Ufedhin wrote:I tend to agree with this, we had more towns on Gobaith
Sure we had more settlements, some of which have been converted into monster infested ruins even pre VBU, which barely anyone bitched about, but how many were actually continuosly populated? Only Bane was. Silverbrand, Varshikar, Orc cave, Vanima, Nordmark, Farmer's Union and all the rest have seen some activity from time to time, but they were never neccessary for the game to function like our 3 towns are now and could be populated when it promised some fun to do so. With half the player base spending their time in Bane and at least twice as many active players, there was always someone there and always someone someplace else. I know it would be a major change to reduce the towns to one. We would need to redesign a big part of the map and implement a new magic gem system as the current one is so closely tied to the three towns, but it could be done.
Of course the players should be the driving force behind most of the interesting things happening in game, but that is exactly what this trade reliant magic gem system, the stagnant politics and the static map are highly detrimental to. The magic gem system alone is enough to make embargos, wars between towns and even individual vendettas across town borders almost impossible, because the gems are worth shit unless it is a full set of them. Ironically, it is the fighters who would fight a war or otherwise engage in violence, who are most affected in a negative way by conflict due to the need to trade gems additionally to the usual risk of injury and death. And may I ask, what is the benefit of constantly being forced to trade gems across town borders? All it does is bringing some people together for a quick deal. Is this an essential part of an interesting story? Has any fun roleplay at all resulted directly from gem trade ever since the VBU? We traded gems as long as they have existed, but we were never forced to by the game mechanics and it was a lot more fun, at least for me.
Now, even if we want to keep our current map with the three towns, much could be improved about them. It isn't simply the number of them that is bad for the game, but the entire culture and the fact that they are ruled by
untouchable GM characters.
Culture first: Galmair is supposed to be the realm of wealth? Then it should have a huge advantage over the other towns in the crafting department, with more and easier access to resources and tools than the other towns. Cadomyr is supposed to have superior military? Perhaps it should be the only town with an arena and only Cadomyrians should enjoy arena fighting rewards (which should be substantial enough to make C. not the only possible, but clearly the best town for a fighter char). It would be even better if the towns reflected the different cultures we have in the background lore. Neither Norodaj, nor Serinjah, nor Lizards or Orcs really fit in well with any of our towns. If we want a cultural melting pot, it can as well be one of them instead of 3. If we want 3 towns, why not make one of them more barbaric, tribal, uncivilized, so it can house that sort of cultures? There is no place for them on the entire map currently.
GM leadership: This was a mistake that could have been simply avoided. The exact same approach has been tried before and failed like it fails now. Some might remember the Salkamaerian prince taking over Troll's Bane, the months of inactivity in the town itself that followed and the ooc drama about the NPC guards. The prince also had player chars to take care of the day to day issues and it was the player chars who made things interesting during that time, simply because they could be interacted with. The GM went inactive after a couple months never to be seen again and the experiment was finally given up, because it couldn't have been more obvious that while we need GMs to spice things up occasionally, we do not need GM chars anyone barely ever interacts with. That entire period in Illarion history is actually one I remember fondly, but only because many players insisted on staying true to their roles, fighting back and later rebelling if only a little. They created lasting conflict between those who bent to the new ruler and those who chose exile. The difference between now and then is that exile means being an outlaw today, which simply sucks because the administration does everything to discourage it. Back then we could very much enjoy playing out either choice.
Nitram wrote:The GM leader characters were never intended as actual constantly played characters. For that reason they are "normally" a NPC. The original intention was to use them for major events and GM driven quests. Other then that they were supposed to be basically the GM connection for the player leaders to get GM support for the town as needed. Like the master builder we had before the VBU.
As its not the state is bad for everyone. The players because... well you said it. And for the GMs because they are busy answering some PMs send to the accounts of the leader characters that address the daily business. I think the state that was actually intended by the staff before (but not properly put in place) is a lot closer to what you want.
Now we just need to find a way to make this happen.
The easiest way to fix this "bug" is to simply get rid of the NPC leader chars, by allowing for them to be overthrown, killed in some quest or some other way. If you really can't generally trust regular players to play a town leader in a responsible way, this game is already doomed to die or become a runescape clone. The problem is not that the NPC leaders are constantly played, but that they are very sporadically played and the average citizen rarely has a chance to interact with them. They are not needed at all to contact a GM. We do this via forum PM or IRC. There is a reason the current state is not working as intended and that is because a leader is expected to lead. It is only natural that many issues are taken to them directly, as they have the last word in everything. Regular chars in their positions could just as well be used for major events and help GMs out with GM driven quests. That is all only a matter of communication. The problem is that the most important person in town is an NPC 95% of the time and played by 2 or 3 different people otherwise. In WoW, this might be okay, but I got hooked on Illa because it was different from any other so called RPG out there, player driven, immersive and had very strict IC/OOC separation rules.
I don't like NPCs, their lame quests that you do only for the reward, OOC features like the marker stones and highscore lists and all that hard coded town rank business. Before the VBU, it was said repeatedly that NPC quests are only going to be added so newbies have some stuff to do for their first couple days while they learn the game. Now every dungeon is supposed to have a minimum of 4 quests and you have to do the town quests over and over with every new char if you want to get something in return for your tax money. There are more NPCs in game than we have players already! I can tolerate much of this, the town leaders however should really be characters you can interact with outside of town assemblies, characters with a well developed personality and as mortal as any other.
After making several arguments against GM leadership, I'd also like to ask again what positive effects anyone could attribute to GM led towns?
Jen wrote:While I understand why the GMs want NPC controlled cities...
I really don't. I'd like to hear these reasons.
Jen wrote:I can't see us going back to Trolls Bane times and I don't think we should either...
Why not? It was so much fun.
Jen wrote:We all know that Trolls Bane was incredibly chaotic and changed rulership every other day, but no one can argue that it was immense fun.
Exactly, so why change something that has been working so incredibly well for a decade? I can't wrap my head around it.
Estralis Seborian wrote:While we also realised that some sandboxing features got removed without proper replacement, you should name the features you miss.
All that Uffe mentioned, plus naming characters yourself without the need for an #i.
The most important issue here in my opinion however is the rigid state of the in game politics and the static map.
Weather and seasons.
Killing and planting trees.
Setting things on fire.
At least some remote chance that a well established guild can get an own building in neutral territory.
Craftable, non-rotting furniture and decorations you can place in your flat or elsewhere.