Glyph Forgers

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Post by Banduk » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:16 am

Re: Glyph Forgers

There is a side issue that must be solved.
You must be a mage to be able to perform glyph magic. Since it is a flag, it's easy for a tester and dev.
But IG becoming a mage currently is woven into wand magic.
I think that has to be broken and redesigned.

Design proposal:
- The process starts by equipping a wand
- Chars not capable (attributes) or able (druids, priests) are informed why
- If possible there is a hint how to start the quest to become a mage.
- Quest starts by using the wand in the Temple of the Five
- Find and read 3 mage books
- Go back to the temple of the Five where you find a parchment with 5 multiple choice questions out of 15+
- The questions are basic: e,g.
Who is the God of the Fire? Bragon, Elara, Nargun
What is a mana line? An ambient structure where mana flows. A line, drawn by a mage with a wand. A line, only a mage can pass.
What was magic used for the very first time? Create the world by the Five. Raise the eleven Younger Gods. Create the magic gems of power.
What race can not use magic? Every race can use magic. Orcs are not able to use magic. Lizards are not able to use magic.
...
- The result if your answers were right will reach the char 2 play hour later. In case of success (4 of 5 right) you are a mage.
- Otherwise you have to redo the multiple choice questions. One can try again and again without limitations..

I think people with knowledge about Illarion will not have a problem to answer correct. Others are forced to read the books really. So we guarantee a minimum of lore compatibility.

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Post by Vern Kron » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:05 am

Re: Glyph Forgers

Wand magic I believe is intended to be used by mages only? I don't see how this is an issue.

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Post by Banduk » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:30 am

Re: Glyph Forgers

Enchanting glyphes into items can be done by mages only too.

The created items can be used by everybody (like potions and alchemists)

I don't think it's a good style one become a mage by using wand magic only. Compared to fighting it would be as if one must start with a dagger to allow swords, bows and clubs.

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Post by Banduk » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:55 am

Re: Glyph Forgers

Times are recalculated.
Total learning time for a 100% skill under optimal conditions will take about 130 play days (2 hrs each) and an incredible high amount of rare items.
The longest ritual takes 180 s.
There is only one skill.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

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Post by Banduk » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:25 pm

Re: Glyph Forgers

Fertig - Ready
I must sorry,
the realization for the glyph forging took almost twice the time than planned. I said 2-3 weeks and four weeks ago I wrote the first line of code. This delay is clearly not acceptable.
I think I’m ready with the coding and developer testing. The roughly 2000-2500 lines of code are ready to deploy into GID for approval. I’ll do that once the next update has been rolled out and proofed to be stable.
Nevertheless I’m not 100% finished.

The open issues.
Blocking
  • Replace the currently used graphics for shards and ritual place.
    I have no clue how to do and it seems nobody is able to tell how that can be done.
Necessary
  • Translation into English.
    I cannot speak English, the texts are shown here: https://notes.typo3.org/p/kahI2HWteQ
    Please correct direct in the document.
  • User documentation as IG book
    Planned to have it ready for translation: End of next week.
Nice to have
  • Create better graphics for shards and ritual place.
    This is a clear nice to have
  • Make a general ritual frame
    Isolate the ritual code and create a generic frame.
  • Minor code improvements
    Reduce double used code. (about 80 lines maybe removable)
  • FAQ’s
Once the system is on the dev server the team has to verify the code and approve. In case of a not very likely positive result extensive tests and balancing has to be performed by not yet named tester.
There are 10 further issues done with the glyph package. They cannot push separately since cross code influences.

