What I don't like about Illarion

[Llama]

This is meant to be a level-headed post regarding some aspects of illarion I don't like. I do not offer solutions, though in some case they may be obvious. This is here to point out what irritates me, and for everyone else to note whether there really IS a problem with some aspects, or I'm a bit too picky. I don't mean to insult the developers who have done a good job in the game...

Excessive Dragging and Dropping

I don't like dragging and dropping, and I don't think anyone likes it either. The problem is that illarion asks for just.. too much dragging and dropping. Lets say you're fighting in the crypt, you're collecting entrials, which are very heavy, so every now and then you clip them to get thread. So you drag your weapons into your bag, you drag the scissors out, you use the scissors with the entrials, you wait, you drag it back, you drag your weapons out again. Doesn't it seem like a bit too much? You're dragging something in a tiny square to another tiny square, which isn't a very nice experience.

Lets say you try fishing, and you usually wear metal armour, again you drag everything out, fish, then drag everything back again.

Some things are needed, like not allowing the person to drink potions during battle, but other things, like this one, make the game more realistic, but not very fun in my opinion.

SKill grinding

Before you could log on once a day, play for a bit, do a bit of skilling up and you're done. Nowadays you literally have to GRIND skills in order to ever become anything. The fact that nowadays you often needs TONS of materials to make anything (since you can fail a lot), means that you spend a lot of time getting raw materials, then an even longer time practicing/powergaming your skills.

I don't know, I don't find skillgrinding fun myself...

This also drains the amount of roleplayers around, since everyone is powergaming their head off. Also, everyone is crafting, and therefore if you try to roleplay, your character will never amount to anything.

This isn't fun, this is just irritating

Specific areas to craft

I don't like the crafter tables, because they choke the amount of roleplay, before I used to have a crafter character, who used to wait outside of Eliza's store, and craft wood there; that way, if someone tried to roleplay with me, I would be able to. Nowadays you can't do that anymore, since you need the table, and so everyone is in the workshop skilling up, and there is barely the roleplay which there used to be.

This is irritating.

Moreover this empties the amount of people who wait/live in towns, since if you're alone you can't roleplay, and there is no reason to spend 10 minutes walking to some far off town, and there is nothign to do while you wait for anyone to log on.

Automessage when doing anything

Spams the screen in an irritating fashion. Moreoever I beleive that what I want to show to others, I can #me myself. I don't need the system to do it for me. Also due to the excessive amount of interruptions, there are usually tons of messages.

Can we remove them? If a person doesn't want to roleplay, popping up a message each time isn't the solution.

Nothing to do with goods

Ok, so you've spent hours collecting enough raw materials to make your goods, you've spent hours making goods, with so much failures that their value has shot up like mad, then you discover that you have nothing to do with the goods you've finished.

Most people end up creating tons of the same product, and then farm Npcs...

Interruption of work

Another irritating thing. If i'm sewing and i prick my fingers, or cut my hand with the scissors its allright. Its something I'd roleplay myself... Thing is, getting TONS of these messages is just irritating, and I'm not going to roleplay cutting my hand every 14 seconds (I wouldn't have a hand left). Also a SKILLED tailor for example wouldn't be stupid enough to cut his own hand, and would probably wear a thimble to prevent getting pricked. For crying out loud, you can take a lot of sword slashes, but you can't take a small prick?

I know its there to stop powergaming, but really, we used to click 3 times to create a single product, so another few clicks won't make a difference.
---

Comments? Am I being to picky?

[Cabbage]

Yep. Someone go get Nitram.

[Gwendolin Cad'ell]

Well, I don't have a single crafter character myself, so I'm pretty much the last person to comment on this anyway, but this:

Interruption of work

Another irritating thing. If i'm sewing and i prick my fingers, or cut my hand with the scissors its allright. Its something I'd roleplay myself... Thing is, getting TONS of these messages is just irritating, and I'm not going to roleplay cutting my hand every 14 seconds (I wouldn't have a hand left). Also a SKILLED tailor for example wouldn't be stupid enough to cut his own hand, and would probably wear a thimble to prevent getting pricked. For crying out loud, you can take a lot of sword slashes, but you can't take a small prick?

