First, forgive me for my following english.
Well, at the moment a char with normal strength can wear a heavy armor,
without any real negative effects or even get the little message of carrying too much.
It is a bit... whatever... if someone in full plate can run as fast as someone who only wears normal clothes.
So, my prosposal with +/-´s that i had in mind:
simply Increase weight of armors
+ works also if the armor is in the belt/bag
+ would block crafting (especially fishing) with the armor in bag/belt
- would support "uber-warriors"
or
(mabye a combination of both?)
reduce speed depending on the armor class
- you could flee if you put the armor in the bag
+ would not be an advantage for straingt-orientated chars
I´m not quite shure if there already is something like this, but if, it has nearly no effects.
Your opinion please.
weight of armors
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Juliana D'cheyne
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Your English is great
Normally this would make sense for a skill. However, my concern is the disadvantage to fighters as it is. Especially those just starting.
1. Food and decreased constitution-while affecting some crafters, mainly affects fighters while training.
2. Drops-the low end drops with rarely coins, and some weapons that are usable if can possibly use bad/old ones, along with the heavy weight of some items requiring the char to decide whether it is worth keeping and selling.
3. Price of potions-if training, the new char will spend quite a bit of time simply waiting for the health bar to rise, which would be great for RP purposes if any of the low end NPC's are anywhere near a town.
4. Training-the slow process of increasing a skill that in order to possibly RP anything but an RP duel, takes some time to raise.
(disclaimer-I am only addressing skill since the proposal is related to a skill and not RP)
Anyway, I would not like to see this ig at this moment.
Normally this would make sense for a skill. However, my concern is the disadvantage to fighters as it is. Especially those just starting.
1. Food and decreased constitution-while affecting some crafters, mainly affects fighters while training.
2. Drops-the low end drops with rarely coins, and some weapons that are usable if can possibly use bad/old ones, along with the heavy weight of some items requiring the char to decide whether it is worth keeping and selling.
3. Price of potions-if training, the new char will spend quite a bit of time simply waiting for the health bar to rise, which would be great for RP purposes if any of the low end NPC's are anywhere near a town.
4. Training-the slow process of increasing a skill that in order to possibly RP anything but an RP duel, takes some time to raise.
(disclaimer-I am only addressing skill since the proposal is related to a skill and not RP)
Anyway, I would not like to see this ig at this moment.
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Richard Cypher
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Things weigh the same in belt or bag as on body already.+ works also if the armor is in the belt/bag
+ would block crafting (especially fishing) with the armor in bag/belt
- would support "uber-warriors"
You can't even wear body armor while crafting, not to mention that it weighs most crafters down to much to carry. And if a crafter wanted an armor on hand in case they were to be attacked, they could RP having one on the table/ground next to them.
I think heavier armors making you slower would be so extremely annoying to a point where no one would use them.
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Juliana D'cheyne
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Since the proposal is about a skill and not RP, I would have to say that it is also about PGingBeldir wrote:And I think we hear the voices of powergamers who want to let the biggest armors to be as light as a feather.
I find the proposal is good. Very heavy armors are something for open war and not day to day clothes.
-Ok.. maybe for dwarves, but does a dwarf have to bo fast?
However, you would have to consider not only the weight of the armor, but the size and weight of the char/race wearing it if you want to be very technical. Hence, a dwarf or halfling would possibly not be able to wear as heavy of an armor as say a human, or an elf. The lizard possibly being able to effectively wear the heaviest with least problems. It seems that a fairy would not be able to wear any at all but I don't think they usually do, though may be mistaken. This should also apply then to weapons. I would imagine a serinjah would weigh heavier then a dagger or rapier? Of course, the bigger shields would possibly be heavy also?
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Kevin Lightdot
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Ehm.. Arn't dwarves supposed to be strong? They can make armour to each size too.Juliana D'cheyne wrote:
Since the proposal is about a skill and not RP, I would have to say that it is also about PGing
However, you would have to consider not only the weight of the armor, but the size and weight of the char/race wearing it if you want to be very technical. Hence, a dwarf or halfling would possibly not be able to wear as heavy of an armor as say a human, or an elf. The lizard possibly being able to effectively wear the heaviest with least problems. It seems that a fairy would not be able to wear any at all but I don't think they usually do, though may be mistaken. This should also apply then to weapons. I would imagine a serinjah would weigh heavier then a dagger or rapier? Of course, the bigger shields would possibly be heavy also?
