Magic: Physical or Mental?
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- Alli Zelos
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Magic: Physical or Mental?
Hello, everyone. I'm sorry if this has been asked before, and I'd like to ask that no flaming starts from this, as usually happens when a magic discussion occurs.
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When magic is used for fighting ingame, does it do physical or mental damage?
For instance, if I throw a ball of fire at someone... are they burned by it? If I summon a magic flame, does it produce heat? Will it burn who touches it, or drain their "mental" health?
I have heard a few different responses to this question, and I'm looking for the most common way it is roleplayed by the community.
Thanks.
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When magic is used for fighting ingame, does it do physical or mental damage?
For instance, if I throw a ball of fire at someone... are they burned by it? If I summon a magic flame, does it produce heat? Will it burn who touches it, or drain their "mental" health?
I have heard a few different responses to this question, and I'm looking for the most common way it is roleplayed by the community.
Thanks.
- Djironnyma
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As far as i know, you get physical (life power) damage from spells, so such spells hurt the body. Fire hurts through burning, so it is not logical to pretend that a magical flame does not burn things.
Magical fire fields do not burn things or cause wildfires in the engine however. That is mainly because such an implementation would definitely cause half the island to be burned to the ground on a daily base.
The game-logic here clearly has to collide with "realism", of course a magic flame would burn things, that's how fire does damage. There have even been a few occasions where GMs have deleted items / carpets / walls or caused fires where a mage casted magical flames "at home", on his carpet and not on a fireplace.
I think, it is totally okay to trreat magical fire as burning things, however, if a mage is around (especially the one who created the spell), you can assume that he might have enough control about the spell to keep it from causing wildfires (in my opinion, it would still be unlogical to claim it would not damage the carpet it was cast on. Anything even close to a flame gets damaged from the heat.).
If you want to use pretty but harmless light sources as a mage, use illusion flames. These clearly do not ignite stuff. And if you want to cast a damage-dealing field spell without burning someones furniture, i recommend ice flames !
Magical fire fields do not burn things or cause wildfires in the engine however. That is mainly because such an implementation would definitely cause half the island to be burned to the ground on a daily base.
The game-logic here clearly has to collide with "realism", of course a magic flame would burn things, that's how fire does damage. There have even been a few occasions where GMs have deleted items / carpets / walls or caused fires where a mage casted magical flames "at home", on his carpet and not on a fireplace.
I think, it is totally okay to trreat magical fire as burning things, however, if a mage is around (especially the one who created the spell), you can assume that he might have enough control about the spell to keep it from causing wildfires (in my opinion, it would still be unlogical to claim it would not damage the carpet it was cast on. Anything even close to a flame gets damaged from the heat.).
If you want to use pretty but harmless light sources as a mage, use illusion flames. These clearly do not ignite stuff. And if you want to cast a damage-dealing field spell without burning someones furniture, i recommend ice flames !
Illusion flames also heal colds (placebo effect, which can be concluded to be the same result as normal ones), magical flames can't start forest fires, 100% magic resistance causes no damage from standing in a flame, though standing in a fire or being molotov'd will still hurt you. Wearing magical elven armour on your body, a metal, which would make fire hurt more, reduces fire damage. All "engine" evidence points to mental damage.Djironnyma wrote:it heal colds if you sit near to a summon flame
Depends on how you interpret it. Magical fire, to someone without the resistance, will burn away your skin. The fire is made up of magical components however, which you resist if you have magical resistance, meaning your body is not hurt by such components. It's like replacing your skin with fire retardant material, only in this case magic retardant material (a barrier which is mental in nature).Flux wrote:Illusion flames also heal colds (placebo effect, which can be concluded to be the same result as normal ones), magical flames can't start forest fires, 100% magic resistance causes no damage from standing in a flame, though standing in a fire or being molotov'd will still hurt you. Wearing magical elven armour on your body, a metal, which would make fire hurt more, reduces fire damage. All "engine" evidence points to mental damage.Djironnyma wrote:it heal colds if you sit near to a summon flame
So the engine can really point to both, depending on how you interpret it. The illusion flames can still give off heat. It really depends on how you build up the illusion, and which parts of the illusion are real. It all depends on the roleplay and on the way you want to see it.
- Dantagon Marescot
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I would think that if a flame generates heat it can still burn you. You don't actually have to touch the fire for it to burn. If you have every been in a glass studio you'll notice it is extremely hot in there. Although you are never actually touching the flames, if you get too close the heat from the ovens will not only scald you, but I have seen a few of my friends get something similar to a sunburn due to that.
So I would figure that even with illusionary flames, if you created it to generate heat and light I don't see why it couldn't burn you, or perhaps touching it would just cause an extreme amount of unpleasantness.
So I would figure that even with illusionary flames, if you created it to generate heat and light I don't see why it couldn't burn you, or perhaps touching it would just cause an extreme amount of unpleasantness.
- Kranek
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sry, but THAT is bulls***!Loophole wrote:role play it how you want to. As always there is no ''right answer'' it is how you want to see it. If someone IG has a different opinion then argue theoretics with them. If they complain ooc that you're doing it wrong? Ask for proof that there theory is right.
