Workshop-Material

[Estralis Seborian]

Do:

...act as idol
...be friendly
...welcome the newbies and offer your help
...answer questions
...roleplay if possible
...use emotes
...introduce your character
...seperate OOC from IC
...show the players what to do on the island
...introduce the newbie to the background story of your character
...tell them some words about the world. Mention things instead of explaining them
...say "Entschuldige, ich spreche kein deutsch." if you encounter a german player and don't understand a word
...!gm if you encounter anything you cannot handle
...log your chat and present it to GMs in case you are not sure how to handle situations

Don't:

...chase or nerve players who refuse your help or don't respond
...tell players what to do but show them what you do as an example instead
...use OOC from the beginning
...spam the newbies with the background story of Illarion
...mock players for names, l33t speak, OOC, violating the rules, ...
...enforce the rules. Never
...cause any harm to characters in any way
...act like a police force or a bouncer. Or even a GM
...tell people this is not a game for them. Never
...suggest players to log out (e.g. for reading) or change their name
...get caught in long discussions or unnecessary debates OOC
...favor friends of yours in any way
...pretend to be anything you are not
...make fun of stupid players
...teach the players stuff that is not vital unless you are asked to
...force the player to adapt your style of playing

Rule of thumb: The more OOC the newbie uses, the less OOC you should use.

---

Machen:

...verhalte dich wie ein Vorbild
...sei freundlich
...begrüße die Newbies und biete deine Hilfe an
...beantworte Fragen
...bleib in deiner Rolle soweit wie möglich
...benutze Emotes
...stelle deinen Charakter vor
...trenne IC von OOC
...zeige dem Spieler, was man alles auf der Insel machen kann
...führe den Newbie in den Hintergrund deines Charakters ein
...erzähl ein paar Worte über die Welt. Nenne Dinge anstatt sie lang und breit zu erklären
...sag "Sorry, I don't speak english." wenn du unfähig bist, dich in Englisch zu verständigen
...!gm wenn du eine Situation vorfindest, mit der du nicht klar kommst
...logge deinen Chat und zeig ihn einem GM, falls du unsicher bist, wie man eine Situation bewältigt

Lassen:

...verfolge oder nerfe Spieler die deine Hilfe ablehnen oder nicht antworten, nicht
...erzähle den Spielern nicht, was sie tun sollen, zeige es ihnen exemplarisch
...benutze kein OOC von Anfang an
...spamme den Newbie nicht mit der Hintergrundgeschichte von Illarion zu
...belästige den Spieler nicht mit Namensregeln, l33t-Sprache, OOC, Regelbrüchen,...
...setze die Regeln nicht durch. Niemals
...füge dem Charakter keinen Schaden zu
...führe dich nicht wie ein Polizist oder Türsteher auf. Oder gar wie ein GM
...sag dem Spieler nicht, dass dies nicht das richtige Spiel für ihn ist. Niemals
...empfehle dem Spieler nicht, auszuloggen (z.B. um etwas durchzulesen) oder um seinen Namen zu ändern
...verliere dich nicht in unnötigen Diskussionen oder Debatten OOC
...bevorzuge deine Freunde in keiner Weise
...tu' nicht so, als wenn du etwas wärest, was du nicht bist
...verarsche dumme Spieler nicht
...bring dem Spieler nichts bei, was unwichtig ist, es sei denn, er bittet darum
...zwinge den Spieler nicht, deinen Stil anzunehmen

Merkregel: Je mehr OOC der Newbie benutzt, desto weniger solltest du verwenden.

[Lance Thunnigan]

Do:

...act as idol
...be friendly
...welcome the newbies and offer your help
...answer questions
...roleplay if possible
...use emotes
...introduce your character
...seperate OOC from IC
...show the players what to do on the island
...introduce the newbie to the background story of your character
...tell them some words about the world. Mention things instead of explaining them
...say "Entschuldige, ich spreche kein deutsch." if you encounter a german player and don't understand a word
...!gm if you encounter anything you cannot handle
...log your chat and present it to GMs in case you are not sure how to handle situations

Don't:

...chase or nerve players who refuse your help or don't respond
...tell players what to do but show them what you do as an example instead
...use OOC from the beginning
...spam the newbies with the background story of Illarion
...mock players for names, l33t speak, OOC, violating the rules, ...
...enforce the rules. Never
...cause any harm to characters in any way
...act like a police force or a bouncer. Or even a GM
...tell people this is not a game for them. Never
...suggest players to log out (e.g. for reading) or change their name
...get caught in long discussions or unnecessary debates OOC
...favor friends of yours in any way
...pretend to be anything you are not
...make fun of stupid players
...teach the players stuff that is not vital unless you are asked to
...force the player to adapt your style of playing

Rule of thumb: The more OOC the newbie uses, the less OOC you should use.

