Illarion Awards lock

[Korm Kormsen]

groups with different rights means to define rights for the different groups, and for the different forum sections. that would be additional work.
best idea in this useless thread was: "kick the offenders!"

[Misjbar]

Actually, you are using PhPBB right? Which version exactly? Because I think I have actually done something like that on a forum I modded a few months ago.

[Nitram]

phpbb 2.0.22

While I doubt we need anything like this. It works well as it is.

[Misjbar]

Yeh, just trying to offer solutions. ;_; You can make a group below normal users, where you can slap people in. So they can only read and PM.

[The Returner]

Well, I honestly don't want the staff to waste resources used in development on the forum, so I honestly care not which system is in place so long as the dots never come back.

[Ivar Kraftimarm]

groups with different rights means to define rights for the different groups, and for the different forum sections. that would be additional work.
best idea in this useless thread was: "kick the offenders!"

this was made before, but the problem is that the kicked offenders made new accounts, made new spam posts, made new annoying threads...
in my oppinion is a spam forum the best solution. but try what you want, everything is better than they way this is handled now.

[Damien]

The more handling you need, the more manpower you need as well.
Moderators need to be consequent sometimes, else people will do whatever they want and whereever they want.

I think it is alright if a moderator locks a topic after he deleted six or seven spam posts from it and then saw that the topic attracted more spam still.

People know that topics get deleted if they are overspammed, so they should just keep it to the right places a little. Additionally, you can just "hide" the spam in your post if you really think it will do fine in the related topic :

I say that even though i can be quite a little spammer myself, YARRR ye scurvy sons of a scalawag bilge herring !

[Pellandria]

People know that topics get deleted if they are overspammed, so they should just keep it to the right places a little. Additionally, you can just "hide" the spam in your post if you really think it will do fine in the related topic :

You know its actually a problem, people just overspamm a few Topics to lock them.

[Ivar Kraftimarm]

nice views...

ok, if it is a lot work, why don't you get some help from new moderators? i am sure there are a lot of ambitious people in this forum.

it's strange. the moderators and coder have to much work, but they don't want help...

[Aegohl]

Or not. Why does Illarion have to pay for your bandwidth so you can write "blah blah fart cock monkeys" on a whim? This isn't 4chan and it shouldn't be. If you want to spam, 4chan is still there for that.

My suggestion stands at:

Ban the worst offenders. First start with a temp board ban, work up to a full ban including a ban from the game.

Chill out otherwise. Too much locking, post edits, and hollering will cause rebellion and trolling.

I don't like it when people assume I go on 4chan because I express myself in images. ;<

Hit a nerve, huh? =P

[Greisling]

I think it's a pitty that the thread was closed.

Recently there was not much activity in this Forum except the usual stuff. You should be happy about any activity in the community my dearest powerful women and men up there on Olymp.
Perhaps it's time to lay back and relax for both players and the staff.

Last but not least I want to sign Ivar's coment.

nice views...

ok, if it is a lot work, why don't you get some help from new moderators? i am sure there are a lot of ambitious people in this forum.

it's strange. the moderators and coder have to much work, but they don't want help...

Perhaps I'll post the same awards thread under a slighty different name in a few days.

[Damien]

Perhaps we should just generally write off-topic-spam in a way that does not disturb the topic.
That includes writing someting FOR the topic first, so your posts have some sense at least, and THEN the spam in a shape that does not jump to the eye.

If everyyone would spam like this, most of the spam may not really disturb anyone. Like this little example here - well, it may not really hit the sense of spam, but everyone who can read it can still read it right ?
Another (more technical) solution would be to be able to mark ones own post as SPAM if you want to spam, and then it does not show up in the topic for people who have deactivated to read SPAM marked posts. Of course mods should be able to SPAM-mark your posts in topics as well...

[Juliana D'cheyne]

Perhaps we should just generally write off-topic-spam in a way that does not disturb the topic.
That includes writing someting FOR the topic first, so your posts have some sense at least, and THEN the spam in a shape that does not jump to the eye.

If everyyone would spam like this, most of the spam may not really disturb anyone. Like this little example here - well, it may not really hit the sense of spam, but everyone who can read it can still read it right ?
Another (more technical) solution would be to be able to mark ones own post as SPAM if you want to spam, and then it does not show up in the topic for people who have deactivated to read SPAM marked posts. Of course mods should be able to SPAM-mark your posts in topics as well...

It seems a little extreme to ban for spam..... some people think a post is spam, and others not. Though most isn't a judgement call and fairly obvious, some aren't. How "strict" do you want to be with the definition of spam is another question?

