Jail

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Post by Fooser » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:00 pm

You guys have it easy, my char was once in jail for 2 straight months and the jail wasn't even in town

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Post by Drakon Gerwulf » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:00 pm

I have been looking at the post and have no part in anything going on with this topic but to give some suggestions as to keep your character out of jail so they can rp more. This can also keep the crime down as for constant offenders when they are caught a gm can lower their stats accordingly.

Few suggestions would be as followed that were practiced in the middle ages.

Removing of hands for stealing.

Removing of ones tongue for talking against the governor.

Drawn and quarted for any murder.

Hung or beheaded.

Public displays of Whipping.

But the same would go for anyone in charge as well, they may quell a rebellion but they are not gods. A well placed Arrow or blade would kill everyone Mage and warrior a like. so the people in charge have to be willing to accept a fate as well. Killing one man to silence a rebellion so to say as an example. Could start a war that even his strongest men can't win or master guard protect the governor at all times. Because if history taught us something the smallest and weakest of men in general can place poison in the food and kill just as an arrow or blade.

As for this magical cell stuff where no communication is not allowed even in todays systems. This still gets in and out of the jails so as far as I see it that it is not possible to keep someone from communicating with the outside world or others in jail.

I agree with the need to keep criminals in and I feel some are released to keep trouble going who seem to escape or get let out to continue where they left off... there should be a three strike rule after the third stike the player is jailed full term or be crippled permanently do to the crime they committed. A thief will have not such a easy time defending himself or stealing things when his hands are removed. taking away his dex. stat or what ever skill it involves.

All these people who posted here have a vaild point, but if everyone stops takes a breath and puts asides all feelings. You will see that all the Jailed people want is a way to Rp. Not necessarily to be released but to be able to be able to continue their story they have started with that character even if they are jailed.

Like this even if it is a thread only the Jailed people can see or use.

" The lonely prisoner looks up from his cell, taking in a deep breath he moves to the bars of his cell talking to the person beside him." They caught me doing this and this, what did they get you for?

"The person in the cell beside him stirs on the bunk shaking his/her head as they let out a laugh.* I did this.. and hope to get out one day. Maybe it will be soon or maybe I will die in here.

I could be wrong but I think that is all the Jailed are asking for.

But that is my two coppers I am not pointing to any side just trying to be a calm head to maybe help with a solution to keep the game fun for all.

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Post by Punisher » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:13 pm

Jail RP problem solved.

Prison has been modified, from now on all prisoners will be put in one large cell. :) Dropping soap away

Cheers

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Post by Seori » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:17 pm

I have been banned because I had qualms about submitting to the senseless jailing "rp" that PO Punisher sought to impose on me. Why did I have misgivings about the jailing "rp"?

1. The "rp" in jailing "rp" only exists for the jailer
2. Jailing is a one way street of rp
3. The interaction in good rp is squashed by jailing
4. Jailing is playing against fellow players
5. The fun of the community is ruined
6. Jailing harms the game atmosphere

In jailing "rp", the focus is truly all on the jailer. It is about the jailer chasing, the jailer PKing, the jailer tying up, the jailer looting, and the jailer locking away. At the core of all of these actions, it is about the jailer going on a power trip. The one the jailer imposes this one-sided rp on has all of his creativity strangled by the onslaught of this jailing rp, which reduces the jailed person's options to only one - submit and log out. When this destructive jailing rp succeeds, our preciously few community is struck a great blow. With the loss of another creative mind, the interactive chemistry between characters fizzles out, and the gaming world becomes a measurably staler place.

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Post by Kamilar » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:23 pm

Punisher wrote:Jail RP problem solved.

Prison has been modified, from now on all prisoners will be put in one large cell. :) Dropping soap away

Cheers
And we can assume the jailor POs are taking responsibility for offering RP there, yes?

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Post by Grokk » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:35 pm

Kamilar wrote:And we can assume the jailor POs are taking responsibility for offering RP there, yes?
Why would you assume that?

