I quit this game

[Aristeaus]

Though i can see why people dislike Samantha and the PO behind

i think such a mansion is...was...very fitting for a char like Samantha. After all she is a powerful and rich mage, the magistrate of a town and a former duchess from salkamaer. why should she not have such a mansion? but of course others can't accept if someone has more than themselfs. i worked hard with samantha to achieve what she achieved in this game.

IMO you dont deserve the inn for such reasons, more than alot of other players, but thats just me.

You do come across quite stuck up Patric.

But on the other hand.

Martin you left no option for Samantha or other to save the building. The insurance was expected to be turned down, which could have led to the starting of the fire. But any fire when found in its early stages can be extinguished.

So yes, it was definately an unfair action IMO. Yet on the other hand many others have had alot more nonsense than this to deal with and kept it to themselves and private discussions with the staff. I dont see why this could not be the case here. Patric knew what he was doing when he made this post.

If he meant to just tell people he were leaving he would have, but instead he knowingly started another flamewar upon the Forums. Which definately is not needed, and IMO uncalled for also.

[Llama]

Suggestion:

Keywords - GM castle, fire insurance

[Elian]

Time to add my two cents in.

Martin, you say you wanted to test that 'new' feature of burning buildings. Isn't there a test server for this? Isn't there a few dozens of other buildings around Gobaith, that aren't owned by anyone, and that no one would get SO ticked OOC to see burn?

Was burning Samantha's house really done for roleplay? Roleplay is meant to be fun, the player is meant to enjoy it. Now don't be ridicule, you KNEW that PO Samantha wouldn't like it, yet you did it. If it's the fact that PO Samantha owns that place, and you wouldn't want a single player to own such a big building, I'm sure you could've talked to him privately.

I mean come on, it's just obvious it was done for OOC feelings, seriously.

Though, what I can tell Patric is; Stay. If they're doing that to make you run away, then you're letting them win the war. Hey, Lady Meryadeles is stronger than a few staff members with parlor tricks, is she not? ;) Really. Stay. IF they persecute you again, stay. And again, stay. They delete all your items, stay. Because then, you'll know that they're doing that just to make you go away from your own will, since they got no reason to ban you.

Don't let them win, and stay. You roleplay because you LIKE to roleplay with your friends and such. Not because you want to own all the houses and such. You shouldn't care about that. You're here to roleplay, and enjoy your time doing so. Even if they DELETED Samantha, you shouldn't care, not let them win the war, and create a new char, and have as much, if not more fun than you had on Samantha.

Perseverance is they key to victory.

[Taeryon Silverlight]

Das ist komplett lächerlich. Das Inn sollte ohne Diskussion wieder kostenlos für Sam aufgebaut werden. Es ist klar, dass 90% des Staffs Patric nicht leiden können und dann passiert sowas. Ich meine ich kann für alle sprechen wenn ich sage, dass wir allen GMs, Questern, Devis und was es noch alles gibt sehr dankbar für ihre investierte Zeit und alles sind, aber es kann nicht angehen, dass ab jetzt jeder GM einfach mal den Besitz eines Chars zerstört, dessen PO er nicht mag, nur weil er es für witzig hält und dem PO damit eins auswischen kann ohne dafür bestraft zu werden. Es ist einfach nur unfair.

Edit: To start a topic was the only chance, not to be ignored by the staff, since I can hardly believe, that a gm abuse would have helped. But this way, all the active players, who are not green-eyed help Patric. And that's just right.

[Miklorius]

Well, I have to admit that it annoys me, too, when Samantha (or PO) put her into the centre of the action too often. And I also don't like it that one private persons owns the biggest house in town. But that's personal stuff which shouldn't really hit the RP.

But this seems to has happened when the Seahorse was burnt down by GMs/devs with no real possibility to extinct the fire (funny that the doors are now still locked. And the Sahorse wasn't the "best" choice for a fast spreading fire).

A new fire feature is nice if it will be used properly (will there be now pyromaniacs around who collect protection money!?).
But just destroy a player's house without any real warning is just abusing GM powers.
There is a testserver for testing new features - but it seems to me that in the last weeks some devs prefer releasing new imbalanced features to the main server and then non-stop-debugging it there...

Yes, it is just a game. And it was just a house of one player (which IMO has - besides the money and prestige value - less IG-importance than some uber-weapons). And yes, Illarion is free and maintained by the makers for nothing.

