[Race Guild] Dwarves of Galmair

[Karrock]

As it''s not currently possible to make a guild in wilderness for barbarian orcs (maybe later it will change). I propose to create a guild only for dwarves who live in Galmair. This is next matter why there exist no dwarf guild. As dwarves we could start crafting/working guild with system of ranks and protect our buisness and do some politics how to improve standard of dwarves living in within walls. Guild allignment would be neutral/good so it's not necessary to leave town. We could try to rent own building and start there own workshop if Don will agree. I have created two guilds and one club so I leave this matter to someone who feels strong enough to lead new guild.

Song which gives good atmosphere:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWz0qVvBZ0

[Athlon]

Grüß dich

nachdem ich deinen Beitrag durch den Googleübersetzer gejagt habe , kann ich dir dazu nur soviel sagen . vergiss es !!!

Tialdin hat sowas schon geplant !
Allerich hat sowas schon geplant !
Ich selber hab sowas schon geplant , das einzige was dabei rausgekommen ist war ,
das man Tialdin unter angaben falscher Gründe vom Kanzleramt abgesetzt hat und Tialdin und Allerich dem Spiel den Rücken gekehrt haben .

Was Reinrassiges mit was eigenem wäre ja ein Schritt zurück zum echten Illarion wie es mal war .

[Uhuru]

Yes, Tialdin did plan something like that once. But I do not understand... if they are to live and work inside Galmair, why they must have their own workroom. Why not just use the town facilities that are already available? Rent your guild hall for meetings and/living in. And work in and around the town like everyone else. Be a part of the community. The Don would very much like it if a guild brought in more trade and gold. He might even look favorably on them, especially if that was their main focus and not looking for trouble.

Perhaps a dwarven guild inside Galmair could work on making the town a better place to work in as a whole. More organized for everyone. Like the recent project to move the kitchen. I do like that change. Not sure others are needed, but it is something that a dwarven guild could look into.

Good luck with this! Sounds like it might be fun.

[Athlon]

Nicht böse sein Uhuru aber das Spiel der Zwerge war schon immer für sich zu sein ,
die eigene Werkstatt die Einsamkeit im Berg , die eigenen Bräuche und Sitten zu pflegen .

Natürlich ganz klar sich nicht ganz und von allen abschotten , das haben wir damals im alten Silberbrand auch nicht getan .
Auch dort gab es Bündnisse mit anderen Gilden . Besucher auch Elfen und Orks waren willkommen .
Natürlich könnte es auch ein Bündnis und Handelsabkommen mit dem Don geben aber
es ist aber was ganz anderes in einer Stadt zu leben wo zwar ein " Zwerg " auf dem Thron sitzt , aber vom Zwerg sein keine Ahnung hat ,
als in einer Stadt einer Gilde oder sonstwas zu spielen wo man weiß wie Zwergenspiel wirklich geht .

Nicht umsonst haben fast alle die einen Zwerg gespielt haben diesen in die Ecke gestellt und sich einen Char gemacht der gerade gefragt ist siehe Echsen und Orks .

Damals bei Tialdin haben sich die Zwerge wieder in Galmair gesammelt , es sind einige aus anderen Städten umgezogen Tialdin hatte den gleichen Gedanken wie jeder der ernsthaft einen Zwerg gespielt hat
aber diese Art zu Spielen ist hier nicht mehr möglich ... leider .

[Athlon]

Ich meine damit das sich das Spiel mit Meilenstein V selbst das Ziel gesetzt hat und
ich sag damit mal vorsichtig , jeder Gruppe die sich zusammenfindet , was eigenes zu geben .

Sollte dadurch eine bestehende Stadt vor die Hunde gehen , würde man auch erkennen das das System so nicht funktioniert hat .

Und ich denke auch auf Basis von Meilenstein V spielt zum Beispiel Ricewind und ihre Orks .

Das Argument dafür hat das Spiel insgesamt zu wenig Spieler zählt dabei nicht weil für diese Spielergruppe und IHR vorhaben gibt's genug unabhängige Orksspieler .

[GolfLima]

Rent your guild hall for meetings and/living in. And work in and around the town like everyone else.

the problem is, that some players like to play the "specific race characteristics" of their charakters more than others .... and this is sometimes not easy at the moment
my char never had the feeling that the Don (the archmage too, but my char has not many "meetings" with the archmage so that could be a wrong impression) is a dwarf .... he also could be a "speaking panda" or something else

[Karrock]

I have used transalator of google to translate your posts Athlon. I remember Silverbrand and Goldburg. I was last citizen of Goldburg and a player foundator of Goldburg also still plays. From your post I understood you are opposite to this idea. Tell me why? I see no causes to fear it's impossible. It would be not bad/evil guild and from Trollsbane we remember there existed dwarven own smithery for one guild. And some dwarves liked more to live in Trollsbane than in Silverbrand. Like my char was. I don't target to become leader. Really we don't need own kingdom. Trust me.

