"oops I missed" fighting system interrupt

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:41 am

Basically I realize that fighting is extremely boring in some cases, and is definately a pg'er paradise right now. Why not even it up by introducing some fighting system interrupts to keep people on their toes? Crafters have to endure this, I don't see why fighters shouldn't. Slight deterrent to powergaming, at least people won't be so afk like when fighting. On the flip side, maybe npc's could have this too and loose an attack? Might as well try to make it a little more interesting.

Taeryon Silverlight · Post by **Taeryon Silverlight** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:45 am

I'd say make the number of spawning monsters randomly. (Like, you kill one monster and it's possible that there will spawn 1 - 5 new one after some time, not the same number all the time)

That would put a bit more excitement into the fighting stuff and the warriors would have to watch out, so that they don't get killed while they're eating or so

Ziel Oden · Post by **Ziel Oden** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:49 am

Fighting is boring. I loved it when skills were just determined if you wanted to learn them, not dedicate yourself to them. Byron, when playing around with the crafting systems a long time ago, was a farmer. He mastered farming in under a week. Note, I was a powergamer (and still am considered one) so in reality, a good player could of became a grand-master in a few weeks. Now it's just you HAVE to CONSTANTLY do whatever you want to gain skill in, or you're just not going to be able to compete with older players.

I don't give a damn what Nitram/Vilarion/Keikan/Martin/Jesus Christ/God/Satan/Wiccan Gods/Buddha says. The time to gain 'levels' should be SIGNIFICANTLY reduced. It's much like runescape now - Tons of Skills, so much time to get better in them. People spend HOURS and DAYS worth of times to better themselves on that game and that is, quickly, what Illarion has became. From my experience, I would assume the devs are increasing time to deter power gamers, but what they really hurt was the people who aren't willing to work their asses off for medicore talent.

I hated the new crafting system when it came out. The entire reason I don't even want to bother making a good, long lasting, plot bound character is because (especially in Orcin terms) you're likely to be killed. All those HOURS, DAYS, and WEEKS of training to make a technically respectable character would be wasted.

I
Hate
That
Damn
Crafting
System

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:12 am

"I want to learn everything" *poof* I hated everyone being a master of everything like it was before. I played with 1 week mastersmiths AFTER the 10x system and mastered smithing. Guess what? You establish a reputation, business contacts, suppliers, workers. The experience of going from a halfling begging for money for seeds to plant to one of the richest chars and a good blacksmith is great! I guess if you can't roleplay till you got teh_uberskillz you need to bleed your ego a bit. So mop the poop deck ya scallywag.

@Taeryon's idea
Not a bad idea, but then you have pigs and sheep like that too. XD I guess its not so nice for noobie fighters.
This wasn't what my topic was about anyway, I put it in the open proposal forum so if someone had some negatatives I hadn't thought of, they could point that out.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:24 am

well, i think, that the main problem with fighting is, that there are a couple of players, who let their char specialize in fighting, because crafting seems too complicated for them.
but, if we are honest, fighting skills are near to useless in illarion.

a fighter, who once masterd the scells simply has to be bored. there is nothing more to do for him. (save, become a robber and spoil the fun of others)

i don't think, the way fighters train, or level has to be changed, but the challenges they can face have to be boosted.

Ziel Oden · Post by **Ziel Oden** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:27 am

Korm Kormsen wrote:(save, become a robber and spoil the fun of others)

Fear is rarely an emotion expressed in Illarion. If a character has a reason to run, dear be it, it's a revolution.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:03 am

Korm Kormsen wrote:a fighter, who once masterd the scells simply has to be bored. there is nothing more to do for him. (save, become a robber and spoil the fun of others)

. Demon skeletons
. Golems
. Ogres
. Trolls
. Dragons
. Floating skulls
. Lesser Demons
. Rotworms
. Greater Demons
. Beholders

There's some things that the fighter can train for. I'd like to see some of these implemented in places at some point. e.g. dragons at dragon lair.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:32 am

*spoiling ig informations* there is a dragon in the lair.

Post by **Jupiter** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:51 pm

AlexRose wrote: . Demon skeletons
. Golems
. Ogres
. Trolls
. Dragons
. Floating skulls
. Lesser Demons
. Rotworms
. Greater Demons
. Beholders

There's some things that the fighter can train for. I'd like to see some of these implemented in places at some point. e.g. dragons at dragon lair.

Oh....sorry I am not sure about that.
Lets stay by dragons as an exampel.

One char can't kill a dragon.

But a group can it and that's fine, beacuse so the chars have to work together.
But I am pretty sure, dragons would drop allot of nice items and some silver, so I am afraid that there will be instaed of powergame chars, powergame groups.

Do you understand what I mean?

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:05 pm

Contrary to the common belief, a "oops I missed" system has been present in the fighting system for a long time now. It's called death.

Dash · Post by **Dash** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:43 pm

Perma Death!