---

Machen:

...verhalte dich wie ein Vorbild
...sei freundlich
...begrüße die Newbies und biete deine Hilfe an
...beantworte Fragen
...bleib in deiner Rolle soweit wie möglich
...benutze Emotes
...stelle deinen Charakter vor
...trenne IC von OOC
...zeige dem Spieler, was man alles auf der Insel machen kann
...führe den Newbie in den Hintergrund deines Charakters ein
...erzähl ein paar Worte über die Welt. Nenne Dinge anstatt sie lang und breit zu erklären
...sag "Sorry, I don't speak english." wenn du unfähig bist, dich in Englisch zu verständigen
...!gm wenn du eine Situation vorfindest, mit der du nicht klar kommst
...logge deinen Chat und zeig ihn einem GM, falls du unsicher bist, wie man eine Situation bewältigt

Lassen:

...verfolge oder nerfe Spieler die deine Hilfe ablehnen oder nicht antworten, nicht
...erzähle den Spielern nicht, was sie tun sollen, zeige es ihnen exemplarisch
...benutze kein OOC von Anfang an
...spamme den Newbie nicht mit der Hintergrundgeschichte von Illarion zu
...belästige den Spieler nicht mit Namensregeln, l33t-Sprache, OOC, Regelbrüchen,...
...setze die Regeln nicht durch. Niemals
...füge dem Charakter keinen Schaden zu
...führe dich nicht wie ein Polizist oder Türsteher auf. Oder gar wie ein GM
...sag dem Spieler nicht, dass dies nicht das richtige Spiel für ihn ist. Niemals
...empfehle dem Spieler nicht, auszuloggen (z.B. um etwas durchzulesen) oder um seinen Namen zu ändern
...verliere dich nicht in unnötigen Diskussionen oder Debatten OOC
...bevorzuge deine Freunde in keiner Weise
...tu' nicht so, als wenn du etwas wärest, was du nicht bist
...verarsche dumme Spieler nicht
...bring dem Spieler nichts bei, was unwichtig ist, es sei denn, er bittet darum
...zwinge den Spieler nicht, deinen Stil anzunehmen

Merkregel: Je mehr OOC der Newbie benutzt, desto weniger solltest du verwenden.

...favor friends of yours in any way

...Riiiiight. I gooootcha.

[Konrad Knox]

First off, what the heck is this thread about and what's the premise behind it? A joke? A call to action? Are people not doing enough newibe guidance?

Don't:
...cause any harm to characters in any way

Then why is there PvP system?

...suggest players to log out (e.g. for reading) or change their name

What if their name is Gandalf or Superman?

...pretend to be anything you are not

Roleplaying???

Rule of thumb: The more OOC the newbie uses, the less OOC you should use.

This is very difficult to do without breaking one of your suggested guidelines. If you minimize OOC and stay in character, half the time noobs think you are mocking them when you're trying to explain things in character.

Also, if someone has a grumpy or malevolent character, should they really bend their character concept to help people because they are new?
I somehow don't see Dain Laiden teaching newbies how to sheer sheep.

[Nitram]

First off, what the heck is this thread about and what's the premise behind it? A joke? A call to action? Are people not doing enough newibe guidance?

Exactly because of these answers like you wrote one.

Don't:
...cause any harm to characters in any way

Then why is there PvP system?

This is all about Newbies and the PvP system shouldn't be used against a newbie to kill the character. Because pretty often Newbies are that weak that they can't cause real trouble. But a dead newbie in general doesn't stay in the game for much longer.

...suggest players to log out (e.g. for reading) or change their name

What if their name is Gandalf or Superman?

Then you will be able to suffer this name a few minutes. It doesn't hurt that much and if you tell a newbie to get out and change whatever he doesn't log back in.
You can call a GM to handle this but you shouldn't tell them to get out and get any better name.

...pretend to be anything you are not

Roleplaying???

There were a few in the past to pretended to be Gamemasters and were not. Something like this is meant I think.

Rule of thumb: The more OOC the newbie uses, the less OOC you should use.

This is very difficult to do without breaking one of your suggested guidelines. If you minimize OOC and stay in character, half the time noobs think you are mocking them when you're trying to explain things in character.

That depends on how you do this and what you explain IG and what OOC. The controlls of the client and stuff should be explained OOC. There is just no way around this. But beyond this basics everything can be explained IG without any real problems.

