Domestic Animal Raising

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:05 am

I was thinking about a way that farmers could in the future raise domestic animals like pigs...and here is what I came up with!
My proposal:
To raise domesticated animals a farmer would need to find that animal he wants domesticated versions of, in the wild. Let's use the pig for an example. So a farmer wants to raise pigs. Following my idea he must first find a wild pig in the wild. After finding it (this is technical) to produce more grown up pigs he must use a food with it (perhaps fruits?). This "using of food with the pig" basically plays out the process a farmer domesticates an animal in RL, but in game form. Feeding the pig with grain tames it, and we can assume the pig is fertile. With food it reproduces (we can assume it mated). Depending on the skill level of the farmer in raising animals(how about the term Breeding) he would have a success rate in producing more animals in accordance. This would as any other skill need practice and sacrifices. So whether or not the farmer is successful in his breeding he would lose the food he fed to the animal in trying to get it to reproduce. This could work for all animals a farmer is allowed to raise. Different animals could require different food. For example a pig could eat fruits, a sheep could eat grain etc. etc. Thank-you for reading. Comments?
-Elaralith

Drogla · Post by **Drogla** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:18 am

at this stage of the game, how would that work? i can understand in the future...way way into the future of the game if that is when you think of

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:31 am

That sounds cool, but Drogla has a point, the animals would dissapear and what not...

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:39 am

I think that is a very good idea.
I would like to add some thing, because there is one point i dont like.
In your version, the farmer is able to make the (eg.) pig reproduce himsef out in the wilderness.
I think it would be better to lead the tamed animal into a stable or something like that. Only there it would be allowed to breed some other pigs.

Two other points:
Drogla,
i read Elaraliths post, i fond nowhere a sentance where she said "I want it now". In fact she said:

[...] a way that farmers could in the future [...]

(I added the underline)

Fooser,
Why should animals disapear? I dont get your logic.

Yours,
Loki

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:56 am

Loki, good idea! A stable as an added requirement...I thought of that, but I thought it might be to much of a trouble for potential farmers. I just thought of something to overcome that though! A rope...leading rope specifically could be implemented. It could be made through tailoring, and if you have it in your hand, if used on an animal it could enable the animal to follow where ever you go. This would eliminate the need for a mage to constantly help out in farming by casting the paralize spell so that the farmer can move the animal without it running off.

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:51 am

I like that idea... But the animal would get boring, you couldn't put it away in your depot, you would have to protect it constantly, you would feed it constantly, a lot of responsiblity. Plus what would be the point of having an animal? I would rather be able to raise horses for elves, humans and lizards and ponies for dwarves and halfing.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:57 am

If this was implemented, of course the domesticated animals would then be "Sellable" to Eliza the NPC trader for a price I assume. Also raising animals is very useful if you are a farmer. Players would want to buy the products produced by your animals as well (wool, leather etc.). Horses are domesticated animals so they could be raised as well...no horse graphics that I know of though that is why I did not mention them.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 3:47 am

The one major drawback i see to this is, What happens when you log off? Another thing is the time it would take to domesticate it. Which brings me to another point, what kind of skill do you need to raise to do this? There is no breeding mentioned in your other post.

My idea is to have horses and pack mules. I acknowledge it would take a long time to implement anything, but, is it true Dransik now has horses?

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:04 am

Ogre island has a system where you can buy horses and ride them, they are much faster then walking. But you are able to put them on a i dont know the word but in the wild west they tied their horses to it when you went into a bar or hotel. So, ya, we could have horse then tie them to one of those when we log off.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:05 am

@Paul I don't see the "drawback" that you are talking about. What happens to fields of crops when you log off? What happens to your smithing skills when you log off?...If you logged off the same things would apply. You wouldn't be able to play, but everything else would continue. The skill as mentioned above was suggested to be called "Breeding". What do you mean my other post? Horses etc. could be raised by farmers using the same idea, but that could take a while I think as perhaps there are no horse graphics yet. Hmm...I can't answer that one. I don't play nor care about "Dransik", besides we are discussing illarion issues right now. What does "Dransik" possibly having horses have to do with any of this? If you mean to make a comparison between the game "Dransik" and illarion there is really no point as "Dransik" I believe is a far older game than illarion.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:14 am

