Meaning of Red Names

Olive · Post by **Olive** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:41 pm

can i get an amen?

#me signs

Arien Edhel · Post by **Arien Edhel** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:43 pm

If your name is red you are ready to attack - and you have to rp like that.

Amen, brother.

Ivar Kraftimarm · Post by **Ivar Kraftimarm** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:49 pm

really? i often carry my axe in the hand...

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:51 pm

it doesnt mean you're not aloud to carry your axe at hand. It just means now everyone knows you carry your axe at hand.

Arien Edhel · Post by **Arien Edhel** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:54 pm

Correct.
I meant 'real' weapons with "ready to attack".

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:11 pm

Okay, now here is the rule breaker. One of my characters carrys a warhammer which he normally drags behind him or fumbles with and always carries. He can't sheath it because he doesn't have anywhere to put it. So yes, he is carrying it in his hand. Since technical wise his name would constantly be red because it is in his hand, should I leave it in his hand, or put it in his belt when he is not ready to attack?

Edit: Another one of my characters has a staff. She really doesn't have anywhere to put it, though she occasionally puts it down. That is also constantly in her hand, should that be red too or put it in the belt and emote her walking with it in her hand until she too is ready to attack.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:17 pm

Why are you making this entire thing far more difficult then it needs to be?

Large weapons are usually backstrapped to begin with.

Secondly, your question is merely a judgement call on your part. Red means attack yellow doesn't.

If you were to walk into a building holding a gun with intention of firing it, would people still fear for there lives? The obvious answer is yes they would, it's no different.

If you want to passively RP your weapon your free to do so. If other characters see that weapon and therefore act hostility, it's no different then it was before when you RP'd dragging the weapon around, except now they can see it without your need to emote.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:17 pm

if your char has a weapon in hishands.... you PUT it in his hands.... you can RP how you are holding it anyway you want....

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:59 pm

I have beef with this because I don't like how it is being and will be abused. I thought that the color would be a way of telling what a person is at a distance. If they are carrying, not holding even if it is technically in the little paper dolls hand, a melee weapon, you could see the sheath, or if they have a bow over their shoulder you can tell from a distance, blue, mage/warlock (wand overriding staff), and it would include both the hand and the belt. However after not playing for 2 weeks and no one telling me ooc, or no definate agreement on the boards that this would be in the hand and would be consitered ready for attack, I get yelled at ooc ig about holding it in my hand. But I rp it sheathed, always have unless I emote it is unsheathed, and suddenly that changed after 2 weeks and one update. Now it is an attack and I don't think there was even a firm post stating, in general, about it being consitered an attack until I complained at PO Joro and got him pissed over the fact I didn't like this new rule. I told him that not everyone is gonna follow this because it was not agreed upon across the board. Honestly, why can't we take away the whole "in your hand's thing and make it carrying instead. That to me make sence and allows role play.

Also for the look at function in general. That is limiting roleplay. Again you are using the game server to tell you what you see and in the future i worry that people will ignore role play. You click on someone and see them wearing salk, okay, but what if they are roleplaying "custom" armor. Or they wear a tabard with a coat of arms over their armor, you don't see that, and even if it is emoted, it doesn't mean people will pay attention to it because they will only care what the game server tells them to see. People want to be creative and discribe their character, not be told what their character looks like. As I said earlier, the game shows all humans with brown hair, do my human characters suddenly have brown hair now? We've never rped it that way.

On the other hand, being able to examine the belt is a good idea. Theives always complain that people don't truthfully say what they have. Now they can avoid poor rp, which could possibly come anyway from being told what you look like. Then again, people may start hiding their items in their bag once they realize that theives can see into their belt.

End beef... do I get steak now?

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:43 pm

Your argumentation is lacking any understandable base.

1. Illarion is a Roleplaying Game, a mix of technical features and roleplay. Roleplay what your char has/owns but the engine can't handle.

In the past normal players weren't able to get a clothin with a coat of arms on it, just roleplay it. Now emrboideries are available, so do not roleplay having a super special emblem if your char doesn't really own something like that.

Furthermore do not roleplay having some kind of "dragon armour". There IS no dragon armour IG. Though you could roleplay a salkamaerian armour with the sign of a dragon on it.

2. If someone is able to fight with a heavy warhammer, there should be no problem to carry it on the back --> technically on the "belt"

3. You suppose that everyone will ignore your emotes. Generalisation. Nothing more to say.

4. Technically a char is ready to attack with a weapon if the weapon is in the hand slots. Now the engine is able to show it. Deal with it. If you want to roleplay your char having a weapon in hands but not ready to attack, you're free to do it, but then your char must not hold the weapon in hands.