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Estralis Seborian
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What I miss about this proposal are the benefits for the game. It is "robust design" of MMORPGs and CRPGs that a character can carry much, much more than a real person and that's just fine I think. A malus on walking speed, as heavy armor gives a malus on dodging, might be OK, but I am not really convinced that this can make the game more fun!
Keep in mind that the walking speed of characters is very low, compared to other games. Reducing it even more needs very good reasons.
Keep in mind that the walking speed of characters is very low, compared to other games. Reducing it even more needs very good reasons.
Well, i just write down the two benefits this would bring in my eyes.
In the core they are the same as for the diet system.
Support of Tailors
At the moment Tailors nearly just produce into the rubbish chute of the npc-traders.
When armors become heavier, the demand for leather- and normal clothing stuff would rise.
To produce/sell something for/to a player-char is quite more satisfying rp than selling it to an npc.
Better Atmosphere
A point to argue, shure. But if Rangers don´t explore the island wearing a full plate,
People wear normal clothes in peacetimes, the wilderness becomes more dangerous,
Chars wear individual armors, depending on what they normally do and how strong they are,
the Atmosphere of a medival Fantasyworld is better shown as if it is the opposit of these points.
This wouldn´t be a too big disadvantage for fighters, just remind that we have that cows now.
A char can put his armor and food onto one, walk to the dungeon, place it there,
(yes, anohter one has to take care of it, but it won´t be too difficult to find someone for that)
and the booty can be brought up and put into the cow-depot.
This may also be a chance for trader-chars who can buy the stuff at the dungeon and sell it to the npc´s then.
Both would be a great chance for good rp.
And finally, there are not only monsters in dungeons.
In the core they are the same as for the diet system.
Support of Tailors
At the moment Tailors nearly just produce into the rubbish chute of the npc-traders.
When armors become heavier, the demand for leather- and normal clothing stuff would rise.
To produce/sell something for/to a player-char is quite more satisfying rp than selling it to an npc.
Better Atmosphere
A point to argue, shure. But if Rangers don´t explore the island wearing a full plate,
People wear normal clothes in peacetimes, the wilderness becomes more dangerous,
Chars wear individual armors, depending on what they normally do and how strong they are,
the Atmosphere of a medival Fantasyworld is better shown as if it is the opposit of these points.
This wouldn´t be a too big disadvantage for fighters, just remind that we have that cows now.
A char can put his armor and food onto one, walk to the dungeon, place it there,
(yes, anohter one has to take care of it, but it won´t be too difficult to find someone for that)
and the booty can be brought up and put into the cow-depot.
This may also be a chance for trader-chars who can buy the stuff at the dungeon and sell it to the npc´s then.
Both would be a great chance for good rp.
And finally, there are not only monsters in dungeons.
My main character normally wears a breast plate, soBeldir wrote:And I think we hear the voices of powergamers who want to let the biggest armors to be as light as a feather.
I find the proposal is good. Very heavy armors are something for open war and not day to day clothes.
-Ok.. maybe for dwarves, but does a dwarf have to bo fast?
n00b.And consider what Estralis said about how slow we already move in this game. Taking 1.5-3 times as long to get to monsters is the opposite of fun.
No one will buy leather armors in the future. They suck, plain and simple. A warrior is better of moving at a third their normal speed than in a leather armor when it comes to NPCs.
The ranger thing has nothing to do with this. If armors were heavier they would not wear them around the island and they don't have to wear when around now. It would make no difference in that circumstance. I will remind you, this is Illarion, we have no peacetime. Characters still wear individual armors depending on their strength.A point to argue, shure. But if Rangers don´t explore the island wearing a full plate,
People wear normal clothes in peacetimes, the wilderness becomes more dangerous,
Chars wear individual armors, depending on what they normally do and how strong they are,
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Estralis Seborian
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Bingo.
Meaning: You are right. Making stuff A suck because stuff B sucks, resulting in A and B sucking, well, that sucks. So, make stuff B pwn because A pwns, resulting A and B pwning, well, that pwns.