I was curious if Dransik had horses, and if they did, how it worked. Maybe you need to look at the big picture a little (i'm aware of the oxymoron

)) more, because all these games are very similar and the Illarion system could work similarly. Also, i believe you made a bad comparison, because crops, you can come on for 10 minutes and grow crops, if you have very little time. From what i read of your idea, it could take a long time, and then if you have to log off quickly, you lose your animal. Also, if you get disconnected, you just lost your animal because it is free now. ALSO, if you can breed them, the whole place could get crowded full of animals, which is the very same reason that there is no construction skill. Thank you for you time, and sorry about the very long post.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:25 am

i think this is the absolute best idea ive ever heard. I would absolutely love to farm animals. that would be the coolest thing.

In my mind there would be more land or towns for the animals to stay
in

and the farmer could make his own fence if that will ever be possible

and the idea of the pigs being sellable is great!!!!! that would be awesome, you can open the gate to you pen and then the pigs will follow you where ever you go.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:42 am

I would like horses too, it has been proposed in the past several times.
Apparently more animals means more lag, so that is perhaps a bad idea, proposals in the past for more animals etc were rejected due to lag.
I think Paul was asking what happens to the animans you bred when you log off, they just walk around for somone else to take kill or whatever? And they cant dissapear like your animals.
If stables are implimented with breeding and animals etc whats to stop a thief from entering the stables and looting the place? You couldnt make it so animals cant be stolen or it wouldnt be rp, no matter how annoying thieves are.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:45 am

in my big list of 15 ideas, one of my proposals was mounting horses, i still think that would be really cool... horses could be raised by the idea elaralith proposed, even though a mounting skill would be hard to create... i think

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:54 am

What would happen though? Would the horses run free? You couldn't keep them when you log off. What i saw in another game that was interesting was that you get a key to your house. If you die, there is a small chance you can drop your key. How about something like that? You can get keys to your stables if you can buy one. The only problem with that is that it would be a hard for the newbie to do this unless he borrowed someone else's key

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:01 am

fences paul

John Laffing · Post by **John Laffing** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 2:18 pm

Yes, breeding and raising animals would be an excellent idea for the game.

I also heard that there would be fences in the game soon.

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:01 pm

I am aware this feature would not be implemented for a while, but what if animals bred in the wild, only sounds natural, and monsters also, It would be good if you could tame ogre's for manual work or as fighters.

And we need cows and chickens, so then we could have milk and eggs, and I'm aware Im rambling off at this point so I will stop here.

Guingalan,

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 4:36 pm

The problem is that the whole world would get full of these things and then what would you do?!

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:54 pm

Kill em

Niniane · Post by **Niniane** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:08 pm

I think Gunglian has hit the proverbial nail on the head with that one and should just about end this discussion. Paul seems to be the only other one using a little bit of foresight in this.

If animal breeders or animals breed on their own the island would be overrun with wild animals because the owners would leave them when they logged and in times when there are no players online to control the population size the number of animals would just continue to increase and there would be times when the only thing to do on the island would be to go kill animals. For this reason I think this is a bad idea and will be so until there is some way to contain the animals within lockable doors or fences as they've said, but this would require a much larger map in order to facilitate the construction of hundreds of animal pens which would inevitably show up when a third of the population decided that they would just have to be an animal trainer.

It would also cause much more lag than currently exists or so says one of the other posts. This would be a devastating drawback to the idea, one of the many. If there was an exponential increase in the animal population as would surely happen when animals were let to roam free after a few of the breeders logged off then the lag would become unbearable if this does affect such things.

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 6:30 pm

To prevent a "overcrowded" Illarion, just give these breeded animals a *Lifespan*.
Let them simply only life some illarion days.
By the way, Animals, especialy tamed, can starve and die to if thier "Owner" does not feed them.
And because this feature will be set up in the future, who is saying that the world of Illarion does not expand?

Yours,
Loki

P.S.: Who tries to tame a Ogre, isnt a very clever *farmer* in my eyes.
Monster with a decent inteligence cant be tamed.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:27 pm

1*2=2
2*2=4
4*2=8
8*2=16
16*2=32
32*2=64
64*2=128

Do you see where i am going? Just by using elementary math, you can see how things would fill up quickly. Now imagine 30 people have animals. That means multiplying by 60, assuming every animal has 2 children. Even after a couple of days, the animals would take over.

