The recent Lich quest.

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Mon May 14, 2007 11:52 pm

Would it have been any fun if people just ctrl+clicked the lich and he dies and everybody leaves?

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:22 am

abcfantasy wrote:Would it have been any fun if people just ctrl+clicked the lich and he dies and everybody leaves?

Yes

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:24 am

I doubt it would have been for many of the players.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:26 am

Then why even ask the question!?

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Tue May 15, 2007 12:30 am

To point out that letting the lich die when the chars attacked would be no fun.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Tue May 15, 2007 1:57 am

everytime a baddy shows up "heros" pop up like mushrooms too and ctrl-click the baddy to death

Agreed

the invulnerable baddy isn't a good solution in my opinion, for he is aware of his invulnerability and treats even the fiercest warriors, armed to their teeth, like they were little girls throwing flowers at him...

That is a misuse of power. I know you were on your break..or at least not using the forum name Berengar or the character. Retlak(remember him Berengar

??) attacked town with undeads. The PO knew he could overpower the town but instead he did not want to do that, he gave them a chance. If a person plays like their character cannot be killed, they should not be playing a character with that strength.

You saying this made me realize the reason the bad characters always end up gone within a month or two of showing their "bad" side. I think it is quests where the GM goes into the quest saying...lets make this lich die in this way that make all the players of good characters say.."Oh another bad guy, well, there must be a way to kill him." It reminds me of the Private messages I got saying I have to have a certain "bad" character of mine permakilled. Which wasn't the case. It just proved that some quests get people into a certain mentality about how to dispose of every "bad" character. I also noticed that making a "bad" character is now almost impossible with the number of yellow-ctrl clicking-"good" fighters. Unless the players of "bad" characters learn to act good at first then turn around later.. anyways, thats enough of this rant for now.

Dravish · Post by **Dravish** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:02 am

Its quite simple.

If the evil bad guy is defeatable by heavily armed PC's. Then you have no quest.

The heavily armed PC's even if not seen for a year shall appear out of nowhere with no reason and slay the NPC trying to formulate the quest. Its called Illarion, it has always been this way.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:10 am

i miss huge long salathe verse dravish battles, that were all over the place and werent in just one spot.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:25 am

Dravish wrote: If the evil bad guy is defeatable by heavily armed PC's. Then you have no quest.

I disagree, the bad guy shouldn't be walking around the place where all these PC's live. Its like going into a police station and telling them your going to shoot them, not very well thought out I'd say, no offence.

Gabon Corad · Post by **Gabon Corad** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:25 am

the thing with these lich battles is once you've been involved in one the rest of them are the same idea...and the town always wins. I was very new when the whole northrot was made and i didnt really understand it but from everything i have learned about it, it sounds like it was great. Maybe try something with out scores of undead. Something with out just small bandit parties raiding non stop. What i think is needed is a true "town on town" battle. Two places fighting over territory...riches...naked women...something that doesnt include the use of undead controlled by a GM char who only gets beat because ether to many people start winning about the quest or he/she gets tired of playing that role. Im not sure what could spawn a ture all out town on town war but i turly think that if there were two preaty equilly split sides....the whole island against a corrupt leader of trollsbane hoding a great army of the best soldiers trying to conquest the whole island...or something of that nature....just an idea

Manron · Post by **Manron** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:56 am

Verzeih wenn ich das mal so sage PO Samantha, aber es kotzt mich wirklich an den ganzen Bullshit zu lesen den du jedes mal schreibst wenn irgendwas nicht so läuft wie du es willst! Ich war bei dem Quest dabei, nur als Beobachter aus sicherer Entfernung, aber ich habe den größten Teil mitbekommen!
Es regt mich langsam wirklich auf das du dich jedes mal beschwerst! Verdammt nochmal das ist ein Spiel das Spass machen soll, wenn es dir keinen Spass macht, dann bleib bei Pen und Paper oder wie das heißt! Du flamest hier immer alles voll und sagst dies und das! Machs doch besser wenn du so Intelligent bist, wenn du so ein guter RPer bist, dann rechne in Illarion mit ALLEM und bei einem Lich damit, das du gekillt wirst wenn du ihm auf die Nüsse gehst. Hör auf mit dem scheiss gespame und beschwerden, es interessiert niemanden, NIEMANDEN! Du nervst damit nur alle Leute und es is jedes mal dasselbe, ein groß angekündigter Quest kommt, du warst dabei und keine 2 minuten nachdem der Quest vorbei ist, regst du dich auf, weil irgendwas nicht so gelaufen ist wie du es dir vorgestellt hast. Wenn du immer solche Probleme hast, das es nicht nach deiner Pfeife geht, dann mach bei dem Quest nicht mit.
Nein, das geht natürlich nicht, die große Samantha kann doch dort nicht fehlen, jeder soll sehen wie ich mich in den Kampf stürze und jeder soll sehen wieviel Mut ich beweisen kann. Gut, deinen Mut hast du bewiesen, dann rechne aber auch mit den Folgen. Meine "bösen" Chars spiele ich auch nicht anders als der Lich heute gespielt wurde, geht mir wer auf die Nüsse, wird er gekillt, sofern das alles korrekt abläuft. Es steigt nicht jeder auf dein RP ein nur weil du nen guten Char hast. Also hör auf dich immer auszuheulen, weil es nervt wirklich, ich denke wir haben im Allgemeinem Forum schon genug Threads wo du deine beschwerden äußerst und wünscht das es besser gemacht wird.
Mach es besser, ganz einfach, wenn dus nicht besser kannst, beschwer dich nicht und spiel das Spiel welches uns die Gm´s schon seit fast 6 Jahren geschenkt haben und werde glücklich.
Ansonsten, du weißt wo der Off-Topic bereich ist um Lebewohl zu sagen!