But when the makers really want a big user base with satisfied players than they shoud avoid the impression that players are just "toys" for the devs (clarification: I don't think this is the case!).

Okay, so let's calm down and enjoy playing again... And hopefully such GM "derailments" won't happen again.

[Vilarion]

Alright, my only official statement after so many wrong statements:

Why not test it on the testserver?
It was tested there, balanced and whatever. There were stages in the development when all of Trolls Bane was burned down as well as the southern woods and other parts on the map from a single fire near the pigs.

Why THIS house?
Simple: The player of THIS house was online when the script was finished after about a month of developing. To say that it was planned all along to hit her in special after all that time is just ridiculous. Maybe the time was not the best, but then: Why should we treat this char any different from others just because he complains the most? It would have been rather boring as well to burn parts of some wood and nobody really cares. All the discussion about revenge, teaching a lesson, "put your formulation here", earned it or not is rather pointless. Whoever arguments on a personal level like that and posts things like "But maybe one day in life we meet again , THEN you can show me if you are really a man with guts. Since i will for sure test it." or in my msn: "... du kannst sehr froh sein das du nicht in reichweitemeiner hände bist...denn...mit ganzem ernst...ich würde dich sonst gerade würgen..und ich fürchte ich würde nicht so schnell damit aufhören" should maybe reconsider his or her attitude.

Why spawn flames?
This is simply wrong. The script is self extending. We made some campfires outside which have some chance to extend to other burnable objects.

Why spread it every 2 seconds?
This is simply a lie. It spreads only every 30 seconds and then with a low probability. But cs goes first, maybe. Of course, after some point in time it is too late to stop the fire entirely.

Why don't you develop something nicer than fires?
The most interesting part of fires was the mechanism to make these fires spread by themselves. This is not as easy to do as with illnesses. Maybe technical aspects should not go first but then again: Regardless of what we do, be it fires, be it a great crafting system, be it magic, be it priest magic: There will always be flames about everything, sometimes more sometimes less. The only thing I developed which was not flamed about was the !bag command (which seems to be bugged right now).

Did I forget anything?
Maybe.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Yes, telling the truth. but oh right, you don't do. lieing is so much easier.

[Elian]

Alright, my only official statement after so many wrong statements:

Why not test it on the testserver?
It was tested there, balanced and whatever. There were stages in the development when all of Trolls Bane was burned down as well as the southern woods and other parts on the map from a single fire near the pigs.

I'm pretty sure new features most of the time were tested on the server, and that's the way it should be. Especially 'balancing' scripts. I've ran, hosted, and staffed on many games, and scripts are thoroughly tested before being released into the world where players are.

Why THIS house?
Simple: The player of THIS house was online when the script was finished after about a month of developing. To say that it was planned all along to hit her in special after all that time is just ridiculous. Maybe the time was not the best, but then: Why should we treat this char any different from others just because he complains the most? It would have been rather boring as well to burn parts of some wood and nobody really cares.

Actually, there was also Dusty, and other leaders of other towns. I'm pretty sure you could have chosen anyone else. You could also have burnt something that is not the property of a player? Such as TB's shop? The jail? Something? It sure would have been fun, and not boring.

Why spawn flames?
This is simply wrong. The script is self extending. We made some campfires outside which have some chance to extend to other burnable objects.

Why make those fires outside the Seahorse inn?

Why spread it every 2 seconds?
This is simply a lie. It spreads only every 30 seconds and then with a low probability. But cs goes first, maybe. Of course, after some point in time it is too late to stop the fire entirely.

This actually proves you KNEW they had NO chance of fighting the fire off. You did it anyways.

Why don't you develop something nicer than fires?
The most interesting part of fires was the mechanism to make these fires spread by themselves. This is not as easy to do as with illnesses. Maybe technical aspects should not go first but then again: Regardless of what we do, be it fires, be it a great crafting system, be it magic, be it priest magic: There will always be flames about everything, sometimes more sometimes less. The only thing I developed which was not flamed about was the !bag command (which seems to be bugged right now).

Yes, the !bag command is very nice.. Thanks.


I'm considering the fact that you didn't mean it specifically against PO Samantha, but you still can't admit you did a mistake, and all that could have been avoided if you had tested it on the test server, or not on someone's private home.

