Tools Degrading too fast or just sickles?

[Achae Eanstray]

Three sickles in two days, the latest went from good, slightly scraped to good corroded after using it to pick 150 sibinac leaves..25 more sibinac and tool breaks and disappears.

Anyone else have problems with other tools, or is it just sickles?

[Tanistian_Kanea]

i went through crazy amount of scissors. i used an average, used pair turn 90 wool into cloth before they broke. while i was doing this a in the workshop i asked a metal smith to fix it, mentioning that the wool seemed to be harder. he mentioned he was going threw hammers really fast.

[Olive]

just about all my tools except hammers seem to be degradign rapidly.

but i think this is in the wrong forum
means more business for me as i can make just about every tool
*evil grin*

[Achae Eanstray]

just about all my tools except hammers seem to be degradign rapidly.

but i think this is in the wrong forum
means more business for me as i can make just about every tool
*evil grin*

The problem is, for the slow skill gain it is just not worth using some tools with such a fast degradation if the end product....i.e. sibinac for thread for tailoring doesn't bring any coin anyway.

*didn't want to buy anymore so just got out of game*

[Gro'bul]

quite good scraped - quite good highly scraped after 5 trees/roughly 100-150 actions. Thats only one condition level though. My char is very good at lumberjacking, might effect that. Thats roughly 600 actions till breaking. Repairing restores typically 2-3 condition or 300-450 actions. Could repair 2-3 times.

[Achae Eanstray]

150-200 sibinac, roughly 13 plants for one sickle.. approximately 20-30 minutes ig time. Finding a smith to repair especially some times ig would usually take longer then buying a new one for approximately 12 copper. The quick move from good or very good scratched to corroded in 20-30 minutes time seems a tiny bit unreasonable and just adds to the frustration of attempting at the start simply to make blue dye...hunting anger berries. If other tools also degrade that fast, I am VERY glad I only have one crafter!

[Borine]

My wooden shovel broke...I got a new one good slightly scraped...and after around 5 flour it broke again

[Lennier]

Aye i did some work on the breaks-item function. A first version of me. In the past it did not work. So maybe the new rates of breaking tools seems to be high.

I tested my self and i only can say: Search for good tools in quality and durability. In my tests i had the possibilities to get ~2.000 herbs before a very good sickle get lowered more and more to a bad one until it was broken.

The chance for tool-breaking depands on the quality and durability of the tool and a special ratio of str and dex of the char. Chars which have talent to be crafter have a lower chance to break the tool.


If the tool has a bad durability but still a good quality, best would be to find a crafter to repair it. That should be cheaper than to risk the break during the change between good-used-normal-bad etc.

In extension of the change of tools-break i also will change the npc-traders. The quality will not be the best. But i think the durability should be higher. So i lift up the durability, so that you can buy bad but useable tools. But allways it would better you find PC-crafters.

[Vern Kron]

Can this please be changed to a slower rate of losing items? A newbie crafter wouldn't last very long at that rate. Also, what are we supposed to do if we do not play in times when there are people around that can understand us?

More over, why is this rate faster than the rate weapons decrease?

[JonathanSmith]

yesterday I used 3 pincers during melting iron. too much in my opinion.

[Jupiter]

yesterday I used 3 pincers during melting iron. too much in my opinion.

Yesterday has 24 hours. Would be better if you say, how much you did melt.

[JonathanSmith]

About 100 bars or so, max. 150.

[Achae Eanstray]

I tested my self and i only can say: Search for good tools in quality and durability. In my tests i had the possibilities to get ~2.000 herbs before a very good sickle get lowered more and more to a bad one until it was broken.

I would say then that something messed up between the test and actual practice or your char has exceptional skill. Crafter char using a good-very good sickle only slightly scratched to scratched........ three sickle for 500-600 sibinac is not good.
Realizing this is set up to encourage repair and help I guess smithing who ALREADY has coin from armor and weapon whereas other professions are still struggling except cooks...... how does this help crafting? It can't help RP much except mainly German time when someone can just POSSIBLY find someone to repair the tool.

I can see later on, when other professions such as glass blowing, tailoring etc. can earn at least a small amount of coin.

IMO all this does is discourage crafting in general, maybe not to established crafters, but to new players which some already stop crafting after trying for a little. *shrugs*

Has this been tested on a new char... to actually see how hard it is to become good with crafting anything?

[Lennier]

If you think that it goes to fast, write me about your tests. I need the name of your char, the tool with his quality/duability to the begin and how long you was able to use it.

In general you should rethink and forget the old situation. Toolbreak is a normal happen. Same like to need food. All people want an running economie and the possibilities to act like a crafter. So here is your chance. A whole new parket for crafters to support other ones.