This is a very interesting idea if can be accomplished, it gives an option to read or not. Another alternative would be to have an option to "ignore" the topic so it won't show in "new posts since last visit" AND reducing the size. I am not sure if this is programmable, but some forums have the option to ignore topic and even to ignore certain forums.

[LifeWonder]

Or not. Why does Illarion have to pay for your bandwidth so you can write "blah blah fart cock monkeys" on a whim? This isn't 4chan and it shouldn't be. If you want to spam, 4chan is still there for that.

My suggestion stands at:

Ban the worst offenders. First start with a temp board ban, work up to a full ban including a ban from the game.

Chill out otherwise. Too much locking, post edits, and hollering will cause rebellion and trolling.

I don't like it when people assume I go on 4chan because I express myself in images. ;<

Hit a nerve, huh? =P

Sorry, hit harder.

I just think it's kind of stupid when people say anyone who posts lolcats or whatnot comes from 4chan.

[Korm Kormsen]

Perhaps we should just generally write off-topic-spam in a way that does not disturb the topic.

i disagree.
at least with the way you chose to do so.
everytime somebody writes something in tiny letters, he obligates the readers to extra efforts.
that is plain childish in my eyes.

[Julius]

Copy and paste into a msn convo is that hard?

[The Returner]

It seems a little extreme to ban for spam..... some people think a post is spam, and others not.

Illarion is a top 100 mmo, it wants to retain this status. Some spam might be humorous or even benefit the thread. However most is not. We have a moderated off-topic forum in which draws much spam and inactive players, but the moderation there is moody and inconsistent like the rest of the forums. I dont think more moderators is the answer, it has never worked in the past. I think a consistent system and ruleset be applied to all moderators and forum goer's that is placed in stickeys and somewhere creative that forces users to view them.

[Julius]

We're a top 100 mmo?

[Korm Kormsen]

Copy and paste into a msn convo is that hard?

yes.
if you want others to read it, write it readable. if you don't want it read, don't write it. that simple.

[Fooser]

Copy and paste into a msn convo is that hard?

yes.
if you want others to read it, write it readable. if you don't want it read, don't write it. that simple.

But what if I want only people who make the extra effort to read it?

[Lrmy]

Copy and paste into a msn convo is that hard?

yes.
if you want others to read it, write it readable. if you don't want it read, don't write it. that simple.

But what if I want only people who make the extra effort to read it?

An example?

[Aegohl]

If everyyone would spam like this, most of the spam may not really disturb anyone. Like this little example here - well, it may not really hit the sense of spam, but everyone who can read it can still read it right ?
Another (more technical) solution would be to be able to mark ones own post as SPAM if you want to spam, and then it does not show up in the topic for people who have deactivated to read SPAM marked posts. Of course mods should be able to SPAM-mark your posts in topics as well...

And then we could build a spaceship and fly it to the moon and build a house on the dark side of the moon and everyone will be happy there and we'll ride unicorns over rainbows.

[Gryphius]

Perhaps we should just generally write off-topic-spam in a way that does not disturb the topic.

Sounds nice in theory, but i fear you miss a crucial aspect about spamming: That cost-benefit calculation your code of conduct demands does not happen in the heads of particularly energetic spammers. The incentive behind willful spamming in initially factual threads mostly is the classic lamer-behavior ("What's no fun to me may be no fun to others."), or simply a strange conception of humor, just like in that bizarre Fleximania-thread, where someone felt the RPG-Section would be a great place cutting wrestling-promos.

However, there's no definite recipe against that. As soon the rust sticks to your car, you'll never get rid of it again. But with a greater number of users, that's any forum's destiny, so we have to live with that to a certain degree. Doesen't mean, though, that there're no ways to at least dam it up a bit. But initially, i think there'll be no way around adding a bit on the moderating personal. I'd certainly be just as frustrated as Arien, if i had to shoulder that much alone.

But i still have the opinion that closing the award-thread at that point was unnecessary. I had the feeling that by far not everyone willing to participate in a resonable way had the chance to submit his opinion to that point.

---

Klingt zwar schön in der Theorie, allerdings fürchte ich, dass es einen tragenden Aspekt des Spamming außer Acht lässt: Diese Kosten/Nutzen-Rechnung, die deine Verhaltensnorm erfordern würde, findet in den Köpfen der besonders tatkräftigen Spammer gar nicht statt. Der Antrieb hinter mutwilligem Spammen in eingangs sachlich fundierten Threads ist in aller Regel mehr das klassische Lamer-Verhalten ("Was mir keinen Spaß macht, soll niemandem Spaß machen."), oder einfach ein seltsames Humorverständnis; Besonders gut zu beobachten bei diesem bizarren Fleximania-Thread, wo wohl jemand die RPG-Sektion als den passenden Ort für Wrestling-Promos hielt.

