Death is Serious Business
Moderator: Gamemasters
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Pellandria
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The Returner
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How about a penalization to the killer in terms of intelligence or perception, or simply make them not able to kill for a time depending on a skill average of skills that do not involve strength, agility or any other skills used in fighting.Pellandria wrote:This would be constantly abused by allready high skilled warrior to keep their "enemys" so far down that noone wants to play the game anymore...
Another idea is to maybe implement an allignment system where killers would lose allignment and thus have a skull or something similar over top of them showwing that they kill alot?
I don't know, but penalization on the killer too might be a good idea...
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Thomas Rothman
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We already have this, but instead of a skull, the string "Rothman" is added to the nameThe Returner wrote:Another idea is to maybe implement an allignment system where killers would lose allignment and thus have a skull or something similar over top of them showwing that they kill alot?
. Illarion is a roleplaying game, thus, we love to roleplay. This includes death and conflicts. Do not let Illarion turn into a player versus player game. If your character gets pwned, erm, clouded, it is not your defeat but the defeat of your character. It is a part of the story that is told by the game of Illarion and a good story needs winners AND losers. So, do not try to find ways to punish players more than necessary. The low attributes make most actions, in special fighting, close to impossible right after getting clouded, I think this is enough.-
Mr. Cromwell
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Lets be honest here. What you propose is counterproductive nonsense, Hadrian.
Estralis gets it. If you increase the punishments from the current levels (especially the permanent ones, loss of items and skills), then players will do whatever it takes (including logging, inviting help ooc, attacking without roleplay, superhero rp etc) in order to avoid such penalties. Thus, as the RP in general declines and gets crappier, as people start to fear for getting their characters knocked back to noob level. Those who already are the top dogs (and they aren't uber warriors, hint hint Pellandria) will absolutely, almost literally walk around raping people and frustrating the players behind the screen.
Of course you can say "Report them. Discuss"
Even excluding valid RP reasons for killing and intimidating people, this doesn't solve the underlying problem of players getting unhappy, rather just the symptoms. What you propose would endlessly frustrate and annoy players, making them unhappy -> less playing and players. Lets face it, this is a roleplaying game and conflicts, as well as people getting hurt are an important part of it. While death should be serious business for the characters, it should not be something dead serious.
The basic assumption should be that all players are able to roleplay clouding in a decent manner, or at the very least lay low for some days. Those who are incapable of such roleplaying are the ones who should be punished by gamemasters, instead of dishing out completely anal and draconian punishments to everyone. This is the worst idea for a long time (probably since the previous death-related discussion), to be honest.
Oh, and happy belated birthday.
Estralis gets it. If you increase the punishments from the current levels (especially the permanent ones, loss of items and skills), then players will do whatever it takes (including logging, inviting help ooc, attacking without roleplay, superhero rp etc) in order to avoid such penalties. Thus, as the RP in general declines and gets crappier, as people start to fear for getting their characters knocked back to noob level. Those who already are the top dogs (and they aren't uber warriors, hint hint Pellandria) will absolutely, almost literally walk around raping people and frustrating the players behind the screen.
Of course you can say "Report them. Discuss"
Even excluding valid RP reasons for killing and intimidating people, this doesn't solve the underlying problem of players getting unhappy, rather just the symptoms. What you propose would endlessly frustrate and annoy players, making them unhappy -> less playing and players. Lets face it, this is a roleplaying game and conflicts, as well as people getting hurt are an important part of it. While death should be serious business for the characters, it should not be something dead serious.
The basic assumption should be that all players are able to roleplay clouding in a decent manner, or at the very least lay low for some days. Those who are incapable of such roleplaying are the ones who should be punished by gamemasters, instead of dishing out completely anal and draconian punishments to everyone. This is the worst idea for a long time (probably since the previous death-related discussion), to be honest.
Oh, and happy belated birthday.
Last edited by Mr. Cromwell on Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Returner
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Heres an idea then, same system but one stays clouded for at least a full in game day?Mr. Cromwell wrote: The basic assumption should be that all players are able to roleplay clouding in a decent manner, or at the very least lay low for some days. Those who are incapable of such roleplaying are the ones who should be punished by gamemasters, instead of dishing out completely anal and draconian punishments to everyone. This is the worst idea for a long time, to be honest.
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Mr. Cromwell
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What for? There's nothing to gain but player frustration from that. Even changing the script to include that would be waste of time, if you ask me.The Returner wrote:Heres an idea then, same system but one stays clouded for at least a full in game day?Mr. Cromwell wrote: The basic assumption should be that all players are able to roleplay clouding in a decent manner, or at the very least lay low for some days. Those who are incapable of such roleplaying are the ones who should be punished by gamemasters, instead of dishing out completely anal and draconian punishments to everyone. This is the worst idea for a long time, to be honest.
If you really want to make the effects of death more severe, then simply increase the length of the attribute-penalty. At least people can roleplay and discuss then.
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The Returner
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The problem with death as a subject in general is kind of touchy.