NPC-Traders are also changed now. Their tools have a higher durability as before. Today i will work on npc-traders again, so that you can buy more tools, inspecial in Trolls Bane.

[Rosendil]

All people want an running economie ...

LOL

Do you really think, that breaking tools or disabling potions during fighting leads to a running econimie?

Dont throw the players stones in their way, again and again!

Proposal, to maybe establish a good economie:
- Force specialisation on a single craft.
- Reduce the droprate of items, drop more coppers/silver instead
- Reduce the items in the treasures, add silver/gold instead
- Remove the items from the NPCs that can be crafted by characters.

Let the crafters make 100% of the needed items in that game. Establish NPC traders that buy the overproduction at a reasonalble price. Dont let the NPC sell the items the crafters can make (e.g. dye, bags, armors, weapons).
Of course, it should be possible that some exceptional items could be found in drops or treasures, but at a very low rate.

PO Rosendil

[pharse]

Do YOU really think that your ideas would lead to a running economy? Such vague statements cannot be just easily implemented as you might think.

[Faladron]

Keep the item breakrate as it is, cutting hundreds of plants with one sickle WILL make it dull eventually.

How about just buying more than one tool at a time then, so you can have a stockpile?

And don't bring the weak "New players will be discouraged by the high prices they have to pay for tools", every new player learns how to make coin pretty fast (some even faster than they learn how to roleplay) and you know that.

None of you will buy good tools for more than 50-100 cp tops anyway and compared to armor and weapons (which last longer while being considerably more expensive), the break-rate for something as mundane as crafting tools is good as it is.

If you raise the amount of work one can perform with a tool, also adjust the NPC prices accordingly (raise them).

A last question to the people complaining:

Did you check your characters attributes? If you got a character with considerably higher strenght than dexterity tools will break faster because that character is not suitable for crafting. So those characters have to suffer a disadvantage otherwise the influence of attributes could be disabled alltogether so every char has the same chances as everyone else at all times.

[Pepe Zwirnfaden]

I have the same problem.
2 sickles in 2 Ig days .

--------------------------------------------------------

Nachdem meine sehr gute Sichel leicht abgenutzt war, konnte ich alle paar minuten eine verschlechterung feststellen.

nach ca 20 minuten der Kräutersuche war meine sehr gute leicht abgenutze Sichel nur noch sehr gut und rostig.
Die Ausbeute dieser 20 minuten waren ungefähr 250 Kräuter.

Ich bin der Meinug das sich da was ändern muss.
Vieleicht könnte man die die Zeit etwas mehr berücksichtigen.
Eine exelente oder sehr gute Sichel, sollte auch bei häufigem gebrauch mindestens ein Ig Jahr halten.

Wenn ich mir im Baumarkt ein gutes Werkzeug kaufe, erwarte ich ja auch das es länger als 3 Tage hält .

[Lennier]

Es zählt nicht die verbrauchte Zeit sondern die Aktion. Um 250 Kräuter zu finden brauchst du die entsprechende Aktionszahl.

Fällt bei Prozessen mit Massenprodukten halt etwas mehr auf, wenn das Werkzeug kaputt geht, als bei Prozessen mit Einzelaktionen. Es läuft zeitlich gesehen deutlich schneller ab, ja.

Ich beobacht es mal noch etwas weiter und werd dann schauen, wo ich was ändere.

[Tanistian_Kanea]

drop rate is WAY WAY to high. with this update it will be almost pointless to do anything but smith. and i have fairly new character and he cannot afford to buy so many new tools. for a starting crafter at the current break rate I can't pay for tools. end of story.

[pharse]

go look for a guild or a craftmaster. Alternative end of story.

[Tanistian_Kanea]

Degrade tools faster = worst idea every.
@pharse. before you open that big mouth shut it first and think about what your going to say. I have found a good smith who offers cheap tools and I still don't think I would be able to afford this continuous death of tools.
@developers: You developers always say you are here for the players and yet there is half this thread complaining that tools are degrading to fast and another quarter saying some other way to improve economy. the last few are you and just a few defending you probably because they now benefit from this horrible idea because they are smiths. everyone else just has to fork over more money to them. so why not do what you say you do and listen to the players. if you want to do something useful help improve the low earning trades like tailoring and glass work. not the one that already makes the most money.

[Tanistian_Kanea]

average, used scikle only gets me 90 actions. if i use 90 wool that means i'm down one scissors for balls of yarn. another 30 to turn to cloth. another 30 on a stir stick to die the cloth. another 60 on scissors to cut thread from entrails, meaning another pair of scissors gone to finish with another 30 actions just to make a small assortment of shirts and pants. i repeat worst idea ever.

