Opinion on certain roleplay

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Post by Qeewee » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:27 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

I have seen forced rape happen IG , and the player of the character raped was so upset about how to RP her character after this, that she stopped playing illarion for a while, so nothing good comes out of rape IG IMO.

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Post by Jupiter » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Qeewee wrote:I have seen forced rape happen IG , and the player of the character raped was so upset about how to RP her character after this, that she stopped playing illarion for a while, so nothing good comes out of rape IG IMO.
No reason for her to quit.
She could just have said: ((no that won't happen))

In this case, it was her own fault.

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Post by Nalzaxx » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Um...wow.

Okay, lets get this straight guys. Yes, rape and torture and all the most kinky, evil, grusome etc etc acts should be allowed and there is no logical reason why they shouldn't be. I understand that people who would be offended by this should be able to distinguish fiction from reality, and understand that it is a game, and that they are not forced into any roleplay they don't want to be a part of. And I even understand that the reasoning used to defend banning these actions ingame can be extended to any area of roleplay and is therefore a poor and unfounded justification.

HOWEVER

We have to understand that we play illarion with other people, and not all of them think this way, not all of them understand this philosophical leaning, and not all of them agree. So yes. You should be able to do these things, but by doing so you are likely to upset other players. It doesn't matter whos fault it is or if they need to grow up or whatever, people will get upset. Are you really so insensitive that you don't care about this at all? There comes a point where you realise that despite all your reasoning and well founded opinions you are still being a complete dick.

And if you're not sensible/clever/mature enough to realise when you're being a complete dick and stop it. Then you need rules to tell you so.

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Post by Ereaes » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:45 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

.....maybe i shouldn't have cut off his finger then.... :) . But i agree with ballsy Nalzy(Nalzaxx). And i cannot believe that this thread is still going on, especially after...2 GMs posted on it?

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Post by Djironnyma » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Since my English is not well enough to write down my thoughts and opinion to this matter in English i will try it in German. As a summary i can just repeat me: I believe that there are no borders in anyone’s RP concerning any matter as long as a) there is no rule broken and b) (even IMHO more important) you play together with the others POs for anyone’s fun, play with respect for his feelings, ethic and so on.

------------

Nun etwas genauer in Deutsch- Vorweg alles folgende ist im wesentlichen meine persönliche Sicht und keine offizielle Stellungname in meiner Funktion als CM :D. Auch möchte ich mich dafür entschuldigen, dass ich im folgenden immer nur von den männlichen Formen von Spieler/Spielerinnen usw. rede, ich bin einfach zu faul alles doppelt zu schreiben.

Ich denke zuerst einmal sollten wir Begrifflichkeiten klären. Es ist mein Eindruck, das hier viel aneinander vorbeigeredet wird. Die eine Seite spricht davon, dass es unakzeptabel ist einen Vergewaltiger zu spielen. Die andere davon, dass das RP so wenig wie möglich beschränkt sein sollte und das auch Vergewaltigungen nicht ausschließen sollte. Ich kann beide Standpunkte gut nachvollziehen, sehe aber Erst einmal das Problem das sie zwei unterschiedliche Aussagen behandeln.

Ich glaube der Großteil, wenn nicht sogar alle Spieler sind sich darin einig, dass ein Spieler, der sich einen Char erstellt mit dem Ziel oder maßgeblichen Inhalt des Charakterkonzeptes, andere Chars zu vergewaltigen, definitiv in Illarion fehl am Platz ist. Abgesehen von einer äußerst fraglichen Motivation und Ethik solch eines Spielers kann solch ein Charkonzept kaum gegenseitigen Spaß / RP fördern und dass sollte primär sein für jeden in Illarion erstellten Charakter.