@Q-wert: You wrote the pros of "people demand and use clothes and leather goods", not the pros of "make characters move slower when they wear plate armor". You assume that people will react by wearing leather when plate armor makes them slower, I would not be so sure.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I am not a dedicated foe of this proposal. But until now, I have not read a good argument for it, just good arguments for making other types of clothes / armor more attractive. Don't make quick conclusions about the effects of a change to the game. An example would be if you run a kiosk and you want that people buy more lollipops, you usually don't achieve this by raising the prices of candies. A common reaction to such actions by customers is to say "smiling kiosk, I go to wal mart!"...
Meaning: You are right. Making stuff A suck because stuff B sucks, resulting in A and B sucking, well, that sucks.
So, make stuff B pwn because A pwns, resulting A and B pwning, well, that pwns.@Q-wert: You wrote the pros of "people demand and use clothes and leather goods", not the pros of "make characters move slower when they wear plate armor". You assume that people will react by wearing leather when plate armor makes them slower, I would not be so sure.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I am not a dedicated foe of this proposal. But until now, I have not read a good argument for it, just good arguments for making other types of clothes / armor more attractive. Don't make quick conclusions about the effects of a change to the game. An example would be if you run a kiosk and you want that people buy more lollipops, you usually don't achieve this by raising the prices of candies. A common reaction to such actions by customers is to say "smiling kiosk, I go to wal mart!"...
Last edited by Estralis Seborian on Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Warining: Possible flame in bad english.
And if you would want to walk, why wouldn´t you take a cow?
The walking time would be as much as now.
Rangers (not all, but i know some) actually wear plate armors, because they can walk as fast as without.
It depends on how much time the player invested in powergaming money or smithing.
but it woudn´t change that a person in full plate can run away from goblins, for example.
Finally, @Estralis:
If fighters would not wear their armors when sitting in tavern, walking around and town-rp, they would´t run around nacked, would they?
You don´t even have to leave Bane to get to monsters.Lrmy wrote:And consider what Estralis said about how slow we already move in this game. Taking 1.5-3 times as long to get to monsters is the opposite of fun.
And if you would want to walk, why wouldn´t you take a cow?
The walking time would be as much as now.
Sorry, I don´t understand what you mean.Lrmy wrote:The ranger thing has nothing to do with this.
Rangers (not all, but i know some) actually wear plate armors, because they can walk as fast as without.
No. At the moment the strength (skills or attribute) has nothing to do with the armor a char wears.Lrmy wrote:Characters still wear individual armors depending on their strength.
It depends on how much time the player invested in powergaming money or smithing.
I rally like the idea,Wyrda wrote:Make leathers better
but it woudn´t change that a person in full plate can run away from goblins, for example.
Finally, @Estralis:
If fighters would not wear their armors when sitting in tavern, walking around and town-rp, they would´t run around nacked, would they?
Buddy, different strengths allow you to use different armors better, trust me. You just don't know. Most monsters are outside of Bane. Taking a cow to monsters is just bad RP. It makes no sense. You waist money getting it there. It would likely die if real monsters were attacking..ect..ect..
And please, don't mention flames. This is a proposal board and we are both stating opinions, there is no need for flames bud.
And please, don't mention flames. This is a proposal board and we are both stating opinions, there is no need for flames bud.
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Richard Cypher
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You are wrong again, same as you were about the elvenswords. That is two for two you have been wrong about now. I use light armors a lot. LIGHT blue breastplate. Silversteel. Chainmail. I could go on but you get the point. You are frequentyly dealing with lower skilled people again. At low skills you should not be wearing armor that benefits your dodge versus parry or taking hits. You can not dodge. As you get higher though you can wear more armor better.Cuthalion wrote:I think this is a good suggestion (the one about lowering speed), mainly because it would make people use light armours as well. Currently everyone wears heavy armour.
Be careful about giving warriors even more disadvantages, without giving them any carrots in return though.
Most people have lower skilled characters, so they don't really understand the point that you need to work at a skill before you can understand it.Richard Cypher wrote:You are wrong again, same as you were about the elvenswords. That is two for two you have been wrong about now. I use light armors a lot. LIGHT blue breastplate. Silversteel. Chainmail. I could go on but you get the point. You are frequentyly dealing with lower skilled people again. At low skills you should not be wearing armor that benefits your dodge versus parry or taking hits. You can not dodge. As you get higher though you can wear more armor better.Cuthalion wrote:I think this is a good suggestion (the one about lowering speed), mainly because it would make people use light armours as well. Currently everyone wears heavy armour.
Be careful about giving warriors even more disadvantages, without giving them any carrots in return though.
no offense to anyone of course.