[Ambrosine]

Is the point of Illarion to make it more fun or more real?

It's nice when both points can be accommodated but doesn't the former take precedence?

Everybody doesn't want to be a crafter and those that do aren't being helped by this bit of updating. It's a hinderance. And I'm not sure I see the gain to it for the majority of the playing community.


It's a bit unfair really.

[Achae Eanstray]

If you think that it goes to fast, write me about your tests. I need the name of your char, the tool with his quality/duability to the begin and how long you was able to use it.

I believe I already answered all in this thread except char.. and that is Achae Eanstray, skills: crafter.

In general you should rethink and forget the old situation. Toolbreak is a normal happen. Same like to need food. All people want an running economie and the possibilities to act like a crafter. So here is your chance. A whole new parket for crafters to support other ones.

How does this support any crafter but the ones who already earn copper.... that is Smiths?

NPC-Traders are also changed now. Their tools have a higher durability as before.

Higher durability then good-very good which is what was the durability of those three sickles bought and used for 600 sibinac?


Today i will work on npc-traders again, so that you can buy more tools, inspecial in Trolls Bane.

Being able to already buy 3 sickle and use in approximately three hour time, the ability to buy even more tools is a moot point.

This idea ONLY encourages already established crafters that can probably repair their own tools, or are Smiths. I see no advantage to other crafters at all.

If the game wants to discourage the making of crafter chars except for Smithing, then I would say it is working. Ultimately however, no matter what the goal is for economy, profession of chars, opportunities for RP... the game is about the PO enjoying being in game. I would say that a least a few from reading this thread no longer are enjoying the game.

[pharse]

@pharse. before you open that big mouth shut it first and think about what your going to say.

Same to you. So to broaden your horizon, here is the detailed version of my post:

Go find a guild to join, which supports you becoming a crafter or even look for a master to work for who trains you and gives you all what you need.

It is always harder for loners. Deal with it.


--

btw: the system is good, but tweaking is fine too. That's why you have to tell PO Lennier the outcome of your testing.

[Dariya]

NPC-Traders are also changed now. Their tools have a higher durability as before.

when was that quote?
this simply is not true, unfortunately

one of my chars bought a REALLY poor sickle from Gambi for 25c;
if I remember correctly, it had only one attribute: "alte Sichel"

I don't know exactly, how many actions were done, fact is that maybe after 2 hours ingame time (not just clicking and searching, but walking around, rping a bit and some lags due to server-reloading) the sickle was already rubbish ... with a char with quite high dex, quite low strength

so somehow, this system doesn't seem to work propperly
and the NPCs still sell crap

[Estralis Seborian]

One should note: The loss of tools while crafting is not a new idea. Actually, it was implemented since... two years or so? but didn't work due to a small denkfehler.

IMHO, everlasting tools are not an option for a game like Illarion. Those who remember the time when tools broke first might remember there was a chance of 1% each action for a total tool loss. In average, one was able to perform 100 actions with one tool. After some time, this was commonly accepted as the right order of magnitude. But is was regarded a problem that breakage resulted from random. This resulted in our devs implementing the whole quality system as we have it now.

The problem with instant-complaining about a new feature is that developers tend to ignore it due to a lack of reason. I am pretty sure our devs will listen to reports and suggestions how to adjust the wear rate. But do it with reason and give details instead of "turn off that crap" or "STFU"

btw, when a tool lasts longer, a crafter is willingly to pay more for it. If you suggest changes, try to find a balance between convenience and effect - if you go e.g. to the mine and need 10 pick axes to fill your bag, something is wrong. If your pick lasts 10000 hits, something is wrong, too.

[AlexRose]

@pharse. before you open that big mouth shut it first and think about what your going to say.

Same to you. So to broaden your horizon, here is the detailed version of my post:

Go find a guild to join, which supports you becoming a crafter or even look for a master to work for who trains you and gives you all what you need.

It is always harder for loners. Deal with it.

This is stupid even for your standards Pharse.

A. What guild?
B. Why would someone establish such a guild? A new crafter might try and establish one because he NEEDS help, but only new crafters will join. There is no incentive for a crafter to craft free goods for new crafters who may eventually become good enough to become competition. This is completely counter productive and noone will do it. Therefore, as the only people joining such a guild will be new crafters, if they don't have the ability to support themselves, how will being in a group help? They won't be able to craft for more than their share each so there still won't be enough tools.

I don't have a crafter so I don't really care, but honestly Pharse, that argument's ridiculous.

[pharse]

I don't have a crafter

Then shut up Alex as you have no idea what you are talking about. I do have a crafter and it works fine as I have described it.

Again: shut up.