Ebenfalls glaube ich, sind wir uns einig das Rollenspiel unter anderem von ethischen / moralischen Konflikten lebt - von Gut und Böse. Deswegen wird es niemals – auch nicht „in kleinen Schritten“ ein Verbot jeglicher „Böser Taten“ geben, ich bezweifle stark das es im Staff auch nur ein Mitglied gibt, dass auf das Ziel hinarbeitet Illarion frei von jeglichem moralisch verwerflichen RP oder jeglichen Konflikten zu „Befreien“. Im Gegenteil – die Spielwelt von Illarion ist voll von Gewalt. Wir haben (zumeist gerade als Teil von GM unterstützen oder geleiteten Quests) Diebstahl, Raub, Mord (und ich meine „richtigen“ Mord nicht die Umwandlung zum Geist), Verleugnungen, Bedrohungen, Erpressungen, Opferungen von Chars, Verfluchen, Entführungen, Sklaverei, Folter und Verstümmlungen von Chars. All das wird es auch weiterhin geben.

Wir sollten also die von beiden Seiten argumentativ genannten Extreme einmal ausklammern. Dann bleibt die Streitfrage ob es in Ordnung ist wenn Sich Spieler A und B darauf einigen, dass (im Sinne der Spielregeln und hoffentlich im Sinne der eigenen Ethik in nicht ausgespielten Szene) Charakter von A den Charakter von B Vergewaltigt hat. Diese Frage sollte differenziert werden in drei Teilfragen:

1.)Warum sollte man sowas überhaupt brauchen? Wenn wir in dieser Frage keinen Konsens finden brauchen wir uns den anderen gar nicht erst stellen.
Ich kann der Argumentation folgen, dass Illarion mit den oben genannten anderen Aspekten von Gewalt eine durchaus vielfältige und für jeden „bösen“ Char ausreichende Auswahl bietet. Es bereichert Illarion nicht wirklich ob nun ein Char einen anderen Vergewaltigen kann oder nicht.
Andererseits möchte ich einbringen das RP eher selten gezielt und geplant verläuft. Wie in der Realität geschehen die meisten Gewaltverbrechen im Affekt. Hier liegt der Knackpunkt, ein Spieler der einen morallosen/moralschwachen Char spielt kann durchaus im RP in Situationen kommen in dem sein Char einen anderen vergewaltigen würde. Ist es generell verboten fühlt er sich in diesem Moment natürlich in der Freiheit seiner Rolle beschränkt und bevormundet.
Das mag zwar praktisch gesehen ein seltener Fall sein, aber „spielerische Freiheit“ misst sich weniger an konkreten Praxisfällen als mehr an einem Gefühl abhängig von der Anzahl und Konkretheit der bestehenden Regeln (und deren Umsetzung). Für viele Spieler ist eine möglichst große Spielerische Freiheit ein wichtiger Faktor für den Spaß am Spiel.

2.) Was sagen die Spielregeln zu diesem Thema?
Spielregeln wrote: Gewalt und nicht jugendfreie Darstellungen
Gewaltverherrlichende, brutale, perverse oder sexuelle Schilderungen sind im Spiel strengstens verboten. Außerdem dürfen durch alle Schilderungen im Spiel die Wertvorstellungen und moralischen Grundsätze aller beteiligten Spieler und zufälliger Zuhörer nicht verletzt werden.
Wir sprechen in den Spielregeln von Schilderungen die im Spiel geschehen. Das macht zweifelsohne klar, dass das ausspielen jeglicher Gewalt, jeglichen Sex oder eben beidem zusammen verboten ist. Das es jedoch verboten wäre, dass sich zwei Spieler darauf einigen, das ihre Chars gerade Sex hatten, wäre mir neu – wenn nicht hat Illarion eine erstaunliche Anzahl jungfräulicher Empfängnisse erlebt.
Angesichts des zweiten Satzes der Regel müssen wir uns aber auch bewusst sein, das Schilderungen im Spiel auch die Thematisierung des Gewaltaktes, der Vergewaltigung bedeutet. Es ist also nicht nur grundsätzlich verboten eine Vergewaltigung aus zu spielen, sondern auch davon (als Char) lauthals in der Taverne zu berichten.
Ein Expliziertes Verbot für die Thematik von Vergewaltigungen gibt es nicht – dass bedeutet aber nicht im Umkehrschluss, dass es erlaubt wäre. Wie alle guten Regeln lassen Illarions Spielregeln Interpretationen zu, da oftmals die Übergänge von Vertretbaren und Unvertretbaren fließend und von den vielseitigen Umständen abhängig sind. Solche schwere regeltechnische Entscheidungen zu treffen ist zum Glück nicht meine/CM Aufgabe sondern die der GMs *g*. Es sollte aber jedem Spieler bewusst sein, der irgendeine Art von Gewalt ausspielt oder sich mit einem anderem Spieler darauf einigt dass etwas Gewalttätiges geschehen ist, dass er sich in regeltechnischem Grenzbereich befindet und es im Zweifelsfall (vorher!) mit einem GM absprechen muss. Das gilt nicht nur aber ganz besonders für sensible Themen wie Vergewaltigungen.

