

Illarion is a game. Not only is it a game, its been around for nearly a decade (Seven years I think, someone correct me?) So its an aging game, not only is it an aging game, that has outlived many many mmorpg's, its also an alpha test, and not ONLY is it an alpha test, it was made as an experiment by college students, years ago, who probably never thought it would expand even this much (many of them now gone), not to mention, it should have been gone after their college term, so you all are extremely lucky this conversation is even happening.

The defination of computer game almost literally means, lines of code to create an interactive enviroment, which means, if you can't seperate with something so material, then you shoulden't be a roleplayer, period.

All roleplayers like their characters and work, fine, maybe some don't like the history, thats fine too, I'm sure we get the "Waaahhh all my RP hours are gone, waaaahhh I'm going to cry in a corner now" point. But their not permenant beings, their NOT real people, their imaginary figments of the mind created for a purpose of having fun, not for the purpose of creating a matrix-like alter-reality which is how the majority of you are acting at this time.

Some of us have been here for years, in fact, many of us arguing have been here for years, But I notice the ones crying the most are the ones that have been here days, weeks, and months, many have hardly any knowledge of the history they want to so-called save.

Illarion is old, its aging, many of *us* using the term lightly, old players, feel that its time for a little change, and a little refreshing.

Look at our side too, instead of saying we're the cold ones, and listen:

How are you going to continue on, when several of the key figures in the illarion world are pro-new characters and pro-fresh start? These people are not going to continue characters they dislike for your benifet. Technicly, your character won't know what happaned, because any story that explains it is so full of wide gaping holes that its nearly impossible to have any logical explanation.

Towns, Buildings, Guilds, all were created by players once, years ago, do you know how many of those players are gone now? don't you think, if given the promise of a fresh start, some of your old friends might come back for a while? Or are you that selfish, that its only such "Recent" memories are what your bitching about losing, and not the actual quality of roleplay?

Its a game, and all your concerned about is explaining how to continue it. Wheres the fun in trying to explain a technical err? Your going to go through hell to write a decent story over the next days, then probably won't even like it then, so you'll get your wish to continue....skilless....memoryless...and minus a bunch of other players anyway, and probably not only you, but your so beloved characters will be miserible.

[Hermie]

One question. What will happen to the RPG and Guilds pages on the forums?

I guess the Guilds will stay, but .. how does your Guild rp losing its entire treasury along with (probably) most of it's members, even though the building (they may have) still remains.

I'm not asking to attack anyone, I'm just very curious.

Very confused,
POH

[The Returner]

One question. What will happen to the RPG and Guilds pages on the forums?

I guess the Guilds will stay, but .. how does your Guild rp losing its entire treasury along with (probably) most of it's members, even though the building (they may have) still remains.

I'm not asking to attack anyone, I'm just very curious.

Very confused,
POH

I proposed to have both boards also wiped.

[Kaledon Mordaine]

You know, I don't accept that point. Do you really think it would be That hard to come up with a reasonable explanation? At this point, even a full wipe wouldn't make that much sense in RP. Oh, we're all on this island but we don't have a single skill among us, we lack any equipment, and we don't know any other person. No matter what, explanations are gonna need to made.

Also, Returner, what does Illarion being an aging game have to do with keeping the history of a character, and the interactions of a character? So, just because it's an old game, and people are lucky to have it, those who want to keep their characters should scrap them because they're lucky? That make absolutely no sense to me.

You know, maybe they aren't whining about losing RP hours, and stuff like that, because they can't accept that, maybe it's just that they don't feel they NEED to lose their chars. What requirement is there, that forces them to Have to lose all of that? As far as I can see, there is none.

I have to say Returner, in my opinion your side would actually have a better chance if you Stopped arguing. Because to me, most of your posts come off as petty. At the very least, they are phrased in a hostile manner, definitely not calculated to prove your point. It just seems more like an attack on those who don't agree with you.

[The Returner]

You know, I don't accept that point. Do you really think it would be That hard to come up with a reasonable explanation?

Works Both ways Pal.