[Athlon]

Karrock ich habe nichts gegen deinen Vorschlag und auch nicht gegen deinen Versuch hier etwas zu bewegen .

Ich glaube nur nicht mehr daran das man hier wirklich etwas bewegen kann , dafür ist alles zu eingefahren und von zu vielen Entscheidungsträgern
abhängig die sich selber nicht einig sind , zumindest habe ich diese Erfahrung in den letzten Monaten gemacht .

Ich bin nur noch hier um meine Zeit die ich zu viel habe tot zu schlagen , ein wirkliches Ziel hab ich hier nicht mehr .

[Juniper Onyx]

Indeed! My character Chester Copperpot started and built Goldburg with his own hands! Later he fell in love with his mule

The purpose of Goldburg was a place that English speaking Dwarves could meet. At the times me and other English-speaking dwarves could play, Silverbrand was dead and locked up. My own efforts to join Silverbrand were very difficult and it was only after much politics, Goldburg was dreamed of. If the dwarves of German-speaking Silverbrand were more open and accepting, Goldburg would not have been necessary and maybe this has been fixed with the creation of Galmair? Goldburg was a dwarven Guild based on language and timezones, to enhance the dwarven experience in the Game for all PO's who wanted to play a dwarf. German Dwarf = Silverbrand, English Dwarf = Goldburg. It worked very well for a while with the support of Lennier and GM's. However, as with all guilds, it takes players to keep it going.

My question about this guild idea is this - Isn't Galmair a city based on dwarven culture already? The Don is a dwarf. Why do we need a guild of dwarves here? Cadomyr is Human and Runewick is Elven in nature. If anything, we need an Orc Guild, Lizard Guild or a Halfling Guild. Those three races have no representative city. Why not advocate for those?

[Djironnyma]

Galmair: Dwarfs/Orcs
Cadomyr: Lizards/Humans
Runewick: Halflings/Elves

That was the original VBU plan as you may still see in some books/NPCs/content

[Fooser]

Galmair: Dwarfs/Orcs
Cadomyr: Lizards/Humans
Runewick: Halflings/Elves

That was the original VBU plan as you may still see in some books/NPCs/content

But not the amount of fish

[Juniper Onyx]

haha!! Trust Fooser for a witty answer! Thanks Fooser - glad to see you're still around!

@ Dji - Seriously, even if the "Plan" for VBU was for those minor races to be included, they really aren't represented in the towns as leaders.

Orcs - No-one goes below into the Orc caves and they really aren't part of the government or culture of Galmair - which is very dwarf based. Orcs come and go, but except for Krunk (GM character BTW) Orcs have never really had any influence there.

Halflings - Yeah, Runewick has a nice little halfling village of Yewdale, but who goes there without a depot to work if it isn't part of a quest? Are there any tools? Is there a Halfling Archmage? Will Yewdale ever be controlled by player Halflings? No-one....No...No....and...uh...When Hellbriar freezes over.

Lizards - In Cadomyr? In the Desert??? Where's the RP reason for this??? I can't even find the fishing spot there, much less see how Lizards are supposed to be represented there!!

IMO - Galmair has more to do with Lizards (Most fishing spots) and Cadomyr has more to do with Orcs. Maybe switch these? IMO, having Yewdale that isn't a 'functional' village is just a waste.

My comment about a guild for these races was because they really aren't part of the culture of the three towns. Saying it is doesn't make it so. Those PO's that play these races will always be considered a 'minority'. Would you like to clarify how you see these races are actually part of the three towns and not just 'figures' for decoration?

[Karrock]

In my opinion towns are not base on any race even if leaders are dwarfs, humans, elfes. Leaders must have any races.

[GolfLima]

The Don is a dwarf. .... Cadomyr is Human and Runewick is Elven in nature.

the problem is, that some players dont like to be pushed in a city
i did not understand why an elf has to life at Runewick (( and a smithing elf has no chance to work there ))

Galmair: Dwarfs/Orcs
Cadomyr: Lizards/Humans
Runewick: Halflings/Elves

That was the original VBU plan as you may still see in some books/NPCs/content

should i understand this plan / idea?
dwarfs and orcs in the same town ....this could´nt be

[Djironnyma]

You over-intellectualise what I wrote. I just said that it was the original plan. I said nowhere that it is that way. I’m aware that the towns have very low race specific content.