3.)Verbietet die Gefahr einen traumatisierten Spieler mit solchem RP zu verletzen nicht diese Thematik?
Natürlich ist es nicht Illarions Pflicht jeglichen durch Traumatische Erfahrungen geschädigte Person vor einer Wieder-Erlebung oder deutlichen Erinnerung an dieses Trauma zu beschützen, diese Aufgabe kann Illarion (im Sinne des Vereins / der juristischen Person) auch gar nicht wahrnehmen.
Auch ist es durchaus richtig, dass in anderen Medien Gewalt und gerade Vergewaltigungsakte wesentlich Explizierter dargestellt werden.

Beide Argumente ändern aber nichts an dem Mindestmaß an Ethik und Moral dass Illarion, der Verein und der Staff von den Spielern voraussetzen kann und voraussetzt. Dieses Mindestmaß an Ethik und Moral bedeutet, dass ich nichts tun oder Spielen werde das einen Mitspieler absehbar im erheblichen Maße emotionell verletzen kann.
Damien hat aufgezeigt, dass es durchaus realistisch ist, dass der Mitspieler Traumatische Erlebnisse in Hinblick auf Vergewaltigung hatte. Da sich die meisten Spieler sehr in ihre Rolle reinversetzen, sich hineinversetzen und Vorstellen was sie erleben, reicht es oftmals schon aus wenn man sich darauf einigt das es geschehen ist, ohne dass man es explizit ausspielt.
Jeder Spieler mit einem Mindestmaß an Moral und Anstand sollte seinem Mitspieler solch eine mögliche Wiederbelebung seines Traumas nicht zumuten. Ein Spieler der dieses Maß an Ethik nicht mit sich bringt, der dieses Risiko für seinen eigenen Spielspaß einfach hinnimmt und auf die Eigenverantwortung des Opfers schiebt hat auch meiner Meinung nach in Illarion nichts verloren.

Es kann natürlich sein das sich zwei Spieler im Laufe der Zeit gut genug kennen gelernt haben, dass sie aneinander soweit vertrauen, dass wenn Spieler A Spieler B fragt ob sein Char den anderen Char IG Vergewaltigt haben kann, dass Spieler B dann auch „nein“ sagen kann (denn das ist für ein mögliches Opfer naheliegend das schwerste an der Problematik) und das zum Anderen Spieler A das auch vertraulich genug respektiert.

Ein solches Vertrauensverhältnis zwischen zwei Spielern kommt vor, ist aber eher selten, weswegen viele – auch vom Staff – die Vergewaltigungsthematik von Illarion generell verbannen wollen. Ich persönlich sehe das differenzierter. Ich denke dass was zählt ist nicht was wir verbieten oder erlauben, ich bezweifle das wir durch ein pauschales Verbot solchen RPs eine signifikante Verbesserung herbeiführen. Viel wichtiger ist es, das alle Spieler in gegenseitigem Respekt zueinander Spielen. Das sich jeder bewusst macht, dass gerade Gewalt und Vergewaltigung möglicher Weise den Mitspieler emotionell verletzen. Ich denke wenn sich dessen jeder bewusst ist und damit entsprechend sensibel umgeht ist uns mehr geholfen als mit mehr Regeln und Strafen.