Also, Returner, what does Illarion being an aging game have to do with keeping the history of a character, and the interactions of a character? So, just because it's an old game, and people are lucky to have it, those who want to keep their characters should scrap them because they're lucky? That make absolutely no sense to me.

Proving the point I made.

You know, maybe they aren't whining about losing RP hours, and stuff like that, because they can't accept that, maybe it's just that they don't feel they NEED to lose their chars. What requirement is there, that forces them to Have to lose all of that? As far as I can see, there is none.

Contradiction, if they dont feel they NEED to lose their characters, then they really cannot accept losing the RP hours can they? Thanks for proving me right, again.

I have to say Returner, in my opinion your side would actually have a better chance if you Stopped arguing. Because to me, most of your posts come off as petty. At the very least, they are phrased in a hostile manner, definitely not calculated to prove your point. It just seems more like an attack on those who don't agree with you.

I have to say, taking personal pot-shots is more petty then I ever was.

[Kaledon Mordaine]

Hmm, you didn't actually read my post did you? You just scanned it for stuff that you thought could be used to prove your own points. In my post, I said, and I quote "No matter what, explanations are gonna need to made." So by telling me that no matter what happens, we're gonna have to make an explanation, you're just mimicking what I already said. Nice.

And to your second 'point'. How exactly does that prove anything? Because what you said doesn't make sense to me? Ah, so that must prove it! That's perfectly logical... Oh, and in case you don't realize because you haven't been understanding my posts, i'm being sarcastic.

Let me see if I understand this.
"Contradiction, if they dont feel they NEED to lose their characters, then they really cannot accept losing the RP hours can they? Thanks for proving me right, again." So what you're saying is that just because they Want to keep their characters, and they Don't think that it is necessary, that they are obviously in the wrong? You know, it's my opinion that if they HAD to lose their characters, they would accept that, at least most of them. But at this point, they don't have to. Why should they go with a choice they don't like? Because you want them to?

Personal potshots? Hmm, you know, I don't think I ever attacked you. I simply attacked your posts, because they were coming off as being petty and hostile. Thanks for proving My point by claiming that I was doing the same to you.

[The Returner]

Lets attack some posts then,

First, your trying to argue for the option 2, I see, at least, thats how you come off as, so lets see here....what evidence do we find to support this, other then your last two posts which are contradictory themselves...

So you're saying that what the players wish matters not? As far as I can see, at this point, it's not necessary for it to be a completely fresh start. You may prefer that, but not everyone does. At this point, I would think that what the players want would matter. Or should those that really don't want to have to start over just get screwed over because Hey! It's not That bad!?

Hmm, yet you contradict yourself with these:

I have to agree with you there, Bloodhearte. Leaving some things mysterious can actually be better than letting the players know everything. It offers a lot of potential for quests, and stuff like that.

Well, it seems bloodheartes mystery "Explanation" Already tickled your fancy.

But that is not the point. The point isn't how much time they spent on their characters, or whatever. It's that they don't want to lose the history, the background that they have worked for. I don't think it's that they think that everything will be wasted, it's that they don't want to lose the opportunity to continue with their cherished characters. They don't want a fresh start. Also, about server crashes, if that happens, tough. But that doesn't mean they should Want it to be that way. If something happens that is out of anyone's control, then that's too bad. But it doesn't mean that just because it Can happen, that it should.

Isent this contradictory to this:

Also, I would mention that I don't actually favor any of the options.

And if you truely don't, then stop debating, as your only pitting both sides against each other more so.

I have to disagree with you in some ways. I don't believe that people are messed up in the head just because they are truly attached to their characters. Perhaps some of them are a bit scary about it, but I wouldn't call them deranged.

And isent this, contradictory to this:

You know, maybe they aren't whining about losing RP hours, and stuff like that, because they can't accept that, maybe it's just that they don't feel they NEED to lose their chars. What requirement is there, that forces them to Have to lose all of that? As far as I can see, there is none.

