Library Research Skill

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:03 pm

Julius wrote:
Pellandria wrote:
Julius wrote: Learning how to parry a blow from a sword, or slash a man through a book is impossible even if your going for 1 % realism. You still need to build the brawn, the ability to wield the blade, the familiarity and all the other things that go along with me a master swordsman.
Indeed even today doctors get in vast amounts of human testsubjects to slice them up and find out what and what not should be done...reading books to gain knowledge..geez thats so yesterday d'uh.

Ahh and don't forget all those mechanics and crafters and constructionworker and almost every other possible thing on earth, all done with never looking once into a book and never learning anythign someone allready did before you and found a better way than you ever will.
Probing someone's chest is a lot different then a weak ass man picking up a book, coming out a day later and beating a char that has spent months training. Months training, building muscle, familiarity with the blade and other things that this guy has learned from a book in one day? Nah.

I don't believe they ever said it'd make you any stronger. They are merely saying that by studying about fighting through a book, one can learn tactics and strategies that can help someone stay alive a bit longer, not that they'd magically become stronger or more dexterous with a weapon.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:52 pm

Okay..

Getting a "slashing" swirlie from a book doesn't make you magically stronger?

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:54 pm

No, I don't believe skill ups affect attributes at all.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:03 am

He means more powerful, not increase in strength att...

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:08 am

I have already thought about some books increasing a certain skill when reading. It might be done in the future. Of course, it will have limitations such that a book cannot increase skill above a certain level.

@Julius: Through reading, one learns the basics of something, or good tips and hints, common mistakes and so on...therefore, knowing these will make the person a little better (or to learn quicker?), and the only way to represent this in the game is to increase a skill. Don't worry, no book is gonna give you 80 or 100 skill.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:11 am

I already noted that that would be best, Jorokar. Up to level 10 or 15 in each skill and then going to train on actual npcs.

If you scroll up, I think you'll see that my idea was batted down.

Deinarious · Post by **Deinarious** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:23 am

Athian wrote:Why not place goodies into books? Make the reaserach skill like fishing. reading the right book with the right amount of skill might land someone an old page or parchement with a map written on it for example. or it might lead to a secret location that can only be found by having the said item (page, map, instructions etc) Items that are found in books can be found mulitple times. but you need to carry ink and parchement to copy down the knowledge when you do. That sucess in copying information down and creating said map or secret information could also be based on library research.

I like this idea too.

HolyKnight · Post by **HolyKnight** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:43 am

/signed

I told PO Kaila about that one day soon after the maps came out from fishing. Hehe we used to read in the library before we became mages. I have always liked that idea of finding a little treasure while reading some ancient text. This could really be beneficial I think.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:21 am

Well that wouldn't be that hard to program, however I am POSITIVE it will be abused.

I can just tell people will just go to the library, take out 6X10^23 books and keep shift clicking them until they get a map.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:07 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:Well that wouldn't be that hard to program, however I am POSITIVE it will be abused.

I can just tell people will just go to the library, take out 6X10^23 books and keep shift clicking them until they get a map.

Oh yeah, cos noone does that with fishing.

Ambrosine · Post by **Ambrosine** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:10 pm

I like the idea of skill swirlies. I don't think that it would be a lot of skill... just a bit.

And even then you could make some skill-ups only work on people with different levels of skill... Like, a Magic for Beginners book would give a boost to a magic skill for someone who's skill was low, but not someone who was already pretty familiar with that skill, whereas an Advanced Tactics book would give a boost to someone who already has a good bit of skill.

That way people would have to train between boosts, but it would also be better than simply PG all the time.... It would be a bit difficult to balance, but not impossible...

Herbs for Dummies
Tailoring Patterns for Any Size
The Art of Battle by Chaing Wa Fu

.... Okay... I thought it was cute...

^_^

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:14 pm

Ambrosine wrote:The Art of Battle by Chaing Wa Fu

I'm sorry, but that name is awful for illarion. Why does a martial arts expert have to have a Chinese name? What a stereotype.

Ambrosine · Post by **Ambrosine** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:23 pm

Sorry I was making fun of The Art of War.... But if you're going to get technical I'd think the only appropriate one for Illarion would be "Tailoring Patterns for Any Size"...
*shrugs*

I was just having fun... But what about the idea in and of itself?

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:39 pm

Ambrosine wrote:And even then you could make some skill-ups only work on people with different levels of skill... Like, a Magic for Beginners book would give a boost to a magic skill for someone who's skill was low, but not someone who was already pretty familiar with that skill, whereas an Advanced Tactics book would give a boost to someone who already has a good bit of skill.

Again.

I am a n00b fighter. I decide to PG library research. It takes me 5 minutes, and I get a special swirly in fighting.

I am a n00b fighter. I decide to PG fighting. it takes me 5 minutes and I gain much more than what I would have gotten up there.

Ambrosine · Post by **Ambrosine** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:17 pm

People act as if fighting were the only skill on Gobiath. Jeeze.
How bout thinking outside your hilt?

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:30 pm

How about two kinds of books, we got the beginner books, which can be read almost isntantly and gain like...maxium 15 %, i think for crafting this would be pretty nice, reduces this constant low item crap aswell and later onne we got "higher" books, which reduce the time I need for learning for the higher Skill Crafting/figthing whatever.

