Ropes.

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

Moderator: Gamemasters

LifeWonder
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:43 am
Location: !! Don't send PMs/doves to this account. Send them to Karl !!

Ropes.

Post by LifeWonder »

Yeah, no.

They're way, way, way too overpowered. A blatantly clear example of powergaming really.

Anyone can walk up to anyone and tie them. Apparently people aren't even taking the time to roleplay knocking the other person off or anything.

Also, what's with losing whatever you're carrying? At least make it fall in our bag or something, not the ground.

Also, it's a KILLER weapon against mage. Nothing a mage can do will stop anyone. Spells don't interrupt the cast and unweilding your wand and ctrl + clicking would take much more time.. the other person would be done tying you up.

It's really bad. :/ I like the whole idea but don't make it SO damn easy to tie someone up.
User avatar
Llama
Posts: 7685
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:02 pm
Location: The VBU is awesome
Contact:

Post by Llama »

Hmm, now we have a way of nicking things from afk-ed characters ;)

I don't think its a good idea either, just saying. Give 'special ropes' to those who need it. Not everyone.
User avatar
Avalyon el'Hattarr
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:42 pm
Location: Heaven and Hell
Contact:

Post by Avalyon el'Hattarr »

The rope has a "cast time" like a potion. If you move or attack the "caster" when he is tieing you up, the action will fail. Seems fair to me, i dont see anything overpowered here.
User avatar
Mesha
Posts: 1238
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:49 am
Location: Chris Colfer's underpants
Contact:

Post by Mesha »

Remember the first rule: play cooperatively! This is mandatory for this feature to be fun for all.
Taken directly from the wiki. I hope you know this means that as always, you have to RP. :)
User avatar
pharse
Posts: 1787
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:33 pm

Post by pharse »

There was actually really something that didn't work correctly which made tying quite easy. But I fixed that.

However, Mesha is right.
Retlak
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:20 pm

Post by Retlak »

Lifewonder is such a noob.
Celtag
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:07 pm

Post by Celtag »

If Illarion is meant to be a proper serious RP game, then why do we actually need a rope tool? Everyone on the game can roleplay being tied up and will give some characters a chance to break free, I don't see its very good that a character with say 18 strength can be tied up by a female crafter halfling for example.
User avatar
Pellandria
Posts: 2604
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 6:06 pm
Location: Running around
Contact:

Post by Pellandria »

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:The rope has a "cast time" like a potion. If you move or attack the "caster" when he is tieing you up, the action will fail. Seems fair to me, i dont see anything overpowered here.
You should have tried that before yxou talk about it, walking away does ~not~ stop the tyieng up, maybe its fixed by now, only attack does, but no casting e.g. Fireballs or even area spells did interrupt the tiing up.

Means any warrior could just run up to a mage and tie him up, the time it takes to remove the wand and to beat the warior with the fists would have taken to long, obviously beause the mouse moves so damm slow.
User avatar
pharse
Posts: 1787
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:33 pm

Post by pharse »

why can't you hit your enemy with your wand? (okay, technically restricted, got it)
Anyway, I fixed exactly what you described.

Measures against being captured:
- Interrupt the enemy (like interrupting when drinking a potion)
- change your position
Last edited by pharse on Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Avalyon el'Hattarr
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:42 pm
Location: Heaven and Hell
Contact:

Post by Avalyon el'Hattarr »

Celtag wrote:If Illarion is meant to be a proper serious RP game, then why do we actually need a rope tool? Everyone on the game can roleplay being tied up and will give some characters a chance to break free, I don't see its very good that a character with say 18 strength can be tied up by a female crafter halfling for example.
Why do you need weapons to fight, when you can just roleplay fighting? why do you need tools to craft, when you can just roleplay crafting? Why do you need scripts and graphics all toghether? Let's just open a chat channel and roleplay there! :roll:
User avatar
Llama
Posts: 7685
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:02 pm
Location: The VBU is awesome
Contact:

Post by Llama »

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:Why do you need weapons to fight, when you can just roleplay fighting? why do you need tools to craft, when you can just roleplay crafting? Why do you need scripts and graphics all toghether? Let's just open a chat channel and roleplay there! :roll:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Fallacy ;)
Celtag
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:07 pm

Post by Celtag »

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:
Celtag wrote:If Illarion is meant to be a proper serious RP game, then why do we actually need a rope tool? Everyone on the game can roleplay being tied up and will give some characters a chance to break free, I don't see its very good that a character with say 18 strength can be tied up by a female crafter halfling for example.
Why do you need weapons to fight, when you can just roleplay fighting? why do you need tools to craft, when you can just roleplay crafting? Why do you need scripts and graphics all toghether? Let's just open a chat channel and roleplay there! :roll:
Funny guy
User avatar
pharse
Posts: 1787
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:33 pm

Post by pharse »

Celtag wrote:If Illarion is meant to be a proper serious RP game, then why do we actually need a rope tool? Everyone on the game can roleplay being tied up and will give some characters a chance to break free, I don't see its very good that a character with say 18 strength can be tied up by a female crafter halfling for example.
Not all players, rather the majority, are not as mature as Illarion deserves it. We have to face reality.