/ oh and before someone tries something like "But there is no feature to set a char blind? But I want to roleplay it!", common sense people, common sense

Vern Kron · Post by **Vern Kron** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:03 pm

Pharse, that sounds rather forceful and harsh.
The dragon armor refered to, and even the super special embrodiery is something the character made himself. It isn't -made- of dragons as far as I recall, but it has a dragon-like shape to it. Thus, it is customized that he made. Unfortunately armor breaks so quickly that embroderies would just be rediculous to pay for constantly, yes?
The character and PO spent time to make it, so shouldn't that be respected?

HolyKnight · Post by **HolyKnight** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

I have beef with this because I don't like how it is being and will be abused.

Sorry to say but the people that are abusing the system are the ones that don't sheath their weapons, properly.

However after not playing for 2 weeks and no one telling me ooc, or no definate agreement on the boards that this would be in the hand and would be consitered ready for attack, I get yelled at ooc ig about holding it in my hand.

I hope you are not talking about Eli yelling at you ooc. That is a load of rubbish. I calmly in a lighthearted tone told you why you should sheath your swords ig. All I got in return was screw that new rule.

that is not a very good attitude to have when everyone else does so willingly.

And as for it being put on the boards and an overall agreement being made. Dan how long have you been playing this game? You know very well that the GMs and Devs don't need our permission/agreement to do ANYTHING. The simple fact of the matter is people were abusing the fighting system (crtl+click) far more before this look function and the players had NO real warning what was coming. Now at least as a PO when a person lit up with red that you don't know comes running at you it could mean trouble.

Also for the look at function in general. That is limiting roleplay. Again you are using the game server to tell you what you see and in the future i worry that people will ignore role play. You click on someone and see them wearing salk, okay, but what if they are roleplaying "custom" armor. Or they wear a tabard with a coat of arms over their armor, you don't see that, and even if it is emoted, it doesn't mean people will pay attention to it because they will only care what the game server tells them to see. People want to be creative and discribe their character, not be told what their character looks like. As I said earlier, the game shows all humans with brown hair, do my human characters suddenly have brown hair now? We've never rped it that way.

Dan people that ignore rp and break game rules, all these people you are worried about, wont last on illa anyway. First the ones that dont care about rp or ignore rp either get banned or leave because they are not welcome. People that take advantage of the system will ALWAYS be out there. When they break the rules of the game !gm. Furthermore, I dont know where you see all these terrible rpers that just attack you for no reason.... I have been ig for over a year and a half now ... and NO ONE has ever attacked me that is a typical member to this game. Only n00bs do that sort of thing.

Because I DO respect rp more then the technical issues at hand my character did not press the matter further when you declined my request to sheath your weapons

. Just one question...

I told him that not everyone is gonna follow this because it was not agreed upon across the board.

Who are these people? I see two.... Julius and you.

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:06 pm

A great feature which need to explained i believe. An article in Illapedia could be helpfull. I also was surprised and confused about all the colors. I thought it is a kind of identification instead of the ID, in addition to the classification (man, woman etc.). Like in the old client the colored bars below of every char...

That it is about wearing weapons - this information i also got ingame, when a char told to my "do you really need to have your sword in your hand the whole day?".

It's amusing to get such facts with ingame situations and wrong behavoir of the own char.... But in this way i explore Illarion myself since 7 years now.

I like this feature. The whole LookAtChar is the best new implemented idea in Illarion. It is something we wait since years. Very helpfull. Next far step in development would be real different look of our chars in depance of their equipment.

I do not know why serval persons are against it here. I am surprised about their identities.

Keep following in mind. The developers try to create a more or less realistic complex game to roleplay. To use the engine in right way is part of roleplay.

If you play a miner you also would use the engine to get ores. Yo do not type "#me got 2 ores by mining". You get your ores by shift+click on pickaxe in direction of a right rock.

To roleplay via writing an own fictive reality is fine - as long as it happens inside the engine based reality and their rules. If you go too far and create more than the engine can support you could risk to fall deep, when your roleplay stay against changes of the engine.

The engine is the basement of the common roleplay. It improves fair roleplay by giving important informations to all in same way. Handle with it or make your roleplay in a chat. Illarion is not a chat. It is a graphical game with a given complex environment.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Apropos: Same with fights. I do not know when this trend came up that serval sub-groups of this community began to fight only during typing it on the keyboard like to chat. Noone should be threaten because he uses the given engine. That's the sense of the engine - To use it.

Phib · Post by **Phib** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:24 pm

blah blah blah... im sorry i love this game like you all but you people have no life to argue about pointless minute stuff like this.... once again this is the reason why i left for a while in the first place.... they made an update and everyone bitches... so the next update "CERTAIN" people will whine and cry.. grow up!!!!! just like this game is growing, in RL everything changes... change is weird but there is nothing you can do about it, and its nessecary, but, deal with it.. my own two cents

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:34 pm

great, another one-day-account. But your advice "grow up" is one of the best in this topic.