Anyway it is a concept decision that there will be no new settlements in the near future, mostly because we believe that we have neither enough players nor enough content (NPCs, Generic Quest, etc.) for new settlements. This decision was already well discussed. But as you may know sandboxing inside the areas of the towns is part of the development plan. So founding a race specific guild which builds a race specific place inside a town may be possible, even before the sandboxing will be live. Indeed you have to convince the town’s government to do so, what should be no serious problem if you have a known guild with enough active members.

[Athlon]

Und da war sie wieder die Aussage die alles entschuldig und mit der jeder Vorschlag niedergeschmettert wird !!!!!

[Mephistopheles]

Wow it seems there's even more frustrated players.

hmm... a pattern? Maybe?

[GolfLima]

Galmair: Dwarfs/Orcs
Cadomyr: Lizards/Humans
Runewick: Halflings/Elves
That was the original VBU plan as you may still see in some books/NPCs/content

as i know most of the bearers are humans but they are living at Runewick now i´m totally confused

if you have a known guild with enough active members.

what are the regulations for "well known guild with enough active members" with a player base of 80 players

[Teflon]

Galmair: Dwarfs/Orcs
Cadomyr: Lizards/Humans
Runewick: Halflings/Elves
That was the original VBU plan as you may still see in some books/NPCs/content

as i know most of the bearers are humans but they are living at Runewick now i´m totally confused

This was the original concert, which was planed years before the release of the VBU. It is outdates and doesn't apply. The intension was just to give you some background.

Buildings can be rent by anyone (guild/individuells) but there will be no tools be added currently. We also don't support any seperatism. Their is only little value for the ressources it takes. Time and effort could be used in a better way where more players gain something from.

[Djironnyma]

You over-intellectualise what I wrote. I just said that it was the original plan. I said nowhere that it is that way. I’m aware that the towns have very low race specific content.