[Alytys Lamar]

Personal attack isn't the way to solve a problem Patric (( and all others which meaning to know all and attacking in personality ))

I suggest only the Char's which was involved in this burning accident or whatsoever should starting to discuss, but please in a calm and fair way.

This thread destroys the fun of a lot of players... and I can't believe this is your intention Patric

[Llama]

Question:

How did the GMS INTEND for the thing to end?

a) Samantha puts the fire out?
b) The inn gets burnt down?

If it was a, you could have used a more important building, and it'd be questy

if it was b, then it was unfair on patric

[Elian]

Anyways, it seems the staff are discussing it, and perhaps that can be dealt with easily.
I like the staff, and am thankful for the roleplaying environment they offer us, but I still think that sometimes, everyone can do mistakes, and instead of ignoring your mistakes, and pretending you're perfect, halts improvement, which is rather unwanted.

Also, even if I understand why Patric can be mad now, I still think he should try and keep a temper.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Why THIS house?
Simple: The player of THIS house was online when the script was finished after about a month of developing. To say that it was planned all along to hit her in special after all that time is just ridiculous.

Interesting, so why was Martin posting before this: "Anyway, this didn't happen "out of a mood", it was largely planned." . that sounded for me like it was largely planned to do it with my house.


also, here the log of the happenings:

w:Lady Samantha Meryadeles: *she frowns as she hears the sound of a fire*<-- samantha heard the sound of a campfire lightened.

w:Tanaki Kai: ((Oh what the hell))<-- the next moment (a few seconds later) she and tanaki saw flames appearing downstairs. two at that moment
Lady Samantha Meryadeles sniffs carefully and sighs
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: Please excuseme
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: that idiot...i warned him
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: Du öffnest die Tür. <--- right after we saw the flames i rped how samantha reacts on that and went downstairs.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles looks at the flames and raises her hand<--- when i was downstairs there were already 10 or more flames inside the mainroom. she started immediatelly to put them out. samantha needed two spells to extinct one bulk of flames
Tanaki Kai blinks
Lady Samantha Meryadeles beginnt mit einer mystischen Formel.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: [anc] RA TAH DUN
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: Der Spruch würde hier keinen Effekt erzeugen
Lady Samantha Meryadeles beginnt mit einer mystischen Formel.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: [anc] RA TAH DUN
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: Du fühlst wie der Trank deine Konzentration wieder steigert
Lady Samantha Meryadeles beginnt mit einer mystischen Formel.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: [anc] RA TAH DUN
Lady Samantha Meryadeles beginnt mit einer mystischen Formel.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: [anc] RA TAH DUN
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: Du fühlst wie der Trank deine Konzentration wieder steigert
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: Iwill burn him down!
Lady Samantha Meryadeles beginnt mit einer mystischen Formel.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: [anc] RA TAH DUN
Lady Samantha Meryadeles beginnt mit einer mystischen Formel.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: [anc] RA TAH DUN
Du hörst: samantha, help! <-- while samantha was downstairs putting flames out they spreaded already upstairs and sourrounded tanaki there
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: (8okay...this ois stupid..stop it))
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: (8i just put the flames off, and now you make them appear out of nowhere?)) <-- At this moment it become ridicoulous. i were able to put the flames inside the mainroom out, but right after 20 mire appeared around me. all i tried was useless
Du hörst: I am on the balcony
Du hörst: I am totally surrounded
S:Du hörst: Samantha?
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: I come!
Tanaki Kai: Help
S:Du hörst: Are you inside?
Lady Samantha Meryadeles beginnt mit einer mystischen Formel. <-- Samantha went upstairs to rescue Tanaki. when i came upstairs the whole floor was already at flame. she casted to make the way free, seeing no chance to stop the flames.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: [anc] RA TAH DUN
Tanaki Kai: Jorokar, get water!
Lady Samantha Meryadeles beginnt mit einer mystischen Formel.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: [anc] RA TAH DUN
Tanaki Kai: Get more people
Du hörst: Water, right, water.
Jemand rushes away.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: Du fühlst wie der Trank deine Konzentration wieder steigert
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: come, i open us a portal on the roof
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: Tanaki!
Tanaki Kai grabs some things
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: ((okay...sorry...but this is stupid...))
Lady Samantha Meryadeles beginnt mit einer mystischen Formel.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: [anc] RA TAH DUN
Lady Samantha Meryadeles beginnt mit einer mystischen Formel.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: [anc] RA TAH
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: Der Spruch würde hier keinen Effekt erzeugen
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: to the roof!
Lady Samantha Meryadeles beginnt mit einer mystischen Formel.
Lady Samantha Meryadeles: Trollsbane!<-- samantha had to flee since the whole building was already at fire. she teleported near the seahorse, and when she walked up to it it was sourrounded by flames and burning. the next moment the flames were gone and the house ruined.

