Im not sure, whether this hasnt come up yet, but anyway:
I'd have an idea about the jobs, but id would take some effort and
work to do it i think. What if one had to set 4-6 skills that he would be
able to do in the attribute. There, he'd could set if he would like to be able to be a Blacksmith,Goldsmith, lumberjacker...etc. . that would increase
dealing (Since i'm german i dont now the excact word..."Handeln") a lot.
If one was a lumberjacker and wanted an axe...or something like that,
and doesnt have the skill to smith, hed have to go to a blacksmith and
trade the things...maybe for wood...
this is just an idea...and like i said im not sure if it hasnt be mentioned yet...
however...think about it...
Preset Skills
Moderator: Gamemasters
If this were the case then you would have to decide while creating your character what they will be able to do for the rest of their lives. It's just another limitation that isn't necessary. You can now restrict yourself to one main profession and as you learn of new skills that are needed in life you can become interested and grow with the life around you. It's not possible to know from a young age as your character enters illarion what 2, 4, 6 or however many skills the limit would restrict you to that your character would grow to enjoy and wish to learn. I'm not saying you should learn them all. Not at all. In fact I think this is very bad.
I think you should restrict yourself and be reasonable. If you're a master blacksmith that's a very impressive thing, to be a master blacksmith and a master carpenter. That's borderline unbelievable. More? Not very likely. You should choose your skills wisely and moderately as your character would want them, not out of convenience and the ability to be your own living, breathing town center and able to create anything and everything yourself.
Limitations are fine if they're reasonable but since your character would grow and learn new things, want to try a few different professions before they found the one they really liked it would not be possible to limit that in this way. If you were to create a character and found that the profession you enjoyed most was not on your preset list of skills they would learn you would either have to make a new character and scrap all of the role-playing you had done up to that point or continue on playing the character with the professions you don't enjoy, making the game less fun. If you're making a new character that would also add more work for the admins who don't need any more work than they have already for trivial things that can be regulated by each individual person.
Another thing to remember is that not all of the possible skills are implemented into the game yet as many have yet to be thought of. If a limitation were set in place it would prevent introduction of new skills or limit the ability of new skills to only new characters. This would also mean that every old character would have to be wiped clean at the time the new system was implemented so all would be fair. This idea could be done when the skill system is finalized but as stated elsewhere this is an ongoing project and may never be 'finished' and as described above, in my opinion, is not necessary and would do more harm than good.
I think that selecting a main profession would be good in many ways but limiting all that one can attempt would be bad. I would rather see a way to limit how many skills someone could be a master of, if a limit had to be made on anything in this area of the game. This would prevent people from being masters of everything yet would allow them to attempt anything to see if it is something they would enjoy.
I think you should restrict yourself and be reasonable. If you're a master blacksmith that's a very impressive thing, to be a master blacksmith and a master carpenter. That's borderline unbelievable. More? Not very likely. You should choose your skills wisely and moderately as your character would want them, not out of convenience and the ability to be your own living, breathing town center and able to create anything and everything yourself.
Limitations are fine if they're reasonable but since your character would grow and learn new things, want to try a few different professions before they found the one they really liked it would not be possible to limit that in this way. If you were to create a character and found that the profession you enjoyed most was not on your preset list of skills they would learn you would either have to make a new character and scrap all of the role-playing you had done up to that point or continue on playing the character with the professions you don't enjoy, making the game less fun. If you're making a new character that would also add more work for the admins who don't need any more work than they have already for trivial things that can be regulated by each individual person.
Another thing to remember is that not all of the possible skills are implemented into the game yet as many have yet to be thought of. If a limitation were set in place it would prevent introduction of new skills or limit the ability of new skills to only new characters. This would also mean that every old character would have to be wiped clean at the time the new system was implemented so all would be fair. This idea could be done when the skill system is finalized but as stated elsewhere this is an ongoing project and may never be 'finished' and as described above, in my opinion, is not necessary and would do more harm than good.