Functions
The following functions are implemented. This is also the necessary test content:
GM Tools
  • GM tools - ceiling-throwel=>special items: creates single shards according to definition or randomly
  • GM tools - ceiling-trowel=>item: add glyph charges to an item
  • GM tools - lockpick=>character=>skills: glyph related skills
  • GM tools - lockpick=>global events=>Shard shower
Shards
  • Find shards on each gathering
  • Find shards in lower treasures
  • Find shards in monster loot
  • Find shards at 40 spots (1/16h at each spot a single, 1/day at one spot a shower)
  • lookAt showns approximately the remaining charges
Glyph ritual place usage
  • Mages can search a ritual place
  • At the ritual place everybody can check which own shards can be combined and which juwels can be glyphed
  • Mages can glyph a jewel at the ritual place
  • Ritual places disapear after 5 hours
  • A ritual place cannot be used during the last 6 min of it's existence
  • There is one fix ritual place near the Hempty planned
Glyph ritual place erection and preparation
  • Mages can erect a glyph ritual place if the skill is >25%
  • The distance in between 2 ritual places is at least 40 tiles
  • Ritual places have some conditions (free sight axis, access, ground, level 0)
  • Ritual places are signed by the mage who erected it.
  • Ritual places have to prepared by a mage in order to perform the glyphing.
  • Preparation is a own ritual and needs 2 candles and 2 little candlesticks.
Glyphing
  • Rings and amulets can be glyphed except the ordinary without gems, the achmage ring and the icebird amulet.
  • As higher the skill of the mage as more types of jewelry can be enchanted
  • Skill and attributes, the quality of the jewel and luck influences the number of charges for at creation.
  • Pretending the mage has sufficient mana the glyphing is always sucessful
  • Glyphs can be broken. The ring or amulet is lost.
  • The number of returned shards depends on the number of charges compared to the maximal possible number.
  • Lower skilled mages as well as less noble ring or amulet material have a bonus in returning shards by breaking glyphs.
Rituals
  • Search a glyph ritual place gives a little amount of skill for low skilled every 5-10 min. There must be one nearby.
  • Glyph forging based on a single skill "Enchanting of Jewels".
  • Mage learns during each ritual
  • Mana consuption is lower with higher skills.
  • The consumation of mana is lower if the wand is gemmed
  • If during a ritual a mage lost additional mana, the ritual may end without sucess.
  • The ritual ends without sucess if the mage moves during the ritual. Already consumed mana and food is lost.
  • If a wand is used, it degrades
Glyph application
  • It takes a few moments (2 min) from equiping until the effects of a glyphed jewelry can be used.
  • Glyphs are used with specific probabilities
  • As nobler the material of the ring (copper, silver, gold)
  • Jewels break with a certain probability if the last charge was used
  • There is a slightly higher probability to break for more noble jewel material once the glyphs were consumed.
  • Jewels with special description or name never break but lose 1-3 quality steps if the last charge was used.
Effects
  • There are 14 fighting (weapon and wand) and 14 crafting effects
  • Amethyst ring: The attacked enemy lost some move points.
  • Ruby ring: The attacked enemy is engulfed in flames for a few seconds.
  • Sappire ring: The attacked enemy is pushed a few steps back.
  • Obsidian ring: Both takes damage, the attacked enemy takes some more damage than you. The damage is proportional to your health.
  • Emerald ring: The attacked enemy lose movepoints over time.
  • Topaz ring: The attacked enemy takes higher damage.
  • Diamond ring: The attacked enemy takes additional damage over time.
  • Amethyst ring: The production speed increases.
  • Ruby ring: The production quality is better if a helper is at the workplace.
  • Sappire ring: It saves the usage of some material during production.
  • Obsidian ring: There is reduced probability of quality loss at NPCrepair under the costs of damage
  • Emerald ring: The durability loss of a tool while using in the workshop is reverted into a durabilty increase.
  • Topaz ring: There is a higher probability of a better production quality.
  • Diamond ring: There is a higher probability a lost quality can be restored on repair. A repaired item is marked as user origin.
  • Amethyst amulet: The attacking enemy lost some move points.
  • Ruby amulet: The attacking enemy is engulfed in flames for a few seconds.
  • Sappire amulet: You are pushed a few steps back from the attacking enemy.
  • Obsidian amulet: It protects the wearer from foreign glyphs but costs some drops blood
  • Emerald amulet: Paralyze the attacking enemy for a few moments.
  • Topaz amulet: The attacking enemy takes the damage you should have taken.
  • Diamond amulet: The attacking enemy takes the damage you should have taken over time.
  • Amethyst amulet: The user repair speed increases.
  • Ruby amulet: The probability a lost quality can be restored during user repair is higher if a helper is at the workplace.
  • Sappire amulet: It saves the usage of some material during user repair.
  • Obsidian amulet: There production quality is higher under the cost of some blood.
  • Emerald amulet: Monsters during gathering are chased away.
  • Topaz amulet: The probability a lost quality can be restored during user repair is higher.
  • Diamond amulet: There is a probability an item can reach a better quality than original crafted during user repair.
Hints
  • I urgently recommend the town leader NOT to build a glyph ritual place in the town. Such a location will harm the skilling capabilities of the local mages. It's much better to build a nice location near the gate where mages can build a ritual place.
  • Ask me direct in IRC if you don't understand anything. It's much easier and more efficient that a forum discussion.