No matter what you propose, it will be wrong. If you change the skill loss and penalty length, then people will try to avoid death in droves. If you make them a cloud longer, they will be frustrated. If you define killers from the rest of the players, it becomes a hack and slash game.
Like I said before, I like the death system as it is, but implementing better roleplaying safeguards might fix the current ingame problems.
No matter what you propose, it will be wrong. If you change the skill loss and penalty length, then people will try to avoid death in droves. If you make them a cloud longer, they will be frustrated. If you define killers from the rest of the players, it becomes a hack and slash game.
Like I said before, I like the death system as it is, but implementing better roleplaying safeguards might fix the current ingame problems.
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Juliana D'cheyne
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The main issues that keep cropping up every other thread can be possibly be adjusted to be included in newbie island.
The first time a new player sees the weapons master instead of a mummy arena, they would go to one looking like a bandit being prompted to "assume" this was an actual player in game. They would have to emote using #me before ever being allowed to fight.
(teaching the basics of the emote and roleplay before fighting another player)
During the fight, the teaching could purposefully 'ghost" the player, they would get a message at that time to "go to the cross" which can be shown close to the weapons master. The player would not be able to continue from the cross until they emote an injury, this can be prompted also.
(teaching the cross and function, also teaching roleplay and "reborn")
They would then walk back to the weapons master who would ask if they are "reborn" which would be another message they receive "you are now reborn" and after answering "yes" they would continue now with the mummy fight.
IMO the game is already too severe with the permanent skill loss. Skill loss is mixing ooc and ig causing hard feeling on the part of players NOT the characters. I havn't seen anyone RP this skill loss... is a char suppose to say "I feel much weaker now since I was ghosted and fear it won't go away"
... this skill loss is to punish the player, not the char. I would set up a permanent skill loss only after ghosted possibly *throws some numbers out at random* three times in a RL week. The decreased attribute or even extending the time and loss of equipment is more ig and char related. The skill loss simply causes flaming/revenge/hard feelings/too much caution or not even caring anymore since all the hard won skill done previously is gone.
The first time a new player sees the weapons master instead of a mummy arena, they would go to one looking like a bandit being prompted to "assume" this was an actual player in game. They would have to emote using #me before ever being allowed to fight.
(teaching the basics of the emote and roleplay before fighting another player)
During the fight, the teaching could purposefully 'ghost" the player, they would get a message at that time to "go to the cross" which can be shown close to the weapons master. The player would not be able to continue from the cross until they emote an injury, this can be prompted also.
(teaching the cross and function, also teaching roleplay and "reborn")
They would then walk back to the weapons master who would ask if they are "reborn" which would be another message they receive "you are now reborn" and after answering "yes" they would continue now with the mummy fight.
IMO the game is already too severe with the permanent skill loss. Skill loss is mixing ooc and ig causing hard feeling on the part of players NOT the characters. I havn't seen anyone RP this skill loss... is a char suppose to say "I feel much weaker now since I was ghosted and fear it won't go away"
... this skill loss is to punish the player, not the char. I would set up a permanent skill loss only after ghosted possibly *throws some numbers out at random* three times in a RL week. The decreased attribute or even extending the time and loss of equipment is more ig and char related. The skill loss simply causes flaming/revenge/hard feelings/too much caution or not even caring anymore since all the hard won skill done previously is gone.-
Fianna Heneghan
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I largely agree with Cromwell here.Mr. Cromwell wrote:Of course you can say "Report them. Discuss"
The basic assumption should be that all players are able to roleplay clouding in a decent manner, or at the very least lay low for some days. Those who are incapable of such roleplaying are the ones who should be punished by gamemasters, instead of dishing out completely anal and draconian punishments to everyone.
Who are these players that can't roleplay an injury? Seriously, if there is a problem with a handful of players, deal with it directly. If people see this happening ig and say nothing, I don't think making a thread proposing a sweeping change to the game system is going to fix anything. It's not the game that's broken.
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Gwendolyne Rothaide
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Borine wrote:Yup good ideaGro'bul wrote:Why don't we go the other way, and make death ONLY have a death sickness. This way, its an inconvenience to "die". Then its only annoying, not angering and causing irateness among people. Then its basically only "knocking out" instead of killing. Game = fun right?
And why don't we leave it as it is. You do not have to kill anyone but you can.
Making the death worser will increase the moaning of one half of the community.
Excluding the death will increase the moaning of the other half.
So we keep it as it is. Since I think its really fine. And the few who are not able to play that in a proper way, can be teached.
Nitram
Making the death worser will increase the moaning of one half of the community.
Excluding the death will increase the moaning of the other half.
So we keep it as it is. Since I think its really fine. And the few who are not able to play that in a proper way, can be teached.
Nitram
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Estralis Seborian
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The Returner
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QFT LockplsNitram wrote:And why don't we leave it as it is. You do not have to kill anyone but you can.
Making the death worser will increase the moaning of one half of the community.
Excluding the death will increase the moaning of the other half.
So we keep it as it is. Since I think its really fine. And the few who are not able to play that in a proper way, can be teached.
Nitram