I think that selecting a main profession would be good in many ways but limiting all that one can attempt would be bad. I would rather see a way to limit how many skills someone could be a master of, if a limit had to be made on anything in this area of the game. This would prevent people from being masters of everything yet would allow them to attempt anything to see if it is something they would enjoy.
of course its just an idea...it isnt worked out yet...
Actually, i dont really think that it should have chosen together
with the attributes myself. But the thing is at the moment,
that about everyone can make about everything he needs.
One of the few things you can really trade with are potions
between mages and druids....that cant be it...
maybe one could do it this way:
There are certain "masters" of about every craftmanship.
If you want to learn this craft in the game, you go to one of these.
Now im not sure how to put this best...i mean, if you try lumberjacking,
and you dont like it, its not good, if thats one of the rare skills you
can have, so its like a skill wasted...
Maybe there can then be a time of learning, or introducing to the craft itself. Then, if the person says, he wants to learn this craft, then it is added
to your skills.
hmmm....im not sure if this would work...it would take alot of work...and
several NPCs...anyway...its just a general idea...id be glad, if you posted
better suggestions...or things that could be better...
Actually, i dont really think that it should have chosen together
with the attributes myself. But the thing is at the moment,
that about everyone can make about everything he needs.
One of the few things you can really trade with are potions
between mages and druids....that cant be it...
maybe one could do it this way:
There are certain "masters" of about every craftmanship.
If you want to learn this craft in the game, you go to one of these.
Now im not sure how to put this best...i mean, if you try lumberjacking,
and you dont like it, its not good, if thats one of the rare skills you
can have, so its like a skill wasted...
Maybe there can then be a time of learning, or introducing to the craft itself. Then, if the person says, he wants to learn this craft, then it is added
to your skills.
hmmm....im not sure if this would work...it would take alot of work...and
several NPCs...anyway...its just a general idea...id be glad, if you posted
better suggestions...or things that could be better...
A thought of my own in this line taken from anohter game I've played.
In this other games all spells are gotten from learning from other players through scrolls. Only players can make scrolls, you can't buy them from any NPC. So if you want to learn, say, a healing spell you would have to go to someone who knows the healing spell and they would create a scroll and sell or give it to you.
Depending on how skilled they are with the healing spell itself determines how well this scroll is written, meaning how fast you learn from it. This could be done with runes in Illarion to a limited extent. Or other skills such as blacksmithing, etc...
The main problem with this system, however, is getting the spells in the game in the first place. The way this was originally done was that a player would say they were researching a certain spell, such as healing. A GM would say okay, this will cost you X gems, and X gold and X this and X that and this rare thing and take 3 months to research. Once they player gave all this then they were given the spell.
That is not, in my opionion, the best way to do it as it takes a lot of GM intervention. Perhaps one way to do it would be to give each mage 1 random rune when they researched in the library. Just one. To learn other runes they would have to search out mages who knewt he other learns and get them to teach them somehow.
Perhaps some runes wouldn't be given out in this manner, but you would have to qauest for them somehow. Maybe as simple as the way the mummies drop the books, or perhaps some harder quests.
Just some ideas of my own.
In this other games all spells are gotten from learning from other players through scrolls. Only players can make scrolls, you can't buy them from any NPC. So if you want to learn, say, a healing spell you would have to go to someone who knows the healing spell and they would create a scroll and sell or give it to you.
Depending on how skilled they are with the healing spell itself determines how well this scroll is written, meaning how fast you learn from it. This could be done with runes in Illarion to a limited extent. Or other skills such as blacksmithing, etc...
The main problem with this system, however, is getting the spells in the game in the first place. The way this was originally done was that a player would say they were researching a certain spell, such as healing. A GM would say okay, this will cost you X gems, and X gold and X this and X that and this rare thing and take 3 months to research. Once they player gave all this then they were given the spell.