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Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:22 am

Re: Glyph Forgers

All of this looks really good! Thanks Banduk.

I do want to point out something though I noticed in finesmithing, which is that some of the more expensive rings like emerald, topaz, and diamond use pure elements in creation. How is this handled fairly if these types while strong have less charges but more expensive materials? I know balancing is really hard but I don't think limiting the charges for gold or silver rings so much because why waste rare materials if a gold ruby ring can be as strong as a gold diamond ring?

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Post by Banduk » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:10 am

Re: Glyph Forgers

Charlotte-ate-wilbur wrote:All of this looks really good! Thanks Banduk.

I do want to point out something though I noticed in finesmithing, which is that some of the more expensive rings like emerald, topaz, and diamond use pure elements in creation. How is this handled fairly if these types while strong have less charges but more expensive materials? I know balancing is really hard but I don't think limiting the charges for gold or silver rings so much because why waste rare materials if a gold ruby ring can be as strong as a gold diamond ring?
I tried to make it in a way as higher the production costs for the jewelry as more powerful the effects.
Especially the topaz and diamond crafting effects are extremely powerful. Using a gold jewelry the probability of success if over 1 for a heavily damaged item. Being sure I can improve the quality of an weapon, wand or armory even beyond the original crafted in every second try is worth a few pure elements and merinium ingots.

A copper amethyst ring, a silver amethyst ring and a gold amethyst ring have the same effects. The number of charges is the same. The material influences the power of the effect only. I have a detailed list a few articles above.
To balance the lesser power of the lesser noble material there is a lower probability of loss once the glyphes are consumed. Additionally if one break a glyph that was produced for training only, the number of shards one get back is higher for lesser noble material and lower skilled mages. That way I hope a glyphed copper ring will find acceptance too and player will not buy gold jewelry only. Such a behavior would ruin the skilling for new chars almost totally.

On the other hand even the silver jewelry provides a reasonable power for the effects. So it will become a question of personal choice. How much I'm willing to pay for not so much more power.

The best choice for the balancing of all these numbers is a question of test. Don't expect a perfect balanced new magic system with the first version. This I cannot produce in an isolated environment on my local server. So once it is available on the dev server I wait for your comments on effect power and possible adaptations.

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Post by Banduk » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:15 pm

Re: Glyph Forgers

The glyph book is ready for proofread. The translation is done by google with a very few changes by me.
Das Glyphen Buch kann kontrollgelesen werden.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z4S ... sp=sharing

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Post by Caswir » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:46 am

Re: Glyph Forgers

Many thanks to Banduk for readying Glyph Forging. Looks cool.

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Post by Banduk » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:24 am

Re: Glyph Forgers

Achae Eanstray wrote:Another subject. I tested the artifact maker regarding jewelry. I like the way it is made with the ritual and the requirement of minimum mage stats. Provided the items (6 I believe) aren't hard to find it will work very nice.. I am hoping crafting is not required to find but the use of the wand would be.