LifeWonder · Post by **LifeWonder** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:35 pm

Phib wrote:blah blah blah... im sorry i love this game like you all but you people have no life to argue about pointless minute stuff like this.... once again this is the reason why i left for a while in the first place.... they made an update and everyone bitches... so the next update "CERTAIN" people will whine and cry.. grow up!!!!! just like this game is growing, in RL everything changes... change is weird but there is nothing you can do about it, and its nessecary, but, deal with it.. my own two cents

Thank you for this valuable and wise piece of commentary.

Vern Kron · Post by **Vern Kron** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:40 pm

pharse wrote:great, another one-day-account. But your advice "grow up" is one of the best in this topic.

His was made in march, actually. And this discussion is neccasary so that answers will be given instead of arguements ig, right?

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:43 pm

damn wine

well, but there is a comment about the name colour:
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 734#522734

"drawn melee weapon" sounds like ready to attack.

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:59 pm

I think not many read the Development Progress thread...

Kaila Galathil Travinus · Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:56 am

If you play a miner you also would use the engine to get ores. Yo do not type "#me got 2 ores by mining". You get your ores by shift+click on pickaxe in direction of a right rock.

Best thing said yet, though being one usually for LESS game mechanics I would not have objected to the #me either (well, that and the "mighty spoon"

)

To those NOT fond of the update: I would suggest two things, make proposals to improve it, and/or learn to deal with it.

To the Dev's: IMO this is the best update EVER! Thank you very much!

RP wise: I had a char (now dead) that RP'd a pink dress under her armor. this was not possible ig at all, but I still RP'd it...she also had special carving on her armor. IMO, this can still be freely RP'd and most PO's will see that this is the case. The ones that didn't ... was no biggie to me. As far as the red or not above the char, IMO that is ooc information which may serve to ONLY make me look at the char more closely. Then when looking, I MAY back away seeing a weapon in hand (on the look). Kaila knowing Dan well when saw him with a weapon ig yesterday wasn't concerned for her safety, was only wondering a little about Joro's when both were talking

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:10 am

HolyKnight wrote:
I told him that not everyone is gonna follow this because it was not agreed upon across the board.
Who are these people? I see two.... Julius and you.

Just Julius, I decided to play along with the new, unexplained until now, and rather unneeded rule. However I knew as soon as it came up that he would be the person to disagree so he could abuse the system and get a jump on fighting. Not that that has happened... yet...

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:46 am

I've always followed the system to a degree. The fact that having your blades in your hands for other purposes, half sheathed, or any other reason that there unsheathed in town that I put in my #me should still be respected. That's all I was complaining about.

I'm with you to a degree, Mister Marescot.

Konrad Knox · Post by **Konrad Knox** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:36 am

So how come i dont see or hear anyone picking on mages whose names are blue, means they're carrying their wand, an equivalent of a gun, in their hand. Oh yeah, because they can fry your butt, isn't it?

LifeWonder · Post by **LifeWonder** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:40 am

Konrad Knox wrote:So how come i dont see or hear anyone picking on mages whose names are blue, means they're carrying their wand, an equivalent of a gun, in their hand. Oh yeah, because they can fry your butt, isn't it?

Why do some people love acting as the storm after the sunny time?

But to answer your question; -edited out by myself cuz it wasn't a very nice thing to say-, mages don't have anywhere to put their wand.

Kaila Galathil Travinus · Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:26 am

Most mages can do all but the high end spells without their wands, the wands improve their chances, but aren't necessary.

Post by **Nitram** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:36 am

The problem is, that some items are declared as weapons, that shouldn't be weapons.

Such as some tools (needles, scissors, shovels, hammers, etc. )
Thats the reason why you can use that tools in fight.

They need to be removed from the weapons list. The next problem is that only items that are weapons can be two handed. That are details. But it looks strange if there is one who runs around with 2 scythes in his hands

Sooner or later this will be fixed. Until only REAL weapons are shown as red.

Nitram

LifeWonder · Post by **LifeWonder** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:47 am

The fact you can attack with ANYTHING is pretty awesome to be honest.

Post by **Nitram** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:55 am

Everything you can attack with, but fists is marked in some way. Thats the current problem i guess.

LifeWonder · Post by **LifeWonder** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:06 am

I know.

You made it sound like you were going to remove this "feature".

Post by **Nitram** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:36 am

I would like to see that only real weapons are marked as red. And not such Tools and stuff.

And that would got along with taking that tools out of the weapons list. Thats not really a nice solution. So we are still thinking how to solve this in a better way.