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Post by Qeewee » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:03 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Ereaes wrote:.....maybe i shouldn't have cut off his finger then.... :) . But i agree with ballsy Nalzy(Nalzaxx). And i cannot believe that this thread is still going on, especially after...2 GMs posted on it?
2 CMs too! And 2 former GMs! And still it continues! :P

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Post by Kearun » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:06 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Ereaes wrote:.....maybe i shouldn't have cut off his finger then.... :) . But i agree with ballsy Nalzy(Nalzaxx). And i cannot believe that this thread is still going on, especially after...2 GMs posted on it?
I enjoyed the rp. Gives Kearun some character. :lol:

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Post by Joxia Doral » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:42 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

I cannot add anything that has not all ready been said. So, saying that does anyone other than me think its time to lock this thread?

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Jupiter wrote:
Qeewee wrote:I have seen forced rape happen IG...
In this case, it was her own fault.
Most epic FAIL ever.

Seriously: While I, personally, am in favour of as many freedoms as possible in a game like Illarion, there are some limits, some borders one must not cross. The "anti-rape-rule" was rephrased in a more general way, in the past we had a rule that was as simple as: "If you play a rape or hack the server, you get banned for good immediatly!". While such a rule is somewhat awkward for the game - it implies that some players actually do/did this - the necessity for such a rule is still there. Dji's post, which stressed the difficult balance between rules/restrictions and trust/respect, made it clear implicitly: Those who have some common sense and act in a sensible way won't need any rules at all. For all others, we have a set of rather reasonable rules. And those rules will be enforced; some in a rather tolerant way, others very strictly. As long as no one is negatively affected, you can do whatever you want. But your freedom ends where it affects some one else's freedom, rights and dignity.

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Post by Copper Dragon » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:25 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Well said Estarlis! The last line "Your freedom ends where it affects some one else's freedom, rights and dignity." really states it all. Even willingly submiting to an action efects BOTH parties, some times in ways we never expect or can predict. Yes it is a game but there is a person at the keyboard and even actions in a game can effect them. Thats my 2 copper and I'm stopping here with the wish that this thread is locked soon.

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Post by Jupiter » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:05 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Estralis, you quoted me there rather out of context, don't you think?

If someone does something IG or tries something to do what you don't like/doN't want to have AND you have every right by the rules to tell him to stop, and you prefer to quit instead of telling him or a GM, it was you own decission.
Maybe the player was upset about it. Maybe angry and shocked. But it was still her decission to choose to quit.

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Post by Silo » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:26 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Disclaimer: I am not a sick bastard that wishes to ruin someone's life by making them remember the past. This topic contains discussion of rape. Please keep this in mind before you continue reading.

All I see is a bunch of people agreeing with each other. Forcing someone into a situation = bad. Yes. Yes, it is. Cookies for all.

However, I was arguing for (well, more wondering if) [insert evil here] to be (is) allowed in a mutually agreed circumstance. I'm not planning to roam Gobaith raping on the newbies, nor do I intend my character to rape at all. What I'm wondering is if it is agreed on by both parties ahead of time, where do we draw the line? Is rape allowed in this circumstance, assuming it is not RPed graphically? Is incredibly gruesome torture allowed in such a circumstance? Slavery (beatings included)?

What of a character's background? Are we to censor any rape/torture/enslavement/etc that happened in a pre-planned past?

We can't exactly limit one without limiting the other. And, yes, I do believe that limiting anything from a character's background does take away from the game. I am quite sorry that this includes rape, but it's difficult to be creative with limitations.

EDIT: I would like to add domestic violence to said evils. Something that happens more often than rape and would have a more common appearance in character backgrounds.

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Post by Anon of D'Athen » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:44 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Just to throw in my long absent two cents, if said evil is priorly agreed upon by both parties-preferably by those who are well known to each other- then it's all go.
As a disclaimer, I, as well as hopefully most other people here, find rape appalling. However, as Silo mentioned, it can add to a background or a character's story.
But just bloody well check with the individual, and be mature about it. Bad cess to all who don't.