Does this look like i had any real chance? i think not. i went downstrairs right after i saw the flames. i started putting them off with the best spell for it. while i was still doing that the fire spreaded upstrais and on the roof. right after i finally put off the flames downstairs, twice as much appeared again, and the floor upstairs was aswell covered into 20 or more flames. most of them behind shut doors which i couldnt open immediatelly.
someone who had to get a bucket and put of the fire would have even less chance then samantha. in the time he needs to get a bucket, get water, and come back to put the flame out 20 new flames appeared. and the same amount once he comes back the second time.
its simply ridiculous. especially when we remember that EVERYONE can start such wildfires through making campfires inside towns or near buildings.
there is no time to react, no time for proper roleplay, and no chance to stop the flames. martin and vilarion knew that very well, after all they scripted it and tested it on the testserver. but still they went to my house, from all the peoples being ingame, and set it aflame. in the middle of night. it was 1:30 am for me, AND for them. 1:30 am.
and by the way, the flames spreaded right after the first campfiresound which i were able to hear. RIGHT after. the two told me there is a 1 % chance that a campfire starts to be a wildfire. shall i really belief that you made the first fire and, gotcha, hit the wildfire? or that you made a few dozen campfires? i dont think so.
you simply purposely destroyed the seahorse mansion, knowing that i will have NO chance. knowing that the building will be burned out and ruined. knowing that i, as a player, wont like seeing the house getting destroyed. you knew pretty well how it will piss me off. but you haven't cared. no, you had fun doing that to me.
at least you had the fun, right? you, the staff, and not the player whose house you destroyed ingame.

[Miklorius]

Why spawn flames?
This is simply wrong. The script is self extending. We made some campfires outside which have some chance to extend to other burnable objects.

Are there different flash points for items (e.g. item X needs to be in fire for X seconds, item Y needs Y minutes) or is it either burnable or not burnable?

[Nitram]

Are there different flash points for items (e.g. item X needs to be in fire for X seconds, item Y needs Y minutes) or is it either burnable or not burnable?

I think there is just a list, burnable and not burnable

[Japheth]

It's very unusual for Martin or Vilarion to do something in a malicious manner, so I'm likely to believe what they have written as the truth. They're frequently the most reasonable members of staff and Martin is usually the first to admit when he's done something questionable.

It's unfortunate that a player was caught up in this incident and that their character's home was burned down. In hindsight, I suppose, it would have been a more suitable roleplay and fairer to all players, if a public building like the shop had been burned out.

Anyway..nifty feature, I suppose.

[Christiana]

nothing hurts more than humiliation and a little money loss

[Elian]

Are there different flash points for items (e.g. item X needs to be in fire for X seconds, item Y needs Y minutes) or is it either burnable or not burnable?

I think there is just a list, burnable and not burnable

And everything in Samantha's house somehow happened to be on that list?

[Nitram]

Are there different flash points for items (e.g. item X needs to be in fire for X seconds, item Y needs Y minutes) or is it either burnable or not burnable?

I think there is just a list, burnable and not burnable

And everything in Samantha's house somehow happened to be on that list?

wooden table, wooden seats, beds made of wood and cloth, pictures ( i think ) made of wood and pergament, chests made of wood

wood, cloth and pergaments burns really good. Please don't try this at home without a good possibility to but the fire out, else your home could suffer the same destiny as the Seahorse.

Thats at least all that comes into my mind currently. Sorry in case i forgot something.

Nitram

[Lennier]

It seems like the fire deletes all items at a tile, if there is any burnable item. Therefore some walls also would get removed, if at the same tile was an other item (tables, chests, wall decoration).

[Nitram]

It seems like the fire deletes all items at a tile, if there is any burnable item. Therefore some walls also would get removed, if at the same tile was an other item (tables, chests, wall decoration).

correct. But that makes the damage of the burning even more realistic.

[Enwell van Illdoran]

All the discussion about revenge, teaching a lesson, "put your formulation here", earned it or not is rather pointless.