... is probably not supposed to annoy you, or meant 'to roleplay' for you. But I think it's solely *meant* that your work gets interrupted, so you don't just click on your 250 wool or 250 dough and just walk away, doing something else, while your character works. I would say this is supposed to keep you at the screen.


Edit:

I don't like dragging and dropping, and I don't think anyone likes it either. The problem is that illarion asks for just.. too much dragging and dropping. Lets say you're fighting in the crypt, you're collecting entrials, which are very heavy, so every now and then you clip them to get thread. So you drag your weapons into your bag, you drag the scissors out, you use the scissors with the entrials, you wait, you drag it back, you drag your weapons out again. Doesn't it seem like a bit too much? You're dragging something in a tiny square to another tiny square, which isn't a very nice experience.

Lets say you try fishing, and you usually wear metal armour, again you drag everything out, fish, then drag everything back again.

Some things are needed, like not allowing the person to drink potions during battle, but other things, like this one, make the game more realistic, but not very fun in my opinion.

The fact that your character has just two hands isn't too much realism in my opinion... I think you are a bit picky on *that* manner.

[Cabbage]

I HAD A DREAM, where I could shift+click my scissors and then shift+click my entrails ON MY BELT.

But then Nitram was like 'Lol NEEB' and woke me up. I think it was a wet dream, too.

>.>

Old Illar ftw.

[Lennier]

Excessive Dragging and Dropping

I don't like dragging and dropping, and I don't think anyone likes it either. The problem is that illarion asks for just.. too much dragging and dropping. Lets say you're fighting in the crypt, you're collecting entrials, which are very heavy, so every now and then you clip them to get thread. So you drag your weapons into your bag, you drag the scissors out, you use the scissors with the entrials, you wait, you drag it back, you drag your weapons out again. Doesn't it seem like a bit too much? You're dragging something in a tiny square to another tiny square, which isn't a very nice experience.

Ha, Entrails and making thread! I ready began a discuss to change it. It is a lack within the crafter system. It need to be linked on a static tool like all other processes to make intermediate goods. In my eyes it is nonsense to stay beside of the mummies or pigs/sheeps/whatever, and to make thread there. Curently it is only an old relict of times of powergaming.

Lets say you try fishing, and you usually wear metal armour, again you drag everything out, fish, then drag everything back again.

Right, This feature is only for you and all who wears metal armour the whole day. Really. It is no joke. It is a usefull disadvantage against wearing weapons and armours the whole day. Weak thiefs should use such situations to try to rub your goods, to fight you. If you do not want to be without your armour, do not try to craft. Other people can be payed for this job.

Some things are needed, like not allowing the person to drink potions during battle, but other things, like this one, make the game more realistic, but not very fun in my opinion.

Same again. A feature against people, who want to play a hyper-warrior the whole day, which can not be beaten by his uses of tons of potions during the fights.

[Pellandria]

You think "normal" crafter and figther are put down, then let me tell about mages:
-Our first spells are crap, they are complettly useless, I need my whole manabar to kill one rabbit
-We can't skill always like other people, while you can just walk somewhere and work, mages need to wait for the magic to refill
-You can't cast around a rp situation, its bothering other people, while it is completly fine to rp around a crafter table
-It takes ages to get a skillup + you hit the skillcap extremly fast
-We got our wands taken away, not only that every average figther, who had enough daggers and swords in his depot, got an assload of silver, we only got 1 for wands aswell and as we can't carry any metal or our spells are even worse, we normally didn't have loads of metallweapons/armours in our depots
-Icebirds are taken away...we got an apple..wodepedo

Mages always get a punch in the face, we need more food then any figther or crafter and get nearly no money untill we powergame years to get the better spells, who have atleast some effect, so why you bitch about dragging your weapons away...crafter and figther got the bigger side of the pie.

[Taeryon Silverlight]

You think "normal" crafter and figther are put down, then let me tell about mages:
-Our first spells are crap, they are complettly useless, I need my whole manabar to kill one rabbit
-We can't skill always like other people, while you can just walk somewhere and work, mages need to wait for the magic to refill
-You can't cast around a rp situation, its bothering other people, while it is completly fine to rp around a crafter table
-It takes ages to get a skillup + you hit the skillcap extremly fast
-We got our wands taken away, not only that every average figther, who had enough daggers and swords in his depot, got an assload of silver, we only got 1 for wands aswell and as we can't carry any metal or our spells are even worse, we normally didn't have loads of metallweapons/armours in our depots
-Icebirds are taken away...we got an apple..wodepedo

Mages always get a punch in the face, we need more food then any figther or crafter and get nearly no money untill we powergame years to get the better spells, who have atleast some effect, so why you bitch about dragging your weapons away...crafter and figther got the bigger side of the pie.