This way people who dislike to skill, but are more or less forced to do so because you need a certaint degree of skill to atleast "life" in the game, can skill easier and powergamer well..who cares if they gain that skill in two or in one day, its not like its stops their doing.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:36 pm

Ambrosine wrote:People act as if fighting were the only skill on Gobiath. Jeeze.
How bout thinking outside your hilt?

I don't actually have a fighter

I just use it as a good example.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:17 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:Well that wouldn't be that hard to program, however I am POSITIVE it will be abused.

I can just tell people will just go to the library, take out 6X10^23 books and keep shift clicking them until they get a map.

Hardly, you don't pull up a map every twenty times you fish so what makes you think finding a secret in a book can't be randomized in just the same manner? further more just finding it won't mean you copy it down perfectly every time, since the copying of maps is also based in the skill.

Furthermore i'm not speaking of only treasure maps, it leaves the possibilty for mini duegons with imrpessive enemies and great treaures. Think of a place like the well in Trollsbane. In order to get underground you need rope to climb down. So instead of rope we have a spot that you can only get too it when you your written piece of 'secret knowledge.'

Lastly i don't like the idea of gaining other skill through library reasearch. It doesn't do anything to make the skill particularly useful or interesting. With such a system of skilling Library reasearch still doesn't do anything special (or at all) that makes it worth using over other, faster methods.

Ambrosine · Post by **Ambrosine** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:39 pm

Well, beginner books with a skill boost would still be nice for newbies or newly made chars.

For newly made chars you can get the skill boost and for newbies they could get both a skill boost and basic information about a skill/craft/whatever.

Actually, newbie books with skill boosts might be a good idea for Noobia/Newbie Island/Tutorial Island/What-Did-We-Name-That-Place-Again? .

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:52 am

Athian wrote: Lastly i don't like the idea of gaining other skill through library reasearch. It doesn't do anything to make the skill particularly useful or interesting. With such a system of skilling Library reasearch still doesn't do anything special (or at all) that makes it worth using over other, faster methods.

I would rather read some books instead of casting 100 more fireballs to get a swirly or smithing thousands of more armors and what not, reducing time to spend on training and using this time to make more usefull things is in my opinion rather usefull and it automaticlly teaches people more about illarion, atleast if they look at the books and not just flip away the pages.

Achae Eanstray · Post by **Achae Eanstray** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:57 pm

I like the skilling idea also since I know of at least two players quit play due to the slow skill gain before anything productive can be made and sold (this was before the wiki also, which may have helped with more information).

I have always liked that idea of finding a little treasure while reading some ancient text

That would have been a LOT of fun! Possibly even have a quest from one. A book that mentions the other quests like Irundar quest and lets you know where to go to start it would have been nice.

automaticlly teaches people more about illarion

I actually did a lot of my learning about past history of the game through the library books at the time.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:29 pm

Achae Eanstray wrote:
I have always liked that idea of finding a little treasure while reading some ancient text
That would have been a LOT of fun! Possibly even have a quest from one. A book that mentions the other quests like Irundar quest and lets you know where to go to start it would have been nice.

The 'map from books' thing is possible and a very good idea.

The "Quest from book" is a bit harder to get around to, but would certainly be interesting.

Olive · Post by **Olive** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:00 am

i woul support maps being discovered in books on two conditions
1) you are not at your skill cap. as your eyes would be too tire dto keep searchign and your brain would be too fatigued to read between the lines.

2) i actually uhm..forgot the second one..shit... oh well. must be alzheimers settignin

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:02 am

Olive wrote:i woul support maps being discovered in books on two conditions
1) you are not at your skill cap. as your eyes would be too tire dto keep searchign and your brain would be too fatigued to read between the lines.

I had suggested that for fishing to be honest, so people don't over-fish.

Something like that wouldn't be hard to make either, just adding a single 'or' condition.

Tanistian_Kanea · Post by **Tanistian_Kanea** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:18 am

i think books should help new characters. especially when you rp a 3000 year old elf. i mean it is really anoying when you want to play a 3000 year old elf and you can't do anything (doesn't make sense). if you could read to help one skill then that would help get characters started. example a carpenter would read blueprints and a cook would read recipes. but once you got some levels in carpentry or cooking or the appropriate skill then you can't learn in another area(this just to prevent pging.) i agree right now books are pretty useless and should be an integrated part.

another idea would be to have books you can copy that help with things. for example if you have a blue print infront of you, you would have a better chance to make whatever it is because you have directions. or if your a cook and you have a recipe. like how many people build a house without plans, or cook complex foods without a recipe, not many.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:15 am

Again, that is a very good idea.

But it still doesn't justify the 'library research skill'.

I would want books to be:

A) Something which a character reads when he's bored
B) An IC help for characters who want to start something.

So yes, I would agree that you can get the first few points of a craft skill from reading books (or from a quest NPC, need to see if pharse is doing that already). But that still doesn't justify PGing a skill.

Aldan Vian · Post by **Aldan Vian** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:34 am

I agree but I thingk you should learn a small amount from reading.