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Post by Ereaes » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:40 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

I am inclined to agree with Jox on this. Seriously, this thread is still open? It has been beaten with an ugly stick since the beginning. I understand the view points, even that of a concerned parent(it was his concern that started this thread). Do you remember the beginning topic, it was about prostitution, we got from there to rape, torture, slavery, and what should and should not be RPed. I remember reading something about what should and should not be RPed...of course, its all in the rules. There is even leeway in the rules to allow back story lines as much of it is nonspecific. Any RPer worth his salt can find a way to incorporate traumatizing events in the char's life, into the way the char is played. Last i recall mentioning that your char was raped when telling someone your char's back story (so long as its tastefully done) was not punished.

One of my chars (a long time ago) broke a halfling's fingers to get him to give up information. It was tastefully done and with the consent of the other player. (he even threw his head forward on a red hot dagger.....ahhh the good old days). Recently one of my chars severed another char's finger, again, tastefully done and at any time if you are in a role playing situation that you feel uncomfortable or offended, you can let the other player know ((OOC like)). I hardly see why this is an issue, this game has never been a PG rating, but its not NC17 rating either, its a middle ground where you can role play and have fun. If you step out of line, a GM will let you know, if you feel like a certain roleplay was a little much, let the other PO know. Seriously how is this difficult?

(Edit)
Forgot, everyone else had a cute little disclaimer. so.
Disclaimer: This post may contain common sense, if you are offended by it, please LOOK AWAY, TO THE HILLS, RUNNNNNNNN :twisted:

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Post by Silo » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:05 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

This thread is still going, yes - and for good reason, in my humble opinion. Likewise, the hijacking was necessary.

What I had thought to be a nonissue apparently isn't, so I'm looking for definitive answers. When a GM says that anything concerning rape should not be allowed, then I think clarification is entirely necessary. Better to understand the rules from the start than to "scar" someone and force the GMs into a corner.

My questions still stand, hopefully to be answered by someone with a fancy colored name.

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Post by Ereaes » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:28 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

How dare you sir! Insinuate my name is not of fancy coloring! .....oh wait...bugger. :wink:
I concede the point, questions have been asked, with some reply from the powers that be, but not in definite set in stone answers.
But that brings a thought to mind that maybe there cannot be set in stone answers for such questions, there is a fine line that must be walked here. On the one hand you are at risk of offending someone in a profound way(past experiences in RL, that may be remembered though the RP) as well as turning some off to the game. On the other hand with too much restriction, you inhibit the RP, which is never fun. The GMs however are not tyrants and generally give fair warnings to those that have broken the rules(even when "back into a corner"). Trust me, i have gotten a couple of said warnings.

My point was, or is, rather, that all this debate on what is proper will only serve to impede the RP. Allow me to explain: Pushing the powers that be for more defined rules, and regs may very well prompt a revised version of those already standing. In those that are now in place, i myself have found a number of points where there is plenty of wiggle room to be had. Enough that you can Rp with limited back lash for doing something that may offend someone (unless the act is truly obscene or blatantly in the face of rules). I do not understand why one would wish to challenge that.

Again, my simple thing is this: RP how you feel you should, have fun with it, but keep it tasteful. If you get a warning, learn from it and continue having fun(now a bit wiser). So long as the other players involved don't have a problem with what your RPing, there will not be a complaint to a GM, and that normally means, no measures taken against you, hell, you may even be applauded for the interesting RP on the "Whose rp did you like today" board.

Now i myself feel foolish for this is the 4th time(i believe) i have posted on this thread. NO MORE I SAY! I shall flee before more debating ensues! *Flees*

(Edit edit: Probably should have mentioned i was speaking of grotesque violence and the like. The rape i mentioned was in the back story on the profile, or rped that it happened BEFORE the char came to illa(I am not for rape IG, so i ask one does not infer i am). The dual consent i mentioned before hand was meant for those who wish to rp a scene 'within the rules' that may adversely effect one of the rpers. IE: torture slavery and the other subjects this tangent of a thread touched on. However, i do appreciate the love Damien :wink: :twisted: )
Last edited by Ereaes on Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Damien » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:53 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

There is no "all go", even if both players agree beforehand. I think the rules alone make this clear: The actions of a rape are not to be rped ingame. When both agree, it just means that the chars can state that char a is a rape victim of char b, and can rp the consequences.