We cant see what our chars can feel. We have NO WAY to proof it ig, but it still has an effect. OOC-Informations are necessary to play correctly.
Just like the daytime/nighttime thing before they implemented the clock years ago.
Some where talking about the beautiful stars while a guy next to them was taking a sunbath!
- Alexander Knight
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And let the flaming begin...Kranek wrote:sry, but THAT is bulls***!Loophole wrote:role play it how you want to. As always there is no ''right answer'' it is how you want to see it. If someone IG has a different opinion then argue theoretics with them. If they complain ooc that you're doing it wrong? Ask for proof that there theory is right.
We cant see what our chars can feel. We have NO WAY to proof it ig, but it still has an effect. OOC-Informations are necessary to play correctly.
Just like the daytime/nighttime thing before they implemented the clock years ago.
Some where talking about the beautiful stars while a guy next to them was taking a sunbath!
But seriously, I'm thinking the spells differ like fire ball (KEL RA) would obviously be a physical one on my opinion where as the freezing spell (Cant remember what its called) and the hunger spell would seem to be a mental thing. All depends on how you see it. Do you see burning flesh and killing? Or do you see someone who is off their face on LSD and having a bad trip?
- Estralis Seborian
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No OOC-discussions in the game, please.Loophole wrote:If they complain ooc that you're doing it wrong? Ask for proof that there theory is right.
Magic is magic. A magical flame of magical fire is defiantly hot. It stays a magical fire, though. Hot stuff can ignite other stuff.
I don't quite understand why there needs to be a correlation of magic to effects IRL. It is magic. Is the damage physical or mental? It is magical!
PS: In Illarion, all damage is physical. I hope this covers the question.
- Pellandria
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Sorry but saying that magical flames burns stuff is just not really logical at all, seeing what the engine gives us we know: Magical fires do not start wildfires, the explanation with the system getting to big otherwise is not important, we hadn't wildfire before with the usual campfire we have it now, so there is no way this explanation counts.
Magical Fire does not burn anything, taking again the engine we know that highly magical resistend people can jsut put out flames without being hurt, but even those people will get fire damage from a campfire, so obviously the damage done by the magical fire must be different than those done by a normal fire and thus I think we need to decide what Mana and "lifeforce" truelly mean for a character.
I personally see magical flames as some kind of poision, without obvious signs of pain or burns, but with something that "eats up" the magic and mana from its surroundings, meanng it needs mana to burn , would be explaining why flame damage is screwed up with itemplacement, an item can or cannot deliver "mana" wich is usually "stored" inside of it, a badly done item has probably such a screwed up "storage" of mana that the flame can hardly acces the mana, thus the overall damage of the flame itself would be lowered.
So magical flames are of course doing damage, it pains people, but so does a headache, its more or less something that attacks the "very lifeforce" of you, which eats away the "mystical" energy that lies within you and eventually keeps you alive, which also would explain why illusion flames heal colds, a cold might just be some kind of sickness that is easly "burned" away in the "manaeating void" that surrounds a magical flame.
But of course in the end a mage should be able to decide if his flames truelly burn something and might possibly catch something on fire or not.
Magical Fire does not burn anything, taking again the engine we know that highly magical resistend people can jsut put out flames without being hurt, but even those people will get fire damage from a campfire, so obviously the damage done by the magical fire must be different than those done by a normal fire and thus I think we need to decide what Mana and "lifeforce" truelly mean for a character.
I personally see magical flames as some kind of poision, without obvious signs of pain or burns, but with something that "eats up" the magic and mana from its surroundings, meanng it needs mana to burn , would be explaining why flame damage is screwed up with itemplacement, an item can or cannot deliver "mana" wich is usually "stored" inside of it, a badly done item has probably such a screwed up "storage" of mana that the flame can hardly acces the mana, thus the overall damage of the flame itself would be lowered.
So magical flames are of course doing damage, it pains people, but so does a headache, its more or less something that attacks the "very lifeforce" of you, which eats away the "mystical" energy that lies within you and eventually keeps you alive, which also would explain why illusion flames heal colds, a cold might just be some kind of sickness that is easly "burned" away in the "manaeating void" that surrounds a magical flame.
But of course in the end a mage should be able to decide if his flames truelly burn something and might possibly catch something on fire or not.
- Kranek
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- Alexander Knight
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- Estralis Seborian
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Pellandria, please reread your third paragraph - you are using bug #186 as an argument to backup your personal point of view how magic should work...
Keep in mind that is your personal point of view which even contradicts actual ingame events. And if you want, we can implement in a minute that magical flames start wildfires. But we don't want to because wildfires are an annoyance. But if you insist that physical flames are only physical when the engine deletes items, you can have your will .
People - rely to common sense and what the engine tells you. If you step into a flame, you lose hit points. That means: it hurts! Why? Because it is hot! It is a flame. Not a mana field of poisonous mana consumption.