Also, if someone has a grumpy or malevolent character, should they really bend their character concept to help people because they are new?
I somehow don't see Dain Laiden teaching newbies how to sheer sheep.

But he can tell the newbie were he find sheeps, how to use scissors in general and that the newbie has to use the scissors with the sheep.

Nitram

[Estralis Seborian]

Sorry, I should have written a small explaination for those who didn't attend the workshop what this is all about. These guidelines go a bit beyond the obvious - Nitram is right in all his points (what a surprise!).

Quantity and quality of newbie guidance isn't sufficient but there many players who are motivated to help. That is why the Illarion staff hosts workshops on this topic, see latest news.

Two things need elaboration: First, it is not the position of the Illarion staff that one may cloud newbies, see the rules. You have a 101% chance that those newbies won't come back. When a newbie acts aggressively, you may, of course, act according to your character's roleplay, but refrain from just killing that newbie.

The rule of thumb is ment like this: A newbie who has very to little knowledge of proper roleplay but shows some motivation to do so, needs guidance in this, not how to shift click stuff and store prewritten text. As Nitram stated, some things can only be explained OOC, but as soon as this is done, please switch back to IC, making clear that there is a difference. Also, it is always a good idea not to explain things in all detail but to "show" them - act as idol. Show the newbies what is right, telling them what they do wrong helps little. Example:

n00b: lol
Bad answer: ((OMG u must not use lol or gms gonna ban u!11))
Better answer: #me joins the laughter and gestures the human to follow him to the tavern from where merry voices can be heard
#w ((You can emote by typing e.g. #me laughs out loud))

[Mary O'Hannon]

Well... I got some situations with several newbies the last weeks...
The problem wasn't that I didn't know how to explain or show something... But the mainproblem was most of time, well, a situation like this:

Newbie: hi! where can I find monsters to kill?
me looks up to the man and tilts her head...
me: Well... oh... let me guess... you are just arrived here, right?
Newbie: Yeah, I just started the game
me: well then... let me be the first to welcome you on this isle. But before you go out for hunting... Do you first want to join me and take a seat, so that I can tell you a few things, that might be good to know about this place?
me: ((You know the basics of controll?))
Newbie: yes. I know how to attack
me nods slowly
me: Well... that might be usefull to defend yourself. But tell me, why do you want to go out and hunt monsters? What's your profession?
Newbie: I'm a great fighter. And I want to kill monsters to become the best and strongest of all!
me sighs lightly
me: And is there nothing else you want to do? You know... like becomming a tailor, carpenter, smith or something like that someday?
Newbie: What the f**k are you talking about? You're annoying me! I want to kill monsters now!
me:(( well ok... then let me try to explain it this way: This game isn't about killing monsters and become the best in the first place. It's a roleplaying game and that means you play your character like a role in a movie or a play, just like an actor.))
Newnie: lol
me: ((first of all, let me tell you about the different modi of speaking and how to make emotes to express what you are doing, ok? You may need it for roleplaying))
Newbie: No... that doesn't interest me! I want to kill monsters now!

Newbie walks away and doesn't listen anymore....
And that was always the point where I called for GM help, because how to help someone who doesn't even want to be helped? And, what it makes more difficult at all... I'm not that fast at typing... and I guess I'm not the only one...

[Korm Kormsen]

Newbie: No... that doesn't interest me! I want to kill monsters now!

that is the moment, where one wants to say: "I'm a monster! come and kill me!"

[Estralis Seborian]

We'll host another workshop in english soon. I hope this will help. For now, I could write how you could have done better in this kind of situation, but I want to stress that we lose the majority of newbies within the very first ten minutes. So, the most important mission is to keep the players in the game, not to discourage them in any way even though you might think they do not fit in.

[Eranduin Carras]

I think you can warn and tell a newbie in such a situation. But one like this, who don´t want to hear: Maybe showing him the monsters will teach him!
But i don´t know, how to deal with this situation in the right way, but i try to help every newbie, but there will be always some ignorant people.

[AlexRose]

"Go south into the woods and keep walking until you're in the south west most end of the woods, there's some monsters there".



Just tell him where the pigs are...

[Tinya]

Will this be in place of the Island, or to help when the Island is set up, and is there a rough date for it?

[Fianna Heneghan]

Don't:
...tell people this is not a game for them. Never

I can remember one occasion saying something like this to a new player who beligerantly refused to roleplay saying it was stupid and no one was watching him anyway. As much as I tried to explain and demonstrate he kept saying it was stupid.

I really try to encourage people. I'm not sure 'never' is realistic here. I want new players to have fun and stick around. I spend a lot of time showing new players around that I never see again. If someone is strongly opposed to a roleplay environment, maybe the game is not for them.