That is not, in my opionion, the best way to do it as it takes a lot of GM intervention. Perhaps one way to do it would be to give each mage 1 random rune when they researched in the library. Just one. To learn other runes they would have to search out mages who knewt he other learns and get them to teach them somehow.
Perhaps some runes wouldn't be given out in this manner, but you would have to qauest for them somehow. Maybe as simple as the way the mummies drop the books, or perhaps some harder quests.
Just some ideas of my own.
What if there was an overall skill point cap limit? If there was something such as this than everyone could try every single trade but if they didn't like it they wouldn't continue doing it, and wouldn't be limited in what they could try. It would also prevent people from becoming masters of everything.
This is how it could work. (The numbers I mention are purely off the top of my head and are arbitrary in attempt to provide a better explanation of how such a system could work. If this is similar to any other systems in other games I'm sorry, I've only played one other game and any similarities are due to coincidence.)
To master a skill obviously requires experience and thus a certain amount of experience 'points'. Now these are used to determine the color of your bar in the skills window as well as what items you can make. Under the idea I have these points would do exactly what they do now except you would have a limit to the total number you can accumulate.
Let's say to become a master of one skill you have to accumulate 1,000 experience points. Now, your character would have a pool of a maximum of 3,000 experience points. In this way your character could become a master of three skills and nothing else or an average worker in many areas. This would prevent mastering all skills and allow personal experimentation into all skills.
When you've reached your maximum experience point total and you attempt a new skill, your other skills would reduce. It would be a sort of sliding scale. If you're a master smith and have reached your maximum level of experience points and you are working on carpentry you would lose skill in all other skills, including blacksmithing. This could lead to you losing your master smithing level, which would be realistic. If you don't practice something or change your job and practice something else your skills in the first will obviously diminish over time as your new skills increase.
The experience points you have would not be visible to the player so could not be discussed by players and because of this would not lead to more ooc talk. It would not create more of a leveling system than is already in place. As stated before, the numbers were arbitrary and the ratio of total experience points per level of mastery to total experience points obtainable could and should be worked with to maximize it's realistic effect.
What are your thoughts?
This is how it could work. (The numbers I mention are purely off the top of my head and are arbitrary in attempt to provide a better explanation of how such a system could work. If this is similar to any other systems in other games I'm sorry, I've only played one other game and any similarities are due to coincidence.)
To master a skill obviously requires experience and thus a certain amount of experience 'points'. Now these are used to determine the color of your bar in the skills window as well as what items you can make. Under the idea I have these points would do exactly what they do now except you would have a limit to the total number you can accumulate.
Let's say to become a master of one skill you have to accumulate 1,000 experience points. Now, your character would have a pool of a maximum of 3,000 experience points. In this way your character could become a master of three skills and nothing else or an average worker in many areas. This would prevent mastering all skills and allow personal experimentation into all skills.
When you've reached your maximum experience point total and you attempt a new skill, your other skills would reduce. It would be a sort of sliding scale. If you're a master smith and have reached your maximum level of experience points and you are working on carpentry you would lose skill in all other skills, including blacksmithing. This could lead to you losing your master smithing level, which would be realistic. If you don't practice something or change your job and practice something else your skills in the first will obviously diminish over time as your new skills increase.
The experience points you have would not be visible to the player so could not be discussed by players and because of this would not lead to more ooc talk. It would not create more of a leveling system than is already in place. As stated before, the numbers were arbitrary and the ratio of total experience points per level of mastery to total experience points obtainable could and should be worked with to maximize it's realistic effect.
What are your thoughts?
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John Laffing
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Niniane wrote:When you've reached your maximum experience point total and you attempt a new skill, your other skills would reduce. It would be a sort of sliding scale. If you're a master smith and have reached your maximum level of experience points and you are working on carpentry you would lose skill in all other skills, including blacksmithing. This could lead to you losing your master smithing level, which would be realistic. If you don't practice something or change your job and practice something else your skills in the first will obviously diminish over time as your new skills increase.