Legal explanation:
Concerning law stuff, there is not much difference between writing / showing a sexual - oriented text or a graphic to a minor, both counts as bringing minors in contact with non-minor-content, and both is punishable by law. That's The reason why cybering and excessive violence are forbidden and that also accounts for all kind of rape-oriented rp.
If one allowed such actions ingame, the result would be that illarion would have to be made for grownups only (18 in europe, possibly 21 in other countries) and had to work with a fail-safe age verification system. Age verification systems that don't cost money would end up with something like having players sending in a photocopy of their passports while waving into a webcam chat thing for a staff person to compare pictures and date.
The other alternative would be living with the risc that some day the game gets closed because the association cannot afford lawyer costs in case someone sues. While big companies like those of Second Life can afford and win such lawsuits, a small non-profit organisation like illarion can't.

Personal explanation:
It's legally risky, it could harm people, it's impolite to females, it's bad taste, it's uncreative, and it lacks STYLE.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:28 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

I have a small list for all of you who think that "evil" needs actions like raping:
  • Darth Vader
  • Sauron
  • Voldemort
  • Wicked Witch of the West
  • The Terminator
  • Lex Luthor
  • Magneto
  • The Joker
  • Rumpelstiltskin
Your favourite evil badass archvillains - and guess what, they never raped anyone.

Other than that - I guess all is said. Overplayed violence and other (sorry) sick things must not be part of your personal roleplaying. And if your character's village was burned down by orcs and your character got raped in his childhood then you didn't make up a genuine character background but a piece of stultifying uber drama.

http://thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=248

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Post by Mr. Cromwell » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:04 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Estralis Seborian wrote:Just a minor sidenote: "Death" in the world Illarion is something totally different than IRL. You know, we have those not-so-yellow-any-more crosses? And that ghost-state, known as "getting clouded"? And that afterlife thingy, called Cherga's realm? So, getting beaten up in the world of Illarion has a totally different meaning to the characters than it has to a person IRL.
I don't play right now, but I'd like to point out that strictly speaking this is not exactly true, is it? For instance, my character had another character murdered in the good old fashioned way (lure the victim out, get a henchman to kill him & dispose of the body, get a staffer to rumour it). Cherga's realm and whatnot, but the whole point of the excercise was to permanently remove a character who stood in the way of progress and nice things, and to solve a certain ooc issue surrounding that character - and it worked fine too! For what it's worth, I don't think there's any point in pretending that there wouldn't be an IG differentation between "clouding" and "RP-permadeath" of someone from the character point of view.

Death and murder may be rare in Illarion, but they're still there (unless the staff has been rules-lawyering about this too since the last time I paid attention? ;)).

Everything in this particular murder was done in complete agreement with the PO of the character, of course - plus he got permanent cool points from me ever since. Anyway, seeing as this discussion is participated by players whose characters have been (off the top of my head) permakilling, have/intended to mutilate other characters or wouldn't hesitate to exterminate a group of people over philosophical differences - I have to admit I find the general outrage a bit queer. I can see the logic behind banning rape, but I also can see how this can with equal validity be extended to other categories such as assault (and escaping from this OOC-trauma via esc might ironically enough get you banned from the game) which can be equally traumatizing to someone who's been through it in their personal life.

I've always been of the opinion that as long as everyone present agrees on the RP, then the staff would be better off making fun quests to keep people busy, instead of keeping tabs on the players and banning things just in case (especially since the current rules texts leave so much room for liberal interpretation that just about anything might be construed as being a rule-violating offense anyway!). Consideration and all.