And i would love big groups of fighting, just cause you can't rp that doesn't mean everyone can't.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:52 pm

Fear is rarely an emotion expressed in Illarion. If a character has a reason to run, dear be it, it's a revolution.

fine! so everybody has to run...
...if he is not too laggy.

how long, do you think, will players be willing, to let their char run twice or more often a day?

i think, within of a short time, the hack 'n slashers will be alone.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:07 pm

all the fighting system needs, is more focus on skill. Gear seems to be extremely more important than fighting skill.

Taliss Kazzxs · Post by **Taliss Kazzxs** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:11 pm

I agree, and doge simply is not as good as it should be.

Dash · Post by **Dash** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:15 pm

yah, i agree too. Dodge should be better... gear should help but not determine how good you are

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:15 pm

Please don't add more PG protection, there's enough as it is.

Dash · Post by **Dash** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:19 pm

Lance is just jealous of my good looks.

Thanseus Valerian · Post by **Thanseus Valerian** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:30 pm

kann jhemand übersetzen?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:26 am

Wearing leather my char dodges skellys almost everytime, I don't know what game you guys are playing.

Taeryon Silverlight · Post by **Taeryon Silverlight** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:52 am

Thanseus Valerian wrote:kann jhemand übersetzen?

Im großen und ganzen gehts darum dass Kämpfen im Moment anscheinend zu langweilig für manche Leute ist. Außerdem finden ein paar dass die Skills wichtiger und die Ausrüstung unwichtiger werden sollten.

Rosendil · Post by **Rosendil** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:59 pm

Ziel Oden, that's what I tried to tell the people and the dev's in many of my last posts ... (see thread powergaming). Not only fighting is boring, crafting is boring too ... Powergaming is made a main concept of this game, which does not match the other main concept of this game: role playing ...

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:02 pm

And what would be a non-boring fighting/crafting system...?

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:03 pm

1. monsters dont interrupt
2. you have lag
3. go to the yellow cross...

And since the new crafting system, crafting is everything else than boring.

Rosendil · Post by **Rosendil** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:01 pm

From a technical view, the new crafting system is much better ... from the role playing / anti powergaming view nothing has changed much.

Crafting is boring because you have to produce unrealistic amounts of goods (pg!) to become a good crafter ...

In my opinion crafting and fighting would be more interesting if it would play the 2nd role in Illarion and if it would be more realistic (maybe perma-death, hard wounded characters might not be able to recover within minutes instead within some weeks; realistic amounts of goods to be crafted daily; "realistic" skill gain per day or week,...)

Post by **Nitram** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:17 pm

You should keep in mind that Illarion is a game and not the real world.

At the first point it has to be fun. And its no fun if i want to play a warrior, get beaten up first day by something and can't fight the next 3 weeks because i'm resting in hospital.

Same with the crafting system. It has to be fun. The whole cycled work stuff would be unneeded if we want it realistic. Thats only in to make it easier to handle and more fun.

Keep that in mind.
Nitram

Rosendil · Post by **Rosendil** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:46 pm

Thanks for reminding me, Nitram.

But that was not the point ... maybe I am intentionally mistunderstood.

I agree ... the game should be fun ... but is it really fun producing mass useless items or fight mass monsters to get a little skill gain?

It might be fun in a "normal" game, but not in a mainly role play oriented game.

It's only an old man's opinion ... nevertheless I like that game with it's (in my opinion) weakenings.

Post by **Nitram** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:50 pm

The point is, if its really easy to gain skill ( like it was in the very former times, when you get the grandmaster in all skills within a day ) everyone is able to do everything in a perfect way.

There are no more characters who can do one thing or another thing. Everyone can do everything.

Is it that what you want?

Nitram

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:19 am

Hense a class system?

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:58 am

A class system, i am sure some people would object to, but i like the idea myself. Join the crafts together in 2 or 3 and give each one some type of fighting, since most smiths could use the blades they crafted, and everyone can learn to swing some form of weapon. how about these? just as ideas
Mining/Smithing
Lumberjacking/Carpentry
Farming/Cooking
and if someone else can finish the list it would be helpful lol, i am to tired to try and think about it. Even if they DO introduce a class system, the time for gaining skill should be the same, maybe a little lower. How long would it actually take someone starting out at knowing only how to smelt ore into iron to learn how to make plate armor, much less the more advanced armors and weapons? Even though it seems like a long time to gain a skill, even in a game based on RP, i think it works great, and you can master a trade alot quicker than someone out here in the real world could. This also balances with the RP quite well, as you get interupted like anyone else would, thus taking even longer to master your proffesion. It also keeps, like has been stated before, everyone from being able to make everything and trade drops to 0.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:41 am

Unrealistic? I'll tell you whats unrealistic, being able to craft a full suit of armor in less than a RL month from iron ore and coal in this game.

It would suck sooo much if this game was realistic for craftsman, you would need lots of years of your RL to get your char good at anything.