The problem with that is that in real life, you don't loose skills. I agree with you that there should be a limit of each skill. I think that instead of losing skills when learning new ones, it should be harder and harder to learn and perfect new skills. For example, if you have already perfected 3 skills, and you try to learn a fourth, it would be harder then it was when you learned the first skill.
Any opinions?
You do lose skill in real life. It's like the analogy of riding a bike. If you stop riding a bike for a few years and instead you drive a car, sure you'll still remember how to ride a bike if you try that again after a few years but you won't be as precise in your movements and it will take you a while to get used to doing that once more. This is just a very simple example. If you're a professional athelete and you retire and become something else such as a tv reporter then you will still remember how to play your game but your skills will diminish without practice as your reporting skills increase. If you don't practice something you can't get better and you'll eventually become worse and especially so if you're practicing and concentrating on something else.
I don't think a "skill cap" is necessary if the skills are made hard enought to master. If it takes ages just to master one skill and if by the time you master a skill you are already very old etc. then people would not have be like masters of all the crafts etc. etc. It would be a "skill cap" in a way but not in the mentioned sense. I think that would be more appropriate because realistically a person can really does keep learning till he dies, but it is not easy to "master" anything so that is why most people are do not have like 5 PHDs in our world.
So sorry for being off the subject, but, i would have to give this statement a condemnment of being false.You do lose skill in real life. It's like the analogy of riding a bike. If you stop riding a bike for a few years and instead you drive a car, sure you'll still remember how to ride a bike if you try that again after a few years but you won't be as precise in your movements and it will take you a while to get used to doing that once more.
Back to the orignal topic
(again sorry for changeing the topic)
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Bumbol Woodstock
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@nin- Althought you do lose some skill such as a bike you won't be able to do the tricks like you used to if you hadn't used it for a while, you would still be able to relearn the tricks extremely fast because your brains stores away that info and you will just remember exactly how to do it after a little bit of practice.
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John Laffing
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@Elaralith.
In Illarion as it is now it is possible to become a master of every single craft and skill, which is not realistic. Yes it will take time. A lot of time. But since there is no aging programmed yet the characters do not die or grow old and forgetful over time, they only grow wiser. My idea was just an alternate to the original post on how to limit the number of attainable master craftsmanship skills. It is hard but still possible to be a master of EVERYTHING. I said that if there is something implemented to forbid becoming a master of everything it should be something similar to my idea which would allow for change and development of the character over their life as opposed to the original idea of locking your character into a rigid mold they could never break as to what their character had the opportunity to do in their life by pre-selecting their future trade opportunities.
To those who think you can continue learning and never forget anything of how to do a trade, I would like to hear what you have to say about this in ten years after you've experienced the real world.
True, a master smith who took a few years off would remember what he had to do in order to make something of his previous skill level after a few hours or days of practice. However his body would not be able to do this. The conditioned reflexes, the firing mechanisms within the brain, the impulses sent through the synapses in the body that carry the impulse to the muscles would not be finely tuned for their current work. They would have lost their precision with their tools. This would take even longer to regain. They may remember how they must do it but their bodies would not instantly co-operate. For this reason I think it would be more realistic for the person to lose skill in areas they do not practice while they gain skill in the areas they do practice. They can of course regain the skill they lost by going back to their old trade, they would remember as you said. But it would take time, as it should.
In Illarion as it is now it is possible to become a master of every single craft and skill, which is not realistic. Yes it will take time. A lot of time. But since there is no aging programmed yet the characters do not die or grow old and forgetful over time, they only grow wiser. My idea was just an alternate to the original post on how to limit the number of attainable master craftsmanship skills. It is hard but still possible to be a master of EVERYTHING. I said that if there is something implemented to forbid becoming a master of everything it should be something similar to my idea which would allow for change and development of the character over their life as opposed to the original idea of locking your character into a rigid mold they could never break as to what their character had the opportunity to do in their life by pre-selecting their future trade opportunities.