/signed

[Llama]

I used to have a mage character as well.

I had planned to put it in, but i kinda forgot...
-
@ lennier: So you're goign to make a person haul 15 (maximum) entrials, to the static tool, so he can make them into thread, then sells them to a tailor to make 1 coat or 2 (with failures). That will make tailors even MORE useless, and now you have to pay MORE money to be more useless.
-

@ Gwen: Its irritating, i KNOW its supposed to be for people to stay there, but seriously, why have an automated system if it keeps terminating? They should find a way to kill off powergamers which doesn't involving irritating the ones that don't.

[Cabbage]

My Ideas:

1. Take out magic system
2. Take out crafting system
3. Take out the 'Tired' system.
3. Rename game to 'Run Escape'.

[Llama]

Josh, shut up and go do something useful with your time...

go and powergame runescape like you used to, it p****s less people off.

[Cabbage]

Josh, shut up and go do something useful with your time...

go and powergame runescape like you used to, it p****s less people off.

... 'O.o

[Achae Eanstray]

Some things are needed, like not allowing the person to drink potions during battle, but other things, like this one, make the game more realistic, but not very fun in my opinion.

SKill grinding

Before you could log on once a day, play for a bit, do a bit of skilling up and you're done. Nowadays you literally have to GRIND skills in order to ever become anything.

Agreed, I have not wanted to say anything previously because I really do appreciate the developers and the hard work they do for the game, and am extremely glad there is that interest. But I have quit attempting to be even half-way good at anything related to crafting with all my chars. For those needing to skill in order to RP their char, I have stood at the table with them in order to RP. However, IMO, the static tables are very irritating. In order to cook sausages, my char has burned every finger on her hand and eventually I just ignored the messages....

Automessage when doing anything

Spams the screen in an irritating fashion. Moreoever I beleive that what I want to show to others, I can #me myself. I don't need the system to do it for me. Also due to the excessive amount of interruptions, there are usually tons of messages.

Can we remove them? If a person doesn't want to roleplay, popping up a message each time isn't the solution.?

Please remove them?

Pella, I also agree.......... sighs

[Cliu Beothach]

Whoever has the worst situation is the best rper.

[Cabbage]

Whoever has the worst situation is the best rper.

Such as Brer Beothatch. *sigh* You were always staring at that damn grass. The damn grass!

[Cliu Beothach]

Whoever has the worst situation is the best rper.

Such as Brer Beothatch. *sigh* You were always staring at that damn grass. The damn grass!

Umm, thats not the point.

[Cabbage]

Yes, it is.

It's hard, now, to say.. stand in front of the shop and talk to people. Or.. maybe.. light up a camp fire without burning down the whole damn town. If you do wish to ONLY roleplay, you'll be forced to shove your fun-oriented nose into the ground and stare at each individual blade of grass until you decide to press ESC, or, pick up a pickaxe. The choice has already been decided for a lot of people.

[Cliu Beothach]

No, that was not the point.

[Cabbage]

Bite me pls.

[Estralis Seborian]

I really appreciate that you wrote down these points and I'd wish everybody would do so. In special those who are annoyed by some things so they leave. Don't exspect the devs to change every- or anything, though. People have different opinions and also the devs have certain ideas for this game. It won't become the perfect game for everyone, that's impossible. Here are some personal comments from me, not representing the opinion of the staff.

Excessive dragging and dropping:
For me, it is OK. Other games do it alike, having to change equipment in order to craft adds "something" to the game, even though it might be cumbersome from time to time. But what other games do better, just as you mentioned, one cannot simply choose "Equip" from the context menu or drag the item on the avatar / inventory but has to aim at a tiny square. So, what would help is an automated "Equip"-function, but this would require server- and client changes as well. But wonders do happen, don't they?