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:59 pm

Paul,

i never thaught i will say this to anybody, but you prove me wrong.
You think way to simple.
I have graduated in math, so there is no need to give me an example in it.

But you are missing one very important point. Time
It will need time to find a wild animal, time to tame it, so that it will follow you back to your stable. Than again you need to get food, to feed it again.
After a while i will reproduce himself, one other animal has been born. Again this needs to be tamed, feeded to reproduce itself. Your first animal is already death, due its age or because you slauthered it for meet, lether, whatever.
You think it is simple? Just bring a pig to the stable and *plop* *plop* *plop* thousands of pigs at your service? No way! You have to get good in different skills first. "Traming", "Breeding" maybe even "Slaughtering".
I think you can, if you where realy good at all points, have 3 animals at once.
By the way, you all seem to think everybody is going to raise sheeps, pigs and cows, isnt that a bit far away from reality?

Yours,
Loki

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:02 pm

But if 100 people are doing this at once, it should only be a month before the world is covered. And that is a gracious guess, because it would probably happen sooner.

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:28 pm

Ahw Paul, you dont even try to understand, do you?

100 Persons? from where do you want to get them?
We have hardly more than 30 Player online, only a hand full long enouth to be a animal-farmer.
Again, you fail to understand the factor Time in this proposal.
Lets say a tamed animal has a life span from 3 Hours, and need 1 Hour to reproduce himself (it will get 1 kid and reproduce himself only once)
You need 1 hour to get the animal reproduce.
You now have two (eg.) pigs.
After another hour you have 3 Pigs. 2 hours passed.
If you reproduce once more, you wont get more, still only 3. The forst died due his ended lifespan.

To weaken you "overcrowding" argument. You seem to forget that reproducment only takes place in a stable. So if the stable is full you simply cant get more animals.
And another one. Like i said we only have 30 players online. Best you can get to tame animals is 10 playes.
So the maximum of 30 Animals may be reached, if the local stable supports 30 animals.

Please, bring up a new contra argument. "Overcrowding" doenst work.
The only thing maybe lag, but thats a point where i cant guess.

Yours,
Loki
P.S.: Due a chrash of my PC i had to rewrite that in a hurry, please overlook heavy spelling and grammar mistakes. Thank you in advance.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:34 pm

But there are 30 people during the day, and 30 different people usually on at night, because of the Germany- America time difference. So even if 30 people do it, they get 1 stable each. They stay on for 3 hours, and get, hmmm... let me see. They start out with one. Next hour they have 2. Then they get 4, but one dies. If they go on for another hour, they get 5. That is quick expansion. But anyway, what about the people who come on at night? Where are they're stables? And if there are 5 animals after 4 hours, multiply that by 30 and you get 120. It does expand. But you have nulled my arguement with the stable argument.

So here is another argument. What about the time? It seems it takes a very long time to do this, and many people, if not most, don't have that time.

I think this is a good idea, but i am skeptical.

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:45 pm

Erm ... how can you get 5 Animals? After 3 Hours one of your animals dies, and because it can only reprduce once with one kid you can never get more than 3 animals per player/character.

A ; B ; C ... this are your 3 animals after 2 hours of playing.
A (dies); B (does nothing because it already reproduces); C reprod.-> D
Now you have:
B; C ; D ... your animals after 3 hours of playing
B (dies); C (does nothing because it already reproduces); D reprod.-> E
Now you have:
C ; D ; E ... your animals after 4 hour of playing.

A local Stable would be a public buldig, supporting a fixed number of animals, so you cant (no matter how many farmers there are) get more than the stable supports.
Of course you may buy our own stable, but i think it would be very expansive.

Time:
Only the ones with time may be animal-farmer, others not. Why worrie about it? it helps to keep the animal population low.

Yours,
Loki

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:48 pm

Oooooooh, i thought they could reproduce more than once. That is where i got that number.

I don't think people would like that number. Maybe if they live 30 minutes and bred after 10 minutes would be better so people don't feel left out.

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 9:55 pm

It sure can be fastenend at the desire of the players, grain grows fast too.
It was just to show in which form i think the system shall run.
Any other suggestions about that?
A whole new system unlike my proposal?

Yours,
Loki