Furthermore is every player and every guild free to choose were they settle.

~~~

Nochmals auf Deutsch. Meine Aussage zu dem Rassenbezug auf die Städte spiegelt lediglich das ursprüngliche Prä-VBU Konzept wieder, dass man heute noch an einigen NSC und anderem Content erkennen kann. Es ist uns aber durchaus bewusst, dass dieses Konzept nicht hinreichend umgesetzt wurde. Darüber hinaus war und ist es niemals angedacht gewesen, Spieler oder Gilden aufgrund der vom Spieler ausgewählten Charakterrasse zu nötigen eine spezifische Stadt zu wählen.

[Mephistopheles]

Correction, there is no guilds besides the Bearers, Serpent, and other houses of Cadomyr (I actually like the noble house deal, it's very well done and the effort of the players is palpable) I've seen too many players leave because their guilds went unsupported.

Some of these players are

Aegohl
Erin Thorstar
Tialdin (and a few other dwarves whom I don't really know due to language barrier and time difference)
Me
Kamilar
Fooser
Kugar

And others who I can't think of. Obviously there's a problem with the game if all your long time players are leaving.But nah apparently I'm just over emotional right?

Stop pushing your tiny player base away!

[Karrock]

Most if not all players are opposite to the current policy so why you are keeping it?

Time and effort could be used in a better way where more players gain something from.

What we can gain as guild when everything is forbiden?

I deleleted my list because i dont know do they wanted to start guild.

But players who also left game:

-Arcia
-Ufedhin
-And many players who left game after vbu

[Mephistopheles]

Shame on me, I forgot Arcia

[Teflon]

What we can gain as guild when everything is forbiden?

The only things that are not supported are tools and depots in private property of a character until we reach the respective milestone. You can acquire property by renting rooms. You can shape and form your guild as you wish and set your goals as you prefer. No leader ever intervened here (except with Moshran and other cultists). The Don, for instance, might drop some doubts or questions if Elven Eldars would be formed in Galmair but he wouldn't intervene. If they come to him, he would most likely send them off to the chancellors but still try to support them as much as he can. That altars of the five would be created in Galmair wouldn't happen though. He would argue that such altars are pretty close to Galmair (waste) and that Galmair's gods are different one and he doesn't want to upset them. In case of tools he would argue that no smart business man would ever invest in additional tools (private property) if those puplic tools can be used at any time by them (again a waste). It just doesn't make sense. It is just an "I have to own it myself". Theoretically, we could allow you to acquire these tools but add such high maintenance cost, that your char would lose interest in private tools and be happy that the Don sponsers these tools for free.

In any case, tools and depots are hotspots in the game and we could observe, if too many of these hotspots exists, roleplay is less likely to happen. In particular with a low number of players. I hope I could help to understand our reasons.

[Djironnyma]

Most if not all players are opposite to the current policy so why you are keeping it?

Where do you take this knowledge? It is a normal habit that inside a community mostly these players express their opinion which dislikes the current situation. That means not that this is the opinion of the majority. The statistics (http://www.illarion.org/statistics/us_h ... layers.php) show us that there is no relevant difference in the time pre and post VBU – In opposite the VBU had atleast slowed down if not stopped the down trend of player-numbers. We had the biggest loss of players in a time where everyone had the possibility to build nearly everything everywhere, so please stop telling us taking away this option would have a significant negative effect to the player numbers. There is no proof for this opinion.

Furthermore founding a guild is not just about building a new empty town in the wild. Before everything else a guild is a group of chars with similar goals. If these group is big and active enough it will be no problem for them to influence their towns politic and to form the town or parts of it how they like it. If the group is not big and active enough for doing so, they are far to less chars to found a new settlement.

[Karrock]

Most if not all players are opposite to the current policy so why you are keeping it?

Where do you take this knowledge? It is a normal habit that inside a community mostly these players express their opinion which dislikes the current situation. That means not that this is the opinion of the majority. The statistics (http://www.illarion.org/statistics/us_h ... layers.php) show us that there is no relevant difference in the time pre and post VBU – In opposite the VBU had atleast slowed down if not stopped the down trend of player-numbers. We had the biggest loss of players in a time where everyone had the possibility to build nearly everything everywhere, so please stop telling us taking away this option would have a significant negative effect to the player numbers. There is no proof for this opinion.

Furthermore founding a guild is not just about building a new empty town in the wild. Before everything else a guild is a group of chars with similar goals. If these group is big and active enough it will be no problem for them to influence their towns politic and to form the town or parts of it how they like it. If the group is not big and active enough for doing so, they are far to less chars to found a new settlement.

You would speak different if you would have no own town. Consider that you have only luck that your guild has enough players and current Runewick fits to your char's policy. Others have no similar possibilities. Besides after house system all not used buildings can be vanish so I see no problem.

[Fooser]

Most if not all players are opposite to the current policy so why you are keeping it?

Where do you take this knowledge? It is a normal habit that inside a community mostly these players express their opinion which dislikes the current situation. That means not that this is the opinion of the majority. The statistics (http://www.illarion.org/statistics/us_h ... layers.php) show us that there is no relevant difference in the time pre and post VBU – In opposite the VBU had atleast slowed down if not stopped the down trend of player-numbers. We had the biggest loss of players in a time where everyone had the possibility to build nearly everything everywhere, so please stop telling us taking away this option would have a significant negative effect to the player numbers. There is no proof for this opinion.

That's not true. While the vbu came out a few years ago they stopped supporting the old client well before that. I was told in 2011 that all map changes were halted and we couldn't even get access to the tax npc. Then it leaked that Gobaith was getting wiped which didn't inspire anyone to put effort in.

[Djironnyma]

You would speak different if you would have no own town. Consider that you have only luck that your guild has enough players and current Runewick fits to your char's policy. Others have no similar possibilities. Besides after house system all not used buildings can be vanish so I see no problem.

I have no "own" town. The chars of our guild have a big influence on Runewick as long as they are activ played. If some more active/smarter/bigger group shows up they could easy take over RUnewick - so no RW is not "my own town".
Its not luck but years of work that our guild isnt dead and have more as 3 chars (i wouldnt speak of big we have ~ 7-8 active chars that isnt big). Furthermore Runewick fits to our chars policy becouse we shaped it. We played the political game after the rules Morgain set up. We won this game and made new, own rules. You can do the same in every town. Followe the rules, grow power, change the rules. All what you need is a group of chars bigger/smarter/stronger/more active as the other groups/chars in this town.

[Djironnyma]

That's not true. While the vbu came out a few years ago they stopped supporting the old client well before that. I was told in 2011 that all map changes were halted and we couldn't even get access to the tax npc. Then it leaked that Gobaith was getting wiped which didn't inspire anyone to put effort in.

Even if it was first planned to stop all map changes these policy was relaxed later. I can confirm that there were different player requested map changes after 2011. Furthermore the most settlements never had and tax NPC.
Also once again if you see the only use of a guild/group in building IG something I doubt that this group will retain long after that project is completed – what will stay is the unused building. That was proofed pre VBU endless times.

[Fooser]

Even if it was relaxed later people already had left. Based on what devs/GMs said to me in 2011 it sounded like they pulled most resources from the old client/live server to the new client the previous year. That'd be 2010 which is when numbers started to decline. Karrock's statement is supported by the evidence although it's more than just building.