[Konrad Knox]

okay, now i understand what this thread is - i did not realize from context that it is about noobs. So i sounded kind of confused and retarded, i thought it was a new overall ruleset or something.

all i can say is - I never saw Fianna for example, turn down a noob, she always guides new people and often direct them to me to get equipment and basic explanation in things my character is capable of. Same can be said of Indril most of the time.
But i agree that not all questions can be answered so easily, like when a noob asks me what is a good monster for him to fight, I tell them it depends on how good they are. They try to fight me usually, to find out, and when they hear that they should try flies, they ask: are flies easy or hard? I go, well, easier than me, easier than wolves, probably the easiest to kill. They go, what's after flies? I start to shrug, I guess mummies or bees, I guess. One time the newbie got mad that I mock him with flies, when he should be a great fighter, and walked off, the other time a newbie tried the mummies without properly realizing what they are, and returned ghosted, after which he logged off.
Some explanations, especially among fighters, result in duels, and discourage noobs anyway.

My question on this topic is: how come there is a giant number of noobs who think Illarion is a hack-n-slash? What happened to the Account System I remember back in 2004? You used to have to write an essay and an application to get into the game in the first place.
Now it's free for all. Noobs can cause disturbance in RP when you're trying to run a serious scene. Why has the responsibility of telling noobs to behave shifted from GM hands onto players' hands?
Noobs ruined my scenes on many occasions, but I just had to suck it up and live with it. And I bet any GM would say: "you can live with it, it's not a big deal to give 10-15 minutes of your time to a noob". But 10-15 minutes of time are quite a bit, when you're singing a song or designing a rhyme, or flirting with a girl, or talking about politics, or trying to solve a conflict.
Just when you reach understanding with somebody in an argument, a noob comes in, and interrupts your dialogue with nonsense like "lol, this game has bad graphics", and your RP partner leaves, losing interest in the event, simply maybe because they don't want to take the time from RP.

Don't get me wrong, I mentored and continue mentoring many good newbies, and some of them are now impressive RPers, but I fail more than I succeed, and it's annoying enough that I often just run and hide from them.

[Rincewind]

Is it ok to say to newbees that the schould have sometime a look in the handbook/Forum/Mainpage, because there will be a lot of useful informations?

greetings
Rincewind

[Amadi Yusuf Randal]

. I spend a lot of time showing new players around that I never see again. .

Probably after the workshop... the players you guide wont quit right after your explanations...

[Estralis Seborian]

The 2nd workshop, held in english, starts in around 20 minutes. See: http://illarion.org/statistics/de_quest ... d=46426745

In case you want to partizipate, just be ingame!

[Juniper Onyx]

Awwww, I missed it!

That was at 12pm PT, 1pm MT, 2 pm CST and 3pm EST on a Tuesday! Most people in these timezones work or have classes during those times. Is it possible to have another one at 6am GMT sometime, or even better---same time as today, but on a weekend?????

[abcfantasy]

Thank you for the workshop, it was both enjoyable and helpful.

On a side note, I'm thinking...that occassional OOC meetings can be helpful to lighten up things from time to time. For example, to see/test a new feature or maybe just a discussion of upcoming features, or some statistics, or questions and stuff. All these can be said on the forums true, but I think they can lighten up the mood having these OOC meetings IG (infrequent).

[Dantagon Marescot]

It was at 5pm actually. Trust me, I thought the same exact thing as you did when I saw the time.

And yes, thanks for the workshop, Estralis. I hope you hold another one so people who did miss it can attend.

[Athian]

Thank you for the workshop, it was both enjoyable and helpful.

On a side note, I'm thinking...that occassional OOC meetings can be helpful to lighten up things from time to time. For example, to see/test a new feature or maybe just a discussion of upcoming features, or some statistics, or questions and stuff. All these can be said on the forums true, but I think they can lighten up the mood having these OOC meetings IG (infrequent).

As i always say, the map wipe day when we all logged in and messed around with just a cross on the field. BEST DAY EVER

[Estralis Seborian]

Thanks for the feedback,
my weekends are usually pretty crowded with RL-stuff, but for upcoming workshops and alike I'll try to find better dates and times. Maybe our "nightshift-GMs" can step in, too.

[Keunthus]

The time of the meeting was a bit late, I would have prefered if it started an hour or two earlier. As it is, it ended a little after 1 AM for me, on a Tuesday. What could work is around 1 PM GMT or so, on a Saturday or Sunday?

[Pellandria]

maybe the english workshop should be divided into 2/3 different ones for those people who play on "europe" times and for those who play mainly in american times.