Das wars von mir, einem wirklich genervten PO.

Enwell van Illdoran · Post by **Enwell van Illdoran** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:55 am

Manron, so sehr viele hier deine ansicht vielleicht teilen mögen, wobei ich mcih selbst grade nciht dazuzählen möchte, bitte lösch den post..

ich möchte den topic nicht geschlossen haben..

Arien Edhel · Post by **Arien Edhel** » Tue May 15, 2007 7:55 am

Jetzt haben wohl alle Luft abgelassen und damit ist Ruhe im Hühnerstall!

Ich überlege mir noch, ob ich bei künftigen Quests ausser sachlicher Kritik alles andere an Geflame - gegen wen oder von wem auch immer - nicht einfach kommentarlos lösche.

Dravish · Post by **Dravish** » Tue May 15, 2007 9:26 am

I agree in some ways Grobul, but people keep confusion Illarion with real life, i shall never understand this. I could quite easily take most the arguements on this board and reply with '' Ive powergammed my skills the most, so i deserve to be the hero '' But i shant as i know this isnt what is meant by all, by the players should try to see matters in the light im going to qrite below, this is not gospel. Im no GM, its just the way in which i like to see the game :

Character Skills, ie Magery, Slashing, Parry : All skills which should be used for minions, minor NPC's and to settle PvP situations, not main factors within a quest.

And what i mean by this is follows

QNPC : In this case our Lich
NPC : The little brat who he wants
Minion : Zombie
Players

At the top of the chain is the key figure for the quest. The figure which holds all the quest together. This figure should be untouchable by normal shift click responses, with a special weakness prepare in advance if one is needed. This allows all players to get involved in quests, not just the ones who have the time to powergame. The powergamers in general rule most of the isle, they need not rule the quests also.

All those below our key figure are freshmeat for the players to slice and dice as they see fit. But please dont complain when you can not PK the key figure within the quest. If this were the case do you the players think you would get any quests? Think about it

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:49 pm

how about making quests more complex?

if, for instance, there would be an artifact somewhere. (a weapon, an armour or so - might be even a special music instrument) and the holder/finder of this artifact is the only person, able to kill the chief-evil-char of the quest.

it would take time and efforts, to find out, who found/has that artifact.
meanwhile the heroes could get any amount of minions to slay.

Dravish · Post by **Dravish** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:52 pm

Precisely Korm, this has been tried.

And in these instances there have been complaints that a single person slew the creature *winks*

Berengar · Post by **Berengar** » Tue May 15, 2007 8:10 pm

Sorry if anyone should feel insulted by the sarcastic part of my last post, didn't mean to

Dravish wrote:Its quite simple.

If the evil bad guy is defeatable by heavily armed PC's. Then you have no quest.

The heavily armed PC's even if not seen for a year shall appear out of nowhere with no reason and slay the NPC trying to formulate the quest. Its called Illarion, it has always been this way.

I agree

but there should still be limits for the questchar. On the one hand this game has moved in a direction where a single PC is quite lost in combat, no matter if fighting (powerful) NPC's or other PC's, but on the other hand questchars are excluded from that innovation.

That is a misuse of power. I know you were on your break..or at least not using the forum name Berengar or the character. Retlak(remember him Berengar ??) attacked town with undeads. The PO knew he could overpower the town but instead he did not want to do that, he gave them a chance. If a person plays like their character cannot be killed, they should not be playing a character with that strength.