Keep in mind that is your personal point of view which even contradicts actual ingame events. And if you want, we can implement in a minute that magical flames start wildfires. But we don't want to because wildfires are an annoyance. But if you insist that physical flames are only physical when the engine deletes items, you can have your will .
People - rely to common sense and what the engine tells you. If you step into a flame, you lose hit points. That means: it hurts! Why? Because it is hot! It is a flame. Not a mana field of poisonous mana consumption.
- Kranek
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Yes:
If magic does not do actual physical damage (burned skin etc.) one could explain its effect like some sort of illness:
The magic hits ya and it reduces the amount of sugar in your blood, draining energy from your body. Like some sort of Insulin.
Magic-resistance could be explained as a sort of getting-used-to-it just like getting used to certain kinds of poison.
If magic does not do actual physical damage (burned skin etc.) one could explain its effect like some sort of illness:
The magic hits ya and it reduces the amount of sugar in your blood, draining energy from your body. Like some sort of Insulin.
Magic-resistance could be explained as a sort of getting-used-to-it just like getting used to certain kinds of poison.
- Alexander Knight
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- Kranek
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- Alexander Knight
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I agree.Estralis Seborian wrote:People - rely to common sense and what the engine tells you. If you step into a flame, you lose hit points. That means: it hurts! Why? Because it is hot! It is a flame. Not a mana field of poisonous mana consumption.
What I'm wondeing is what about "Non offensive" spells? Hunger spell for instance. Is it a cruel mind game? or does it actually fill your stomach up? either way I dont see why we are all bitching about it. It's magic... End of!
- Pellandria
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I just said it would explain said bug well atleast untill you fix the bug and everyone has to agree that, because of some weird circumstances, I guess its planet aligment or the holy power of narguns holy "I don't give a shit" words magic suddendly changes and all is well and fineEstralis Seborian wrote:Pellandria, please reread your third paragraph - you are using bug #186 as an argument to backup your personal point of view how magic should work...
Now I'm actually willing to listen what ig events you speak of, if you fear such an explanation breaks the overall meaning of the topic itself feel free to send me a pmEstralis Seborian wrote: Keep in mind that is your personal point of view which even contradicts actual ingame events. And if you want, we can implement in a minute that magical flames start wildfires. But we don't want to because wildfires are an annoyance. But if you insist that physical flames are only physical when the engine deletes items, you can have your will .
And if I eat to much I lose hitpoints aswell..does that mean that the actual stomachacid of my char is higly corrosiv just as the blood of the "aliens" in the alien movies and if so why is my character so incredibly dumb and always pukes on himself?Estralis Seborian wrote: People - rely to common sense and what the engine tells you. If you step into a flame, you lose hit points. That means: it hurts! Why? Because it is hot! It is a flame. Not a mana field of poisonous mana consumption.
Okay okay.
Magic. First of. Magic is lame. We all know it
Now magic produces damage. Damage is damage is damage. There is only one kind of damage. A character that is out of "mental power" does not die. Else mages would die when they are out of mana. I know some would like this but not our poor little mages. So no dieing from lack of mana.
So now the magical flame. A magical flame is a physical thing created by a mage and kept alive by the power of the mage. By logical consequence it should constantly drain mana from the mage while it burns because the mage has to invest his "power" to keep that flame. Again we do not do this because our loved mages would not like it for sure. Magic flames do not start wild fires because they are under constant control by the mage who summoned it.
Magical resistance now does not help against that flame directly. It shields of the magical power that keeps the flame burning and weakens it this way. This is also the reason why magical resistance helps against all kind of spells. No matter if fire or ice or poison or dirt. It always shields of the raw magical energy every spells needs to get a physical appearance.
So yes! Fire burns!
Nitram
Magic. First of. Magic is lame. We all know it
Now magic produces damage. Damage is damage is damage. There is only one kind of damage. A character that is out of "mental power" does not die. Else mages would die when they are out of mana. I know some would like this but not our poor little mages. So no dieing from lack of mana.
So now the magical flame. A magical flame is a physical thing created by a mage and kept alive by the power of the mage. By logical consequence it should constantly drain mana from the mage while it burns because the mage has to invest his "power" to keep that flame. Again we do not do this because our loved mages would not like it for sure. Magic flames do not start wild fires because they are under constant control by the mage who summoned it.
Magical resistance now does not help against that flame directly. It shields of the magical power that keeps the flame burning and weakens it this way. This is also the reason why magical resistance helps against all kind of spells. No matter if fire or ice or poison or dirt. It always shields of the raw magical energy every spells needs to get a physical appearance.
So yes! Fire burns!
Nitram
- Alexander Knight
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- Pellandria
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Ahh yes who would have thought that the both "lolz magic is only awesome becauz i can pownzors peoples with my yellow skills" people appear to spray their mustard around...as usual pointing sensless posts, so go back to powergame please, thank you.
So does that mean now a mage could be allowed to use magical flames to burn down any building he would like to?
So does that mean now a mage could be allowed to use magical flames to burn down any building he would like to?
- Estralis Seborian
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