To those who think you can continue learning and never forget anything of how to do a trade, I would like to hear what you have to say about this in ten years after you've experienced the real world.
True, a master smith who took a few years off would remember what he had to do in order to make something of his previous skill level after a few hours or days of practice. However his body would not be able to do this. The conditioned reflexes, the firing mechanisms within the brain, the impulses sent through the synapses in the body that carry the impulse to the muscles would not be finely tuned for their current work. They would have lost their precision with their tools. This would take even longer to regain. They may remember how they must do it but their bodies would not instantly co-operate. For this reason I think it would be more realistic for the person to lose skill in areas they do not practice while they gain skill in the areas they do practice. They can of course regain the skill they lost by going back to their old trade, they would remember as you said. But it would take time, as it should.
This is a sum up of what i agree with from this topic:
There should be no "skill locks" that once you learn to be a master at one thing, you can olny be a master at like 2 other things unless those current master skills drop
There should be so the first mastered skill (olny in craftsmanship, fighting, magic, and druid skills should stay super hard no matter what.) would grow lets say.. 2x. then the next skill you work on (again olny in crafts) would grow like 5x, then after that 11x, and so on and so forth. But! If you die, Youll gain the skills that youve already learned at 2x, untill you get to the point at which you were at before death/age/whatever else might of happened, then the skill would keep growing according to how it grew previously..
so basicly, if you made a character, and started to blacksmith, youd grow in that trade realitively easy, then you decided that you wanted to be a fisherman aswell, that skill would also grow but harder than the blacksmithing skill grew, then after that you wanted to be a tailor, the tailoring would grow very slowly. The next day (you were a busy bee the first day
) You went to mummies, and you died. Then youd say a few cursewords to yourself and proably go to regain your skills. The tailoring, fishing, and blacksmihting would grow back realitively easily. Then once you reach the point you were at before death, it would again be hard, the Blacksihting would grow at 2x, fishing at 5x and tailoring at 11x.
The next day you wanted to take your character hunting, so you go to the fly respawn to suit your skill level. You hit the flys and you fighting skills grow exceptionally slow (20x from orignal (without 10x), lets say) but they would grow none the less. Now after a good while of fighthing you get cocky and take on a scorpion. You die, and get ressurected, then you go back to flys to get your skills back up, these also go up exceptionally easy untill the point you were at before death.
This would apply to druiding and magics aswell, but i doubt youd want to hear another story saying an example of that, so ill just spare you the torchure.
The above numbes (2x, 11x, so on and so forth) are just random ones i got off the top of my little ol' head. I do understand that this would be a huge headaque to the programmers, but I myself think its a pretty good idea.
There should be no "skill locks" that once you learn to be a master at one thing, you can olny be a master at like 2 other things unless those current master skills drop
There should be so the first mastered skill (olny in craftsmanship, fighting, magic, and druid skills should stay super hard no matter what.) would grow lets say.. 2x. then the next skill you work on (again olny in crafts) would grow like 5x, then after that 11x, and so on and so forth. But! If you die, Youll gain the skills that youve already learned at 2x, untill you get to the point at which you were at before death/age/whatever else might of happened, then the skill would keep growing according to how it grew previously..
so basicly, if you made a character, and started to blacksmith, youd grow in that trade realitively easy, then you decided that you wanted to be a fisherman aswell, that skill would also grow but harder than the blacksmithing skill grew, then after that you wanted to be a tailor, the tailoring would grow very slowly. The next day (you were a busy bee the first day
) You went to mummies, and you died. Then youd say a few cursewords to yourself and proably go to regain your skills. The tailoring, fishing, and blacksmihting would grow back realitively easily. Then once you reach the point you were at before death, it would again be hard, the Blacksihting would grow at 2x, fishing at 5x and tailoring at 11x.The next day you wanted to take your character hunting, so you go to the fly respawn to suit your skill level. You hit the flys and you fighting skills grow exceptionally slow (20x from orignal (without 10x), lets say) but they would grow none the less. Now after a good while of fighthing you get cocky and take on a scorpion. You die, and get ressurected, then you go back to flys to get your skills back up, these also go up exceptionally easy untill the point you were at before death.