Please read your own posts before "attacking mine"

[Moirear Sian]

Towns, Buildings, Guilds, all were created by players once, years ago, do you know how many of those players are gone now? don't you think, if given the promise of a fresh start, some of your old friends might come back for a while? Or are you that selfish, that its only such "Recent" memories are what your bitching about losing, and not the actual quality of roleplay?

I'd like to add something to this.
One of the main arguments I read about continuing old characters—as they are now—are paramount to saying that there would be no RP whatsoever if all the guilds, key characters, and other elements went missing, while map data like buildings remain.

This is NOT true.

I've played UO on several "shards" that came out of nowhere, starting with new playerbases, starting from zero, and the lack of a common in-character past for people to fall back on should neither detract from anybody's ability to roleplay, nor should it mean the game consists of powergaming your stats to be a specialist in something, or rushing to claim ownership over locations spread out over a map. In the contrary, I've even experienced excellent roleplaying on some of these shards.

I think Hermie's post above deserves alot of deeper consideration before you decide to continue old characters and old organizations after the wipe.

[Kaledon Mordaine]

None of those posts contradicted each other. I'm not sure where you get that, I guess you just love to read false meanings into my posts. Whatever. Also, I still don't favor either option. I just disagree with what certain People say. I couldn't care less what happens, but i'm still gonna argue with those that I think are in the wrong.

Also, just because I agreed with something Bloodhearte said, that means I am contradicting myself? Wow. All I did was agree that leaving certain things mysterious can be as good or better than explaining everything. If you can't see that, then you obviously aren't actually reading my posts. But then, I think I already knew that.

So i'm pitting the sides against each other even more so? No, I don't think so. I think that what I am doing is arguing with You, not the other side, just you.

And how does this "I have to disagree with you in some ways. I don't believe that people are messed up in the head just because they are truly attached to their characters. Perhaps some of them are a bit scary about it, but I wouldn't call them deranged."

Contradict this "You know, maybe they aren't whining about losing RP hours, and stuff like that, because they can't accept that, maybe it's just that they don't feel they NEED to lose their chars. What requirement is there, that forces them to Have to lose all of that? As far as I can see, there is none."

I don't think it does actually. If you could point out what made you think that, it might make more sense, but right now it just looks like you're quoting me constantly and then just saying i'm contradicting myself. If you can't actually back up any of this, then really, it's not going to mean much.

[The Returner]

I couldn't care less what happens

I repeat:

And if you truely don't, then stop debating,

So i'm pitting the sides against each other even more so? No, I don't think so. I think that what I am doing is arguing with You, not the other side, just you.

Then take this to PM's which I can conviently clear my inbox of, instead of arguing with specificly me in public.

I don't think it does actually. If you could point out what made you think that, it might make more sense, but right now it just looks like you're quoting me constantly and then just saying i'm contradicting myself. If you can't actually back up any of this, then really, it's not going to mean much.

Whose not reading whose posts?

Contradiction, if they dont feel they NEED to lose their characters, then they really cannot accept losing the RP hours can they? Thanks for proving me right, again.

[Kaledon Mordaine]

Just because you asked me to stop, doesn't mean I have to. I did read that, but it doesn't apply. Like I said, I disagree with you, and I believe that my counter-arguments are something that should be on the boards, where people will see them. I don't think that PMing you would do anything. I never said it was a private discussion with you, I just said that I was arguing with you.

And, about what you said, let me see if I can figure out what you meant. If they don't think they MUST lose their characters, then they can't stand losing the RP hours? How does that make sense? If I understand correctly, what you are saying is that if they don't Want to lose their characters, they are being unreasonable and coudln't possibly deal with Having to lose them? That makes little sense to me.

[The Returner]

Just because you asked me to stop, doesn't mean I have to. I did read that, but it doesn't apply. Like I said, I disagree with you, and I believe that my counter-arguments are something that should be on the boards, where people will see them. I don't think that PMing you would do anything. I never said it was a private discussion with you, I just said that I was arguing with you.