I don't think it is a misuse of power, or "bad roleplay", but to me it seems that questchars are often so focused on playing their story the way it has planned to be played that they hardly leave any room for variation. The questchar might have expected about 5-10 chars at the grey rose castle and maybe wanted to show those few, weak mortals how mighty he his, frighten them and force them to hand back his silversword. However, at the castle the united army of 3 cities had gathered awaiting the lich, so the "frightening them"-part without any backup seemed a little ridiculous to me.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Wed May 16, 2007 4:08 am

I don't think it is a misuse of power, or "bad roleplay", but to me it seems that questchars are often so focused on playing their story the way it has planned to be played that they hardly leave any room for variation. The questchar might have expected about 5-10 chars at the grey rose castle and maybe wanted to show those few, weak mortals how mighty he his, frighten them and force them to hand back his silversword. However, at the castle the united army of 3 cities had gathered awaiting the lich, so the "frightening them"-part without any backup seemed a little ridiculous to me.

This may be true that this happened, but I recall a certain Pendar walking into town with to confront a certain lich and a few people on the lich's side. That certain Pendar walked into town alone. What you described happened on both sides.

Berengar · Post by **Berengar** » Wed May 16, 2007 10:32 pm

@Lrmy:

But it isn't possible on both sides, system-wise... Pendar confronts lich+his fellas on his own; Pendar attacks/gets attacked lich+fellas; Pendar dies.

Questchar confronts army; Questchar attacks/gets attacked; Questchar isn't even scratched and could annihilate a whole army on his own, if he liked to...

To point that out again in order to prevent discussing in circles

:I do agree that questchars need to be stronger than player chars to be able to build up the story of a quest, but they shouldn't be invulnerable in my opinion (e.g. 5 times stronger than a normal char would be enough)

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Wed May 16, 2007 10:46 pm

Sometimes however you must admit that it can't be helped alot of times Quest characters are made so strong to keep the hack N slashers from stopping a plot from unfolding.

I personally favor quest characters that are passively pushed, i.e. having increased constitution and defensive skills, but having only abit above average or just average offensive skills. Then so long as everyone stays relitively under control even if a few people try to end the fun for others it won't be the end of the world.

Remember a simple point. most quest characters aren't pushed for pwnage(of course there are exceptions), they're pushed to protect themselves from the players. It just so happens that alot of times the only way to get through to a group of players bantering about killing you is to lay some pain on them

Most often a quest character that get beaten even once will never be taken seriously after that

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Thu May 17, 2007 12:12 am

Most quest characters that really get "beaten" once are out of the game (ending their quest).

Lianis · Post by **Lianis** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:41 am

Very, very few quest characters are 'ultra-pushed' anymore. They are given high but not unbeatable defense, and slightly lower offense generally. Yes, chances are one character won't be able to take a questchar down, no matter how good the character... but three or five decent character could, if they fight together intelligently.

Thorvald · Post by **Thorvald** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:43 pm

For everyone who thinks the Quest ended with this attack: No, no.

For everyone who thought the attack was rather short: You were lucky that in the background certain people came to an agreement with Vartaroth. Or it wouldn't have been such a short fight. There happened a lot more afterwards too.

But you will find out sooner or later..

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:06 pm

I feel so left out *cryies in a corner*

Thorvald · Post by **Thorvald** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:11 pm

It's hard to involve 50 players in *one* Quest. But don't worry. Every players time will come sooner or later

(Might be a threat or a promise, depends on you.)

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Sat May 19, 2007 12:22 am

Weeeeell, the nice lich can come to ava for help and stuff like that since he has some experiece with the undead lol

When will the quest continue?

Siltaris · Post by **Siltaris** » Sat May 19, 2007 1:27 am

I liked the Quest today a lot. It was very good that we knew when it will start (forget about the GMT+problems) and the attack was nice.
Hope that Questers are happy, too with what we decided to do.

Looing forward to the next official round of this Quest

Gryphius · Post by **Gryphius** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:33 am

I very much enjoyed it too, although it happened on a completely different place. I like the idea of the story having several simultaneous plotlines - that greatly adds to the scale. Compliments!

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:46 am

I think the quest I had enjoyed most was the 'executioner' quest, it was run by players, no GM stuff whatsoever, and he gave us a big mystery to work on (a bag full of items).

Anyone care to tell me how that ended up? I'm still dying of curiosity

Elian · Post by **Elian** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:56 am

I also liked the quest, and especially its timing ;) At the same week the Silver Sword was founded. Gave the mercenaries some work and a good start to forge themselves a name. Also, it was generally fun.