This system is meant to be an engine wise "hint" how to roleplay some situations. It seems to be incredible hard for some players to admit that they are captured. So they try to break free out of some strange roleplay reason.

This is prevented by this system. Once they're captured, they have to play along.

Nothing changes for those "serious roleplayers" as you describe it. They don't need any rope or handcuffs to be captured and jailed.


Oh: This is the last time I justify any new feature. Just try it instead of moaning.
User avatar
Nitram
Developer
Posts: 7638
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:51 am
Contact:

Post by Nitram »

Celtag wrote:
Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:
Celtag wrote:If Illarion is meant to be a proper serious RP game, then why do we actually need a rope tool? Everyone on the game can roleplay being tied up and will give some characters a chance to break free, I don't see its very good that a character with say 18 strength can be tied up by a female crafter halfling for example.
Why do you need weapons to fight, when you can just roleplay fighting? why do you need tools to craft, when you can just roleplay crafting? Why do you need scripts and graphics all toghether? Let's just open a chat channel and roleplay there! :roll:
Funny guy
A funny guy indeed. But he is absolutly right in this case. If you want a plain hardcore roleplaying game you should look for some PnP like chat room. There you find plain real roleplay.

Illarion is more like a mix of engine and roleplay. We have the engine to support our roleplay. In this case the ropes, to have the engine checking if a action you want to do is successfully or not. Thats fair in the way. In Illarion you can't play a uber strong fighter without the engine and so the needed skills. In a plain roleplaying game without engine you can, since there are no skills.

Keep that in mind.

Nitram
Celtag
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:07 pm

Post by Celtag »

pharse wrote: Not all players, rather the majority, are not as mature as Illarion deserves it. We have to face reality.

This system is meant to be an engine wise "hint" how to roleplay some situations. It seems to be incredible hard for some players to admit that they are captured. So they try to break free out of some strange roleplay reason.

This is prevented by this system. Once they're captured, they have to play along.

Nothing changes for those "serious roleplayers" as you describe it. They don't need any rope or handcuffs to be captured and jailed.


Oh: This is the last time I justify any new feature. Just try it instead of moaning.
Fair point.
Oh I wasn't moaning at all, I was asking a question. Last time I played Illarion a few years ago it was a lot stricter so this confused me a little
LifeWonder
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:43 am
Location: !! Don't send PMs/doves to this account. Send them to Karl !!

Post by LifeWonder »

Pharse, casting spell on someone also doesn't interrupt it..

Also the casting time is way too short in my opinion, lots of people don't type/can't react fast enough..
User avatar
pharse
Posts: 1787
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:33 pm

Post by pharse »

LifeWonder wrote:Pharse, casting spell on someone also doesn't interrupt it..
I don't care. It uses the same command like the potion scripts. I don't see any need of adding there some extraordinary thingy. Moving ONE tile isn't an impossible thing to do, even for mages. I've seen mages teleporting over short distances just because they can. Well, now this really has a good use.
If you can still convince me that it's really necessary, I will implement the interruption by spell casting.
Also the casting time is way too short in my opinion, lots of people don't type/can't react fast enough..
5 seconds is long enough. (Any shorter casting time: well, cought in a bad moment. Tough luck.)
Just move away and THEN start typing.

Abusive behaviour can be reported to GMs.
User avatar
Taliss Kazzxs
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:47 am
Contact:

Post by Taliss Kazzxs »

Thanks pharse this is a very nice addition to the game, anyone not appreciating your work can go suck a dwarf. :P
Retlak
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:20 pm

Post by Retlak »

Karl is such a n00b.
LifeWonder
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:43 am
Location: !! Don't send PMs/doves to this account. Send them to Karl !!

Post by LifeWonder »

pharse wrote:
LifeWonder wrote:Pharse, casting spell on someone also doesn't interrupt it..
I don't care. It uses the same command like the potion scripts. I don't see any need of adding there some extraordinary thingy. Moving ONE tile isn't an impossible thing to do, even for mages. I've seen mages teleporting over short distances just because they can. Well, now this really has a good use.
If you can still convince me that it's really necessary, I will implement the interruption by spell casting.
Also the casting time is way too short in my opinion, lots of people don't type/can't react fast enough..
5 seconds is long enough. (Any shorter casting time: well, cought in a bad moment. Tough luck.)
Just move away and THEN start typing.

Abusive behaviour can be reported to GMs.
I'm not saying it's a bad feature, it's pretty nice, you just need to fix some things in it..