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Post by Rafael » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:55 pm

Welcome to Trolls Bane! Free cavity searchs with your inscription as citizen! (sorre, I had to make that joke :P )

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Post by Orioli » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:15 pm

Rafael wrote:Welcome to Trolls Bane! Free cavity searchs with your inscription as citizen! (sorre, I had to make that joke :P )

Missed your humor!! Well said.. ((laughing away here, same goes to Llama for the soap thing earlier))

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Post by Kamilar » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:32 pm

Grokk wrote:
Kamilar wrote:And we can assume the jailor POs are taking responsibility for offering RP there, yes?
Why would you assume that?
I guess I'm making the assumption that the jailor POs put characters in jail for RP. Am I mistaken?

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Post by Snorri Goldauge » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:50 pm

How about creating a gobiath-mainprison?
With some cells an several npc-prisonguards so there could develope an
isolated rp and one would still have the possibility to play with other inmates.
Of course, according to our online-numbers it might have to be planned.

I also think that this live sentences are not nescessary and frustating if you cant manage to
rp an escape.

maybe thats a compromise.

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Post by Juliana D'cheyne » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:04 pm

I am not sure what one big jail cell will accomplish unless you place quite a few PO's in jail.. or the jailer plans on RPing with the prisoners , which IMO should happen anyway i.e. there are advantages and disadvantage to a char being a jailer as there would be for a char to be a criminal.... after all, you really can't have one without the other. Because some players get ig different times then others however...this may cause problems to RP.

Isn't there windows small enough that a mage is unable to get through (or script as a block for a mage) yet would proved enough so a prisoner.. unless in the basement part can RP with someone outside the jail? This would solve a lot of the RP problems also.

Public flogging, throwing apples at the "criminal" tied in the street to a pillary (I think that is the word for the wooden device), even cutting out the tongue for severe punishment (as happened to one of my chars at Nordmark) are all consequences of actions also providing punishment, RP, and added interest.

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Post by Grokk » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:10 pm

Kamilar wrote:I guess I'm making the assumption that the jailor POs put characters in jail for RP. Am I mistaken?
Yep.

Or, at least, I don't think that is what you are assuming at all. You seem to be assuming that the jailer POs put characters in jail so that they can provide them with constant RP, that RP can only mean 'log IG and interact with another character face to face', and, further, that the actions of a character can create a duty for the PO. All of which seem, to me, completely absurd.

Why are you talking about jailers as POs, but prisoners as characters? POs don't imprison characters. Characters do. Characters put other characters in prison because they have committed a crime, are suspected of such, or are being treated unjustly. Characters are imprisoned for RP reasons. POs are playing their jailer characters like this, because to do otherwise would be poor RP.

In that sense, POs do put characters in jail for RP. But I don't think that seems to be the sense in which you meant it. Because how does PO responsibility come into the picture? What are you suggesting? That if a guard PO is not going to log on and RP with an imprisoned PO, their character shouldn't be arrested in the first place? I don't understand why we start speaking in terms of POs and their RP responsibilities as soon as prison becomes involved, but never anywhere else. If that was repeated across all areas of the game, then fine. But its not.

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Post by PurpleMonkeys » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:05 am

I like the new Jail Cell!
As for my opinion on all of this, I agree with the labor and public humiliation, but maybe the tongue/hand cutting idea should just be used for more serious crimes.. Lose a hand for stealing a hammer? :shock:

I have one suggestion for the jailing system, which I get partly from another game. Throw prisoners in a large dungeon, with NPC guards at lock entrance and such.. Enough room for RP. But then.. you have two very difficult ways of escape. One for the fighter, one for the craftsmen/nonfighter!!
The Bloody Way: would involve getting past a number of very tough creatures to freedom. Also have the escape passage one tile wide, so there could be no getting around the creature(s).
The Peaceful Way: would involve navigating several mazes and other puzzle-like obstacles, which would be changed a few times every month, so you can't go through once and then know how to next time you get jailed. Also short-term punishments like the humiliation would stop a criminal from getting through twice before the changes.

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Post by Kamilar » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:31 am

Grokk wrote:In that sense, POs do put characters in jail for RP. But I don't think that seems to be the sense in which you meant it. Because how does PO responsibility come into the picture? What are you suggesting? That if a guard PO is not going to log on and RP with an imprisoned PO, their character shouldn't be arrested in the first place? I don't understand why we start speaking in terms of POs and their RP responsibilities as soon as prison becomes involved, but never anywhere else. If that was repeated across all areas of the game, then fine. But its not.
Yes, I'm suggesting that if the POs of guards/jailors are not interested in roleplaying their parts face to face in the prison, they probably should rethink that line of RP. What's the point of that RP if the POs involved don't want to play it out in game?