Skill grinding
100% agreed. The skill system itself is awesome and almost perfect, but the balancing is not. I mean, we're not here to skill 24/7 and powergaming is not reduced by making it necessary, no? I can think of a way out of the mess, but it might be hard to accomplish and won't satisfy gamers that ARE here to skill 24/7...

Specific areas to craft
I doubt the decline of RP is due to forming a hot spot. In tgod, everybody was crafting at the old forge and most RP had its start there. If one wanted to find chars, one knew where to search. So hot spots usually help the RP. And before the changes, a char could craft all alone in the woods without having any chance to meet another char at all, now one has a good chance to meet somebody else in the workshop. If those encounters do not create RP-scenes, something is going wrong.

Automessages when doing anything
They annoy me, too. SFX should be sufficient.

Nothing to do with goods
Hmm, farming the NPCs is nothing I'd call bad. IMHO, this should be expanded even more. Like, one being able to sell all stuff somewhere, maybe even being motivated to travel to certain places where one gets more money from a NPC, is that a bad idea? What I think is the problem here: One is forced to a) craft thousands of items to level up b) craft the same items because they are the only ones the local NPC buys. Changing a) and b) is the way to go.

Interruption of work
Aye, IMHO this happens too often and too much on random. Like, there is the chance that one can be interrupted after one or two crafting actions, a minimum number (~20) of actions should be guaranteed.

Magic
Magic learning system and levelling up in magic is (insert condemning word here) currently. Another case of kaputtreparieren...

[Cabbage]

Nothing to do with goods
Hmm, farming the NPCs is nothing I'd call bad. IMHO, this should be expanded even more. Like, one being able to sell all stuff somewhere, maybe even being motivated to travel to certain places where one gets more money from a NPC, is that a bad idea? What I think is the problem here: One is forced to a) craft thousands of items to level up b) craft the same items because they are the only ones the local NPC buys. Changing a) and b) is the way to go.

This gave me an idea.

Why not set a Smither, a Carpenter, and a few other skill-oriented NPCs in each town that all would give prices and sell certain objects, but would all BUY everything craftable in that skill table, but at different prices? That way, a smith making.. say.. Elven Swords and one making Helmets might have to sell their things to different cities because of the prices? Not only that, but have some NPCs sell objects for a lower price than what other bought? That way people could even establish trading routes with those fancy new moocows.

Even bring back something like the old Eliza system for a general wares store where people can sell their fish, farmed produce, and other things that aren't necessarily related to a large sector of the crafting system. So even those with odd-jobs can bring home the bacon.

Also, take out the buy-limits and put in supply and demand between the cities.

I win. <3

[Misjbar]

I disagree with the whole trading between NPCs thing. Goodbye roleplay at all?

[Cabbage]

I will dump my spare crafted goods next to your feet and then beg you for coins.

[Julius]

Powergaming is probably the most boring thing you can possibly do in this game. The number one thing I hate about is the High Powered Tank Bandit that I, who plays a good aliened character, have to stop. Which in turn makes me have to powergame so that I can save my rp of my character not being a wuss.

"Your a disgrace as a member of the Knighthood (when he was," was a normal quote I heard ig when my char was beaten by a bandit. Nah. I just don't choose to pg and stay in town for more then 4 min of rp a day other the banditing. Dantagons idea of rewarding skill for rp was the closest idea I've seen to resolve this problem, though then would we have RP Powergamers?

[Cabbage]

Raheem, you know what I hate? A high powered tank knight in shining armor that wants to gang rape me at first sight.

Soz, I win.

[Julius]

I don't even know you.

And for gawd sakes, for the last time I am Michael. I'M NOT RAHEEM? k?

Thx.

[Cabbage]

Kay Raheem

[Julius]

K whatever.

I'm tired of your little immature remarks and shit. No one wants you here, just leave. Seriously gtfo.

[Cabbage]

^

That's what I don't like about Illarion.






Fix pls.

[Llama]

I disagree with the whole trading between NPCs thing. Goodbye roleplay at all?

Ok, how many pairs of shoes do you want to buy? What about a cloak and a shirt? Who wears shirts nowadays?

And josh, can you PLEASE

SHUT UP... you're annoying me, and that takes a lot of effort.

Can someone hit him with the banhammer?

[Cabbage]

At least I'm partially contributing to this post.