This would apply to druiding and magics aswell, but i doubt youd want to hear another story saying an example of that, so ill just spare you the torchure.
The above numbes (2x, 11x, so on and so forth) are just random ones i got off the top of my little ol' head. I do understand that this would be a huge headaque to the programmers, but I myself think its a pretty good idea.
Thanks Iqloo! 
A very good idea!
I agree with you.
But there is one problem:
some people first want to try out, what fits them best,
but when they do first one thing then another and the second
fits them best, it would be harder anyway...okay if its the second,
no problem...but what if its the seventh?
You'd have to work that out a bit...
A very good idea!
I agree with you.
But there is one problem:
some people first want to try out, what fits them best,
but when they do first one thing then another and the second
fits them best, it would be harder anyway...okay if its the second,
no problem...but what if its the seventh?
You'd have to work that out a bit...
@ Serp I really like that idea (even though I'm not a mage, or maybe because I'm not a mage 
). I know that's not what this thread is really about, but, I think this is still the best place for it (since the subjects been brought up.) When an older mage takes on an apprentice, it is always the custom (in books at least) to give him a few spells before he left. Now obviously the master didn't give the apprentice his best spells, but some simpler ones more suited to a young mage. I was wondering if there could be different levels of the different runes. They would, in fact, be the same rune, just with a different name, symbol, and its affect would be slightly different. If they casted a fire field, it would still be called a fire field with the same graphic and everything, but depending on what runes they used, it might be a little bit more or less powerfull. That way a master mage wouldn't be giving away his best runes to his apprentice. He could give the same runes, just in a less powerful form. It makes sense to me, but I don't know what everyone else thinks. Any ideas?
Kragmar
). I know that's not what this thread is really about, but, I think this is still the best place for it (since the subjects been brought up.) When an older mage takes on an apprentice, it is always the custom (in books at least) to give him a few spells before he left. Now obviously the master didn't give the apprentice his best spells, but some simpler ones more suited to a young mage. I was wondering if there could be different levels of the different runes. They would, in fact, be the same rune, just with a different name, symbol, and its affect would be slightly different. If they casted a fire field, it would still be called a fire field with the same graphic and everything, but depending on what runes they used, it might be a little bit more or less powerfull. That way a master mage wouldn't be giving away his best runes to his apprentice. He could give the same runes, just in a less powerful form. It makes sense to me, but I don't know what everyone else thinks. Any ideas?Kragmar
OK, I used the search function to bring up this old topic.
First, I like Serpardum's ideal of learning spells from other characters.
Second, I think that you should choose a profession when creating your character but not be limited in the other skills. You should have some skill when you first begin in your chosen profession.
When the character's first start they are usually between 17-22 years old, yet they have no skill whatsoever. People in medievil times often started learning a profession as young as 10 years old, as an apprentice to one of their parents or some other adult.
And to help stop powergaming the skills should have a time limit.
For example, you could only gain a certain amount of skill increase per day. After you reach the max for that day, your skill will not increase until the next day.
[/b]
First, I like Serpardum's ideal of learning spells from other characters.
Second, I think that you should choose a profession when creating your character but not be limited in the other skills. You should have some skill when you first begin in your chosen profession.
When the character's first start they are usually between 17-22 years old, yet they have no skill whatsoever. People in medievil times often started learning a profession as young as 10 years old, as an apprentice to one of their parents or some other adult.
And to help stop powergaming the skills should have a time limit.
For example, you could only gain a certain amount of skill increase per day. After you reach the max for that day, your skill will not increase until the next day.
[/b]