And, about what you said, let me see if I can figure out what you meant. If they don't think they MUST lose their characters, then they can't stand losing the RP hours? How does that make sense? If I understand correctly, what you are saying is that if they don't Want to lose their characters, they are being unreasonable and coudln't possibly deal with Having to lose them? That makes little sense to me.

Okay, let me get this straight..

Your arguing with me, because you dissagree with me, simply because you don't like my posting style? So your arguing with me, for the sake of arguing, because your arguments are erroneus, because your just taking another point of view and switching back and forth as it suits your needs?

Considering I already proved we AGREE on key things, your still DISSAGREEING on them to make a point that you already agreed might be a good idea, but now don't?

That leaves me with two options:

Ignore you.

Or Argue with someone whose soul purpose is to argue with me, just because they don't like me.


Once again, I choose option #1

[Zare]

Out of the umpteen wipe threads around here, I have no idea where to post now. I read very little of anything that anyone else has posted. Call me ignorant if you will, but if I say anything that has already been said, I'm sorry.


I once read a fictional anti-DnD story written by a religious extremist. The main character of the story had a Dnd character who died, and became so depressed that she nearly committed suicide. I thought the whole thing ridiculous. But now, I see the way people whine at the suggestion that all history be erased, so I think perhaps the anti-DnD isn't quite as silly as it sounds. (nah... it is



Anyway, I have a proposal for the story behind the wipe (with erased history). After the wipe we will be sent into the future. Perhaps fifty, 100, or maybe even 1000 years. Enough to allow some time between now and then, but not so much that our orcs are running around with submachine guns.

Explorers find our island, and are amazed. They have heard the stories of these lands, of course, but it has been so long that anyone has made contact with the inhabitants that everyone just assumed that these stories were just myths. But even stranger than the fact that this legendary island exists, is that it is completely abandoned. Magnificant cities, but no people. Tools are still laying in smithies, books are still neatly placed in the bookshelves, food is still stored (though grotesquely rotted beyond recognition) in the pantries. There is no signs of any war or disease, it seems as though the people simply disappeared. The explorers search for any clues for the strange disappearances, but to no avail. They give up and set sail, bringing their exciting news with them. Shrugging off the ghostly absences of the previous inhabitants, monarchs of several far away kingdoms now send expeditions to settle the abandoned island.

That's my story, nothing more is needed to explain what happened in between now and then. Personally, I think the mysterious aura the island will now have to be quite surprising. Perhaps later we will learn what really happened to everyone, and several quests will evolve.

-Zare

[The Returner]

Thats a good consensus zare, I can deal with that.

[Kaledon Mordaine]

No, Returner, I don't dislike you, and I don't even know much about your posting style. I simply disagreed with several things you mentioned in your posts. Then, you mistook the intent behind a few of my posts, and it went from there on. Not to say that it was completely your fault. Re-reading my posts it looks like I came off more hostile then I had intended. My apologies. I hold no ill will towards you. I hardly know you.

[cjauncey]

i have another idea

a fever grips everyone and they are put into a kind of sleep
they sleep for amny many years and in the time they have slept the continent has changed, they have grown weak from not practicing and there are new animals

just an idea

tell me what you think of it

[Aegohl]

I once read a fictional anti-DnD story written by a religious extremist. The main character of the story had a Dnd character who died, and became so depressed that she nearly committed suicide. I thought the whole thing ridiculous. But now, I see the way people whine at the suggestion that all history be erased, so I think perhaps the anti-DnD isn't quite as silly as it sounds. (nah... it is

Dark Dungeons is the Jack Chick tract that you speak of. It was part and parcel of the 80's Roleplaying scare that was fomented by the likes of Patricia Pulling who was parodied by the likes of Critical Miss.

[Zare]

Dark Dungeons is the Jack Chick tract that you speak of.

Hey, that's it! I'm quite surprised you knew what exactly it was from my lack of details.

[Galim]

I really hope that comic was just a joke...i don't want to beleive that peoples who think like that are really running around, that is somehow...frightening

[Dónal Mason]

If somebody kills themselves because of a game, then there is obviously an underlying mental problem.