I made my own in the dev. If very hard to find I'd recommend reducing the number.
The shards are found almost everywhere:
  • Find shards on each gathering
  • Find shards on lower treasures
  • Find shards in monster loot
  • Find shards at 40 spots (1/16h at each spot a single, 1/day at one spot a shower)
But shards are nothing you find on mass but on Mas ;-). They remain a relative rare item so you have to trade them to fill a set of seven.
The basic calculation is:
  • 2hrs play time / day
    consume 1 glyph with 7 shards a week
    1 mage per 7 player have to make 1 glyph a day.
    So everybody should find 1 shard a day.
Achae Eanstray wrote:The copper amethyst was tested (unable to make the gold one) after making and no MC was reduced using the jewelry the entire mana of my character and still showed 18/18. The MC was tested just once but that is a long time use to not affect the MC at all. Is this a bug/desirable/too large a variant?
The gold one needs a higher skill.
With MC you found a probable fault, thank you. I simply have overseen that. I'll work on.

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Post by Banduk » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:17 am

Re: Glyph Forgers

Achae Eanstray wrote:The copper amethyst was tested (unable to make the gold one) after making and no MC was reduced using the jewelry the entire mana of my character and still showed 18/18. The MC was tested just once but that is a long time use to not affect the MC at all. Is this a bug/desirable/too large a variant?
The gold one needs a higher skill.
With MC you found a probable fault, thank you. I simply have overseen that. I'll work on.[/quote]

According to code the MC was taken into consideration. The standard learning functions were used. I tested on local server with some different rituals. The MC increased see: https://imgur.com/a/T5laD (left: before, middle/right: after ritual; 3rd: a few idle moments later)

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Post by Damien » Fri May 04, 2018 11:03 am

Re: Glyph Forgers

Since Glyph forging is on the Dev Server for testing, we should seriously test this stuff !

Anyone with me ?

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Post by Sammy Goldlieb » Sat May 12, 2018 5:46 am

Re: Glyph Forgers

Yep, i aqm saying the same! Put it on the testserver!

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Post by Dantagon Marescot » Sat May 12, 2018 4:29 pm

Re: Glyph Forgers

Dev Server is the test server at this time. Create a dev server character and go in and test all the things!

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Post by Banduk » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:34 pm

Re: Glyph Forgers

Jupiter wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:22 am
I removed e.g. killer playing from your code ( https://github.com/Illarion-eV/Illarion ... dfc0aa093b ).
You are right, usually this was a security measure to act hard in case of a willful cheating player. I cannot imagine any other way to come to that position, but shit happen and therefore the already poor player who lost shards might not be punished more.

Jupiter wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:22 am
Furthermore, I want to remove creation of ritual places and instead just have static ones to create hotspots (I think you suggested that in one post somewhere as well).
Please take into consideration the following effects:
Skilling glyph forging is a very hard business. Build the forge is one of the possibilities to come from 25 to about 50% skill without having shards. Be aware you cannot forge 10 rings like doing 10 swords or potions. The necessary material simply is not available. Therefor finding the forge (0~5%), preparing the forge (0~30%) and creating a forge (25~55%) was developed.

Regarding the hot spot I think the possibility to build a forge anywhere outran the hot spot effect by at least one level if you count RP. Setting up a forge takes a long ritual (>60s) while the mage cannot move. Be aware there are not more than maybe 10 forges in safe areas possible. About 20-30 characters will fight for these locations with a cooldown of 6 hrs. Taking into consideration most of the mages will be dead after 60s attacked by a level 3 monster. So far the only reasonable way to skill is to go to hostile land. You have to build parties who protect the mage. That's way more RP possibilities.
Be aware a char can destroy an older forge. But there is a cooldown, so a single char cannot destroy more than one forge per shift. That gives the mage even more need to find one or even more assistants.
Enchanting a ring or amulet I'm quite sure the mages will take the next available forge, visible from the town gate. Nobody will risk to take the precious rare shards deep into the nowhere. So the town gate becomes that hot spot anyway.

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