The same way as someone attacking his abductor/whoever is tying him up, well spells are an attack too.. so I don't see why it wouldn't work..
User avatar
Avalyon el'Hattarr
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:42 pm
Location: Heaven and Hell
Contact:

Post by Avalyon el'Hattarr »

Because it's easier to walk 1 tile than casting a spell, lol. Making the spells to intrerupt the rope "casting" is extra work for nothing .
LifeWonder
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:43 am
Location: !! Don't send PMs/doves to this account. Send them to Karl !!

Post by LifeWonder »

But if you're surrounded, or there's something blocking your way, then you're fawked?
User avatar
Avalyon el'Hattarr
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:42 pm
Location: Heaven and Hell
Contact:

Post by Avalyon el'Hattarr »

Lol, show me a mage that would let himself be surrounded :D

anyway, i've tested the rope, it's a nice feature.. kinda easy to escape if you'd ask me, but meh.. it's cool, lol.
LifeWonder
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:43 am
Location: !! Don't send PMs/doves to this account. Send them to Karl !!

Post by LifeWonder »

I know it's cool, I'm not doubting its coolness or utility.. I'm just saying that if the person tying someone up gets hit, they should be interrupted is all.
User avatar
Llama
Posts: 7685
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:02 pm
Location: The VBU is awesome
Contact:

Post by Llama »

LifeWonder wrote:I know it's cool, I'm not doubting its coolness or utility..
Save the woman from being molested by lizards!
LifeWonder
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:43 am
Location: !! Don't send PMs/doves to this account. Send them to Karl !!

Post by LifeWonder »

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
LifeWonder wrote:I know it's cool, I'm not doubting its coolness or utility..
Save the woman from being molested by lizards!
CAPTAIN BLAKE TO THE RESCUE!
User avatar
AlexRose
Posts: 4790
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:18 pm
Location: Megajiggawhat?

Post by AlexRose »

LifeWonder wrote:But if you're surrounded, or there's something blocking your way, then you're fawked?
Well don't get surrounded.

Or.. JUS TAUR KEL. It doesn't take 5 seconds. I think if a mage is surrounded and then has the great idea of blasting the person with a rope it'll just mean he gets pked instead.
User avatar
Saigwin
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:02 pm
Location: Galmair

Post by Saigwin »

Ok , as I'm sure Retlak will point out in his infinite wisdom, I'm a newb, but doesn't casting take a certain amount of concentration. I doubt a person being tied up is not going to be able to concentrate enough to cast a spell. especially the stuck up gods gift to the world(How dare you think you can tie me up) mages in Illarion. As for being surrounded, would it not make sense that those other people would be helping the tier.

Last but not least, Did I understand correctly...If you are tied up you lose all your things? If so, why...I'm sure tieing someone up doesn't include turning them upside down and shaking them. Maybe if the tier had access to the victims bags and pockets it would make sense for them to transfer things to the ground or his own pockets.

My two copper,
Saigwin
User avatar
pharse
Posts: 1787
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:33 pm

Post by pharse »

Wiki wrote:If you carry items in the hand slots when being tied up, then the items are dropped on the floor and the slots will be occupied.
http://illarion.org/community/wiki/index.php/Tying

Reading is said to be good for information gathering.

Image
User avatar
Kaila Galathil Travinus
Posts: 539
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:50 am
Contact:

Post by Kaila Galathil Travinus »

I doubt a person being tied up is not going to be able to concentrate enough to cast a spell. especially the stuck up gods gift to the world(How dare you think you can tie me up) mages in Illarion.
IMO it is best not to generalize about a group of players, or if have a specific problem address it in a PM. *shrugs*


Back to the subject, like Lifewonder I am concerned about those (me) with slower reflexes as far as casting since my char can't seem to cast fast enough to fight anymore being stopped too often when hit (and I wish now she had more agility so could at least run) , however I am assuming time will tell and possibly more testing of the ropes should be done before any suggestions. In the mean time it sounds just from reading the threads, that it is even more important for a mage not to get close to another char :wink:


My main concern when reading the wiki is
If you carry items in the hand slots when being tied up, then the items are dropped on the floor and the slots will be occupied.
This IMO mainly can harm a mage. Having one of my chars tied up I don't remember the loss of items in the hand...however most fighters that loose a weapon can usually get another similar eventually....yet for a mage to loose a wand is a lot worse..and most mages carry their wands.

I would prefer NOT to loose items in the hand... or better yet, if you want the hands free... allow the items to be placed in the bag or even a depot if can be programmed that way.

Another option is a message to the char "you are now tied and can't use any item in your hand until the rope loosens" and let everyone RP this placing valuable items in their bag.... after all the game it not totally engine based but should be RP'd also. Just my 2 cents.
Post Reply