I put in martins formulation in the IRC:

"This was about teaching Patric how it feels if you dont always win and loose instead"

WEll something that way..That about right guys?

The game authorities are starting to teach lessons to players? Lessons to PLAYERS (not to chars) TO PLAYERS?!?!

I mean who the f*** do y'all think you are?

[Nitram]

The game authorities are starting to teach lessons to players? Lessons to PLAYERS (not to chars) TO PLAYERS?!?!

You should think about what you are writing.

In case we went to Patrics home and burn down his house, then we would teach the player a lesson.

But we burned down a virtual house that belongs to his character. The damaged house is stored on a server he does not own, in a game he didn't create.

So if we feel teached and offended by the burning of his house he does nothing but mixing IG and OOC.

Nitram

[Taeryon Silverlight]

Actually, Martin and Vilarion mixed up ooc. and ig., when they burned down Samantha's house because they didn't like Patric, or at least thought, that PATRIC would need to be tought a lesson

[nmaguire]

Please don't try this at home without a good possibility to but the fire out, else your home could suffer the same destiny as the Seahorse.

You could have told me earlier

[Nitram]

Actually, Martin and Vilarion mixed up ooc. and ig., when they burned down Samantha's house because they didn't like Patric, or at least thought, that PATRIC would need to be tought a lesson

Developers allways mix up OOC and IG when the put in and show new developments of the game. Because their characters can't know about the possibility.

[Alytys Lamar]

Actually, Martin and Vilarion mixed up ooc. and ig., when they burned down Samantha's house because they didn't like Patric, or at least thought, that PATRIC would need to be tought a lesson

You are willing to start the flame again ? Writing this private presumptions ? What a bullshit....

Only Patric, the staff members and maybe the Char's which was directly involved have the right to clear up this now..

SO.. I beg you shut up !

[Lamar]

Verkneif dir solche Posts in Zukunft die nichts als Ärger provizieren. Du bist in die Situation nicht involviert also halte dich raus.

Nitram

[Senrin der Ältere]

To the fire thing, there should be graphics of burned earth, wood, etc and parquett should burn as well.
It sound quite interessting.
Then to the Seahorse. When I read this topic, I thought "Wtf? The GMs burned down the house of Lady Sam? Without asking her before?"
But then I watched it ingame and nearly all walles as well as the parquett and some items are still there...
That could have been much worse. Lady Sam should be happy that the Seahorse didn't burn down...

[AlexRose]

Actually, Martin and Vilarion mixed up ooc. and ig., when they burned down Samantha's house because they didn't like Patric, or at least thought, that PATRIC would need to be tought a lesson

You are willing to start the flame again ? Writing this private presumptions ? What a bullshit....

Only Patric, the staff members and maybe the Char's which was directly involved have the right to clear up this now..

SO.. I beg you shut up !

So, in a murder court case, only the killer has the right to speak?

People have been given evidence and statements from both sides and have the right to speak their own minds, whether it be for the staff or against. And you're actually being downright rude. People are entitled to their opinions.

As for this: Having read Samantha's logs I do find this incredulous. You knew it worked, so what; you had to burn someone's mansion to show it works? If the point was to affect people; WHY BURN THE LOCKED MANSION? To say "It could be YOU next time?" I personally think that's a bad message to give off. Had you done it at a weekend with a lot of people around at the shop, people would have been trapped and everyone would have got buckets and the town would pay together to have it fixed. Everyone ingame would be shocked and most would help finance the repairs. But to attack a hated character's home... who would care? "Oh, Samantha's house burned down". "About time". As opposed to: "Did you hear?! Troll's Bane shop burned down! Several were badly burnt and the whole place is a ruin! I just hope Eliza's okay." "Yeah, maybe we can put some money towards the repair".

Which is the best case scenario?

Duly yours,
~A. Rose~

[Halvdan]

Ganz recht, Lamar. Wenn man sich als einer der reichsten Chars der Insel anpisst, nur weil man ein wenig Geld in die Reparatur stecken muss, dann kann man dem Spieler auch nich mehr helfen, dann soll er halt aufhören. Und was soll ein Spieler sagen, der alles andere als reich ist und durch einen Serverabsturz stundenlange harte Arbeit verliert? Ich mein Meryadeles könnte sich auf Ex und Hopp schnell alles kaufen...und gearbeitet hat sie sowieso nie, und andere mussten alles neu erarbeiten.