@Estralis' list
I suppose all of those characters you list are directly responsible for tens or even millions of deaths, though. Hell, if I remember right - Vader for instance personally killed the jedi kids. Yet somehow this doesn't prevent them from being people's favourite badass archvillains? Just pointing out that slight problem with your logic, mate. ;)

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Post by Silo » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:20 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Well, thanks for the answer, I guess. While I'm not particularly fond of the close-mindedness, I got what I asked for.

Dramatic acts, removed from future role-play interactions.

@Ereaes I wish your answer was the one attached to the colored name. :P

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Post by The Returner » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:20 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Damien wrote:There is no "all go", even if both players agree beforehand. I think the rules alone make this clear: The actions of a rape are not to be rped ingame. When both agree, it just means that the chars can state that char a is a rape victim of char b, and can rp the consequences.

Legal explanation:
Concerning law stuff, there is not much difference between writing / showing a sexual - oriented text or a graphic to a minor, both counts as bringing minors in contact with non-minor-content, and both is punishable by law. That's The reason why cybering and excessive violence are forbidden and that also accounts for all kind of rape-oriented rp.
If one allowed such actions ingame, the result would be that illarion would have to be made for grownups only (18 in europe, possibly 21 in other countries) and had to work with a fail-safe age verification system. Age verification systems that don't cost money would end up with something like having players sending in a photocopy of their passports while waving into a webcam chat thing for a staff person to compare pictures and date.
The other alternative would be living with the risc that some day the game gets closed because the association cannot afford lawyer costs in case someone sues. While big companies like those of Second Life can afford and win such lawsuits, a small non-profit organisation like illarion can't.

Personal explanation:
It's legally risky, it could harm people, it's impolite to females, it's bad taste, it's uncreative, and it lacks STYLE.

I don't see a problem with legal age verification, Damien. After all, the 16 plus disclaimer is already totally ignored. Perhaps the problem is not the danger of exposing minors to the content, but letting minors show up in the first place.

Aren't there schools and friends to be had?!

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Post by Djironnyma » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:18 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

its about law

if we dont forbide anything R rated we need a age verification, and if we would have on illarion would die in less than a year, not only that we have many players which arent adult, we would also get nearly no new pkayers since a verification system make a new account system to complicate.

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Post by Nalzaxx » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:42 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Move the server to international waters.

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Post by Enviyatar » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:45 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Nalzaxx wrote:Move the server to international waters.
or Guantanamo...

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Post by Qeewee » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:10 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Nalzaxx wrote:Move the server to international waters.
Seriously, why'd no one do that yet? :P

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Post by Djironnyma » Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:39 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

because it doesnt matter where the server stynds but where the society is located because the society hosts illarion.

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Post by The Returner » Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Djironnyma wrote:its about law

if we dont forbide anything R rated we need a age verification, and if we would have on illarion would die in less than a year, not only that we have many players which arent adult, we would also get nearly no new pkayers since a verification system make a new account system to complicate.

I don't know how things work in Germany. But absolving law is a simple matter of a very simple disclaimer shown once at account creation.

"Due to the volume of players that participate in our game, and the number of themes covered by roleplaying, the actions of all characters falling into child safe or tame terms can not be garunteed. Online interactions between players, beyond cyberbullying and forced roleplay are not the responsibility of the illarion staff. If expose to adult themes or content is illegal in your country, or you are under age, please leave now as we can not garuntee against such exposure."

[][I'm over the legal age of consent, or understand I will be exposed to adult content]
[BACK]
[CONTINUE]


Simples.

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Post by Djironnyma » Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:58 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

that would be enough for the german law since it isnt a reyl check

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Post by The Returner » Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:10 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Then theres not many options left after that.

By banning certain RP, you alienate the larger (Adult) playerbase. Catering to the adult playerbase would be better for illarion as a whole.

Either way, enforcing RP, then limiting adult themes of it is overall negative on the in game society. Perhaps incorperating illarion was not the best move strategically for game life in the long run. Plus, I don't think such rules are even followed IG. And, if people start consenting to RP storylines (Rape, Sex, having babies) OOC it breaks the other rules of non-ooc involvement...

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Post by Nalzaxx » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:00 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Move the society to international waters.

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