Ein Patentrezept gegen sowas gibt es leider nicht. Wenn der Rost erstmal an der Karre angesetzt hat, kriegst du ihn nicht mehr ab. Aber das ist einfach ein Schicksal, welches wohl jedem Forum mit großer Userzahl irgendwann widerfährt, daher muss man in gewissem Maße damit leben. Das heißt natürlich nicht, dass keine Wege und Mittel gäbe, es zumindest einzudämmen. Allerdings wird zunächst, denke ich kein Weg drumherum führen, das Moderatoren-Personal etwas aufzustocken. Ich wäre mit Sicherheit genauso frustriert wie Arien, wenn ich so viel allein schultern müsste.

Ich glaube dennoch nicht, dass die Schließung des Award-Thread zu dem Zeitpunkt schon nötig war. Ich hatte das Gefühl, dass bei weitem noch nicht alle, die sich gern sinnvoll beteiligt hätten, zur Sprache gekommen waren.

[Faladron]

Ich frage mich warum diese Drohung:

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 496#537496

Anscheinend wirkungslos verpufft ist.

[LifeWonder]

If everyyone would spam like this, most of the spam may not really disturb anyone. Like this little example here - well, it may not really hit the sense of spam, but everyone who can read it can still read it right ?
Another (more technical) solution would be to be able to mark ones own post as SPAM if you want to spam, and then it does not show up in the topic for people who have deactivated to read SPAM marked posts. Of course mods should be able to SPAM-mark your posts in topics as well...

And then we could build a spaceship and fly it to the moon and build a house on the dark side of the moon and everyone will be happy there and we'll ride unicorns over rainbows.

Quit yer spamming.

[The great one]

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 667#539667

It seems the German population have the allowance to spam generally often... Though, if one would notice, they tend to be more subtle about it.

Maybe we can learn something from these people.

[Misjbar]

They can spam, because the moderators are natively german. This means they understand their kind of humour, and can appreciate it more. They see it less as spam, and more as a humorous note in a serious discussion.

[Roland Tafar]

Langsam wird die Diskussion sehr unseriös.

Die Moderatoren tun ihre Arbeit so gut sie können. Sie entfernen Müll, den andere hinterlassen haben.
Völlig unnötig eigentlich, denn einfacher wäre es, keinen Müll zu produzieren.

Was machen die Spammer? Hören sie auf? Haben sie Respekt vor denjenigen, die anderen etwas Sinnvolles mitteilen wollen oder Fragen haben?
Nein. Sie müllen immer weiter alles zu, labern quer und blöd und versuchen dann noch, den Spieß umzudrehen und den Moderatoren (die nie behauptet haben, fehlerfrei zu sein) Fehler nachzuweisen.

Über die Methoden der Müllentfernung kann man gerne diskutieren, aber alles darüber hinaus sind direkte Hinweise, dass einige bei den Altersangaben gemogelt haben.

Das kann übrigens übersetzen, wer mag.

[The Returner]

They can spam, because the moderators are natively german. This means they understand their kind of humour, and can appreciate it more. They see it less as spam, and more as a humorous note in a serious discussion.

This is true. Remember that non-native germans are basicly guests to this german made game. Most of the staff is german and germans in effect run the show.

If you are a guest in someones house you should conduct yourself accordingly. And even germans know that some spam isent harmfull, its the bad spam that brings this community down.

[Mr. Cromwell]

They can spam, because the moderators are natively german. This means they understand their kind of humour, and can appreciate it more. They see it less as spam, and more as a humorous note in a serious discussion.

This is true. Remember that non-native germans are basicly guests to this german made game. Most of the staff is german and germans in effect run the show.

If you are a guest in someones house you should conduct yourself accordingly. And even germans know that some spam isent harmfull, its the bad spam that brings this community down.

I don't see how the fact that the game is run by Germans (and an odd evil Austrian lurking around here and there) should change anything regarding the treatment of german-speaking in relation to the non-german speaking players.

The German players, contrary to what you are insiunating, are just as much guests here as you and me (with the exception of those germans who belong in the verein/staff).

The main difference between "us" and "ze germans" is simply the larger presence of "knowing eachother"-factor. What I mean by this is that the people who post in that particular thread, for instance, are more likely to have met and made friends with the staff face to face. Because we are humans and such, this might often translate into somewhat different treatment in cases of misbehaviour. Which is understandable.