We aren't talking about the RP responsibilities as they apply in the rest of the game because that's not what we're talking about. If you think we need to talk about it, make another thread and we will.

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Post by Lrmy » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:13 am

Kamilar wrote: Yes, I'm suggesting that if the POs of guards/jailors are not interested in roleplaying their parts face to face in the prison, they probably should rethink that line of RP. What's the point of that RP if the POs involved don't want to play it out in game?

We aren't talking about the RP responsibilities as they apply in the rest of the game because that's not what we're talking about. If you think we need to talk about it, make another thread and we will.
The only characters this topic applies to are characters that do something in extreme opposition of some of the most powerful characters in game or characters that PK a lot. I don't think it matters if you can't RP with one character for a few days because you stole. Maybe a character's PO should rethink their RP if they don't want to be locked up. I think the only sensible solution is accepting an execution (which would be most realistic) or putting up with the jail time. Otherwise the RP aspect of the game is shot.

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Post by The great one » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:13 pm

My oh so amazing opinion:

If a someone is jailed, the RP should NOT cease. Such things as organized meal times, visits (maybe for less aggressive criminals), questioning, torturing, exercise (?) and things like this should atleast be considered. At the moment it's just - 'now I put you in a jail cell and you log and and think about what you did' - this is effectively an OOC ban and poor RP. Any who disagrees is wrong and is just being selfish. I am glad to see that it is being considered for inmates to have the ability to RP. Truelly a step in the right direction. It's foolish to tar every criminal with the same brush for the reason that some are n00b pkers who ruin it for the others. I seriously think some of you have too much of an aggressive and pessimistic view on the community here - if you are just going to belittle everyone with the brush of insignificance then take a chill pill, calm down, and have fun - if you cannot do this, take a break ffs.

Yes? Yes.
Good day!

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Post by Damien » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:34 pm

A real, long-term-ish jail punishment in a game like this only makes real sense, if thought as a punishment, to punish annoying, unfair and/or engine-abusive behaviour by the player, by other players, thus taking work off the GM's shoulders. Actions that call for such treatment may be intown fighting and strong misbehaviour, robbery / kill and loot, stealing of traded stuff while trading and running, etc.
Note that a rped thief is different from an engine thief, for he would distract the "victim", and do thefts by emotes, and if such is well played and well emoted, the "victim" would drop stolen things of value / vcoins / etc, and just find out about the "theft" later, even like, not having an idea how it happened. Such RPed things, however, require the "victim" to play along and don't deserve an ingame prison time longer than an OOC day (or less).

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Post by Lrmy » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:17 pm

@The great one Everyone does not get "the same brush" as you put it. There are fines and town bans for lesser offenses. It seems more like the players of jailed characters put themselves in jail more than the jailer does. Starting a revolution or killing other players leaves everyone in a RP bind. As far is RPing in jail.. I think it is a good idea but it's absurd to make it a necessity. Not everyone can play at the same times.

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Post by Elijah » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:19 pm

The whole "RP in jail" sentiment doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You have 5 character slots.

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Post by S'rrt » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:54 pm

Elijah wrote:The whole "RP in jail" sentiment doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You have 5 character slots.
Yup, makes the whole being in jail- thing a whole lot more easier to digest when you can do something else as you wait for the sentence to end. You did a bad deed (unless you're innocent in which case you're free to make a scene out of it), you sit for it. I don't know if there are actual periods of time that are given to you upon jailing but if it gets out of hand, can't you just PM a GM (sounds like a line from a rap- song) something like: "Yo dude, my char's been inside tha rock for way too long, dog, I need liberation from this repression"?

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Post by PurpleMonkeys » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:56 pm

I understand what you're saying, Elijah, but there's two situations there. The first one is that one of your less important characters gets jailed, and it doesn't really bother the player because he has another character of equal or more importance that he can RP with. But if your favorite character gets jailed, then it's hard to get into a new char which you just have made, skilling a little and making a story, only to throw them away once the other is released.

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Post by Elijah » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:02 pm

People don't want to play worthless characters again. They feel like they spent so much time building up a certain characters money, skills, belongings, and popularity.. it's not as fun to log on a unknown character with absolutely nothing.

That's not what the game is about, though. It's not a competition of money, skills, belongings, and popularity. It's a RP game. If you are able to RP, your character will easily do as much, if not more then your "main".

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Post by Dantagon Marescot » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:34 pm

I think you are missing the point, Elijah. It isn't that people are looking to keep their characters out of jail (well, some may be), but that they are wanting more new and innovative rped punishments. If you look back at some of the posts you'll see suggestions for more creative punishments. There was almost a whole page (pg 2 I think) about how to make sentences more interesting for those who are being punished. Hell, it would make it more interesting for everyone involved.

Basically, people were suggesting that there were more creative punishments back in the medieval times than chucking someone in jail. Public humiliation being among them where they are set out in the courtyard with a sign or something telling you what they did. Either put them in a stocks or uncrossable wall and let them sit out there for all to see and know their crime. Remove limbs or put in place manual labor (would also be a good way to get more goods for the town). Find a way to create rp out of the crime than snuff out rp by throwing someone in jail and forgetting about them for the weekend.

Sure, people have 4 other characters to choose from, but don't make that an excuse to ignore possibly good rp.

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Post by Mr. Cromwell » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:51 pm

Have friends who'll stage a riot for you and pressure the government into releasing you (good times, with Will & Fooser). :wink:

Also being a pro and planning your crimes helps in getting away with them. Just a hint. ;)
Last edited by Mr. Cromwell on Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Elijah » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:51 pm

The only instances I've been involved in these situations would honestly not work. If you want to play the medieval times card, murderers would most likely be executed on the spot or in the time of Macbeth, plea bargained. Accusations of treason would be presented in the same manner I have presented IG. Bernie was scolded with a hot iron in front of everyone with a T, bearing the mark of a traitor.

If you want to be presented with lesser sentences for your character's actions ig, then do lesser crimes. Don't murder people IG, or try to raise a revolution and come crying to me that I did a practical RP option and took away your RP.

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Post by Dantagon Marescot » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:05 pm

It is for lesser crimes. Put the thief out for everyone to see, have the populous throw rotten foods at him. This isn't for murders or traitors. Though it could work for a traitor. It sends the message of "betray me and see what happens," watch as they weather the elements without shelter. People were coming up with some really good rped punishments, and all this is people not wanting to be punished for harsh crimes? No, this is rp idea generation at its best.

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Post by Kamilar » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:22 pm

Elijah wrote: I did a practical RP option and took away your RP.
This is the point exactly. A handful of players taking RP away from other players on a whim is bad for the game.

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Post by Lrmy » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:46 pm

Kamilar wrote:
Elijah wrote: I did a practical RP option and took away your RP.
This is the point exactly. A handful of players taking RP away from other players on a whim is bad for the game.
Even worse when players go around causing revolutions that no one can do anything about because it takes from their RP.

@Elijah Ask everyone you arrest for treason if they would rather be perm killed. Bring GMs into it if you have to. Seems nothing else makes sense.

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Post by Grokk » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:01 pm

The problem in this thread is that no one knows what the issue is that we are actually discussing.

This sort of thing probably causes the confusion:
Kamilar wrote:Also bad for the game is having one or two players decide what sort of roleplay is permitted and letting them ban the characters that don't fit into their gameworld view.
Kamilar wrote:A handful of players taking RP away from other players on a whim is bad for the game.
Nobody else is talking about this problem. No one else even sees this as the problem.

The players are not taking away RP, banning characters, or whatever other spin you want to put on it.

Their characters are imprisoning other characters. It is RP. I asked this before, but you ignored it: why do you continue to speak of jailer POs but prisoner characters?

These OOC PO hate crimes that you seem to be alluding to are an OOC issue. If you've had an OOC issue while playing, contact a GM. If the GMs do nothing about it, then there was probably no issue to begin with.

Imprisonment generates more RP than most IG actions. One of the few valid points you have made within this thread is that conflict is a necessary component of RP. Imprisonment creates a huge amount of conflict.

As has been repeated, oh so many times, we have 5 character slots. Use them, and add something to the game. Why does it matter if you can't log on to a single character, even for a month or so?

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Post by Nitram » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:30 pm

Now after 4 pages of discussion.

Does anyone still think that topic has or will have any impact on the game what so ever?

Nitram

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