Monster drops.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:12 pm

I know devs have other things to work on, but I feel this should be looked into.

Skeletons, Ogres, and Trolls all drop about the same amount of coins. Ogres and Trolls are much harder to kill(at least twice as hard). For a warrior to make money off fighting all they can do is fight skeletons witch give you almost no chance of death and you can kill faster then other stronger things. Gnolls drop no coins and only drop old bad swords(sometimes) and a piece of cooked meat.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:14 pm

I doubt Ogres and trolls would have any use of carrying money around with them; while people would have been buried with some coins and some of their possessions, which is why skeletons have coins.

(This is my interpretation)

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:15 pm

Then Ogres and Trolls should drop something you can actually use or sell. There has to be other things worth killing than skeletons.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:35 pm

As far as I remember, the quality of troll+ogre drops is higher than the quality of skeleton drops. Blame the identification system if you don't notice the difference - as we all know or should know, items of slightly below average quality are labelled with nice words like "crappy", "very bad" and so on.

I will have a look into this, for I assigned the monster drop for most monsters. I followed the guidance that monsters should drop stuff fitting them, so ogres drop clubs and such while skeletons drop swords.

By the way, if you want to get something out of monsters, compete with demons or dragons. They drop all the items you want to have... Don't blame me if you a) cannot find any advanced monsters on the map b) go down in 3 seconds, fighting with an advanced monster.

Concerning the fact that one cannot sell stuff dropped by many types of monsters, I'd suggest to change the traders instead of the monsters, no?

Concerning gnolls: One of my major goals while assigning the monster drops was that every mudane item is dropped at least by one type of monster. Even artifacts are dropped by monsters at low rates. So, gnolls, as hunters and meat eaters, where my choice for meat and such.

Please keep in mind that this game is not about loot in the first place. There will be always a best way to make money out of fighting, currently, skeletons are. As long as many monster races are ununsed or unuseable, and the traders keep buying only chosen items, it will remain this way.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:51 pm

Hmm....

As a trader, I have a few words.

Weapons that are below average are generally useless. Shields, horned helms and daggers are the same, junk. Why are they even dropped? Now, if fighters would pick up such things as cloth, ink, parchment, they have some value, but not much really.

I have noticed though, that the drops by the monsters are not even 'average' items. Why is this?

The exceptions I have seen are Fire Axes, Ebony bows and few minor items, probably from those demons and dragons you speak of.

Shouldn't a warrior, through fame and plunder, have the chance to get such things as healing potions, Scrolls, Antidotes, Wind potions, Rings, or even Silver coins from Skeletons?

From Ogres, which live in 'ore rich' mountains by the way, it would make sense for them to carry Gold ore, cause it's 'shiny'. What a difference that would make in getting Gold ore!

From Trolls, which live in the deepest woods, wouldn't it make sense if they carried a 'medicine' bag of Red Heads & Firnis Blossom, or even healing potions?

I also noticed a Stone Golem in my trek through the mountains. I hope they at least drop valuable gems and ores!

The point is, all the 'good' stuff is gained through crafting. Crafts have been done for ages, and many monsters should 'drop' good 'crafted' items that may have been around or that they once made when they were alive. Warriors should have a good chance, through fighting, to obtain these without having to be a craftsman too.

If warriors could get items that only average or even advanced craftsamen and mages can make, I think Fighting would be more lucrative than it is now.

Thanks
~PO Dusty Bottoms

Post by **Jupiter** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:56 pm

Äm...I agree with Dusty in all points.

Grivijak · Post by **Grivijak** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:58 pm

There should be a concentration on Risk = Reward with the minor monsters.

(Obviously dragons, demons etc do give great rewards

But ogres can be challenging at times, and they drop virtually nothing.

Meaning one less npc used on the map.

Pia Dandelion · Post by **Pia Dandelion** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:20 pm

Greetings,

monster should only drop things that they are carrying around. Everything else that they might have collected should be in the treasure in the cave, dungeon, room, etc. where the monster does come from.
Skeletons, zombies and mummies should only drop items which they had "on" their corpses when burried. This includes armour, jewelery, shields or weapons. They certainly do not carry coins with them. If not made of special material (e.g. gold, jewels, etc.) or being magical the objects they carry will be rotten as well.
Other creatures which encounter adventurers of all kind, such as Ogre and Trolls, may have looted their poor victims and kept some things for whatever reason (Well, who does really know what goes on their minds anyway). So there is a chance that they may carry some of the loot with them but most of it is probably hidden somewhere. The quality of the drops will vary greatly.

Just my two Euros.

Kind regards

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:23 pm

Thats very true.

Personally i'd prefer it if you DO end up finding a cave full of ogres, you beat everything up and you take all the stuff in it.

There's no reason why an ogre would walk around with small change, and where on earth is it supposed to hold it anyway ?

(No pockets)

However, the poor devs have enough to do without having to script a no-rot code for certain items in certain locations so you can get all this, so monster drops will have to do for now

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:50 pm

Well don't you get more skill from fighting ogres then?

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:52 pm

AlexRose wrote:Well don't you get more skill from fighting ogres then?

Then you get more skill, and you can fight stronger opponents, which drop less stuff...

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:00 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
AlexRose wrote:Well don't you get more skill from fighting ogres then?
Then you get more skill, and you can fight stronger opponents, which drop less stuff...

No, you get more skill so then you can go BACK to the skeletons and you'll be able to kill more of them and get more money

. Or then you could train up till you could fight demon skeletons then go and fight them and get even more money. I bet if I played a fighter and was into the whole powergaming scene I could get up to the demon skellies

. Course, that'll never happen as I'd never do anything but rp in illa :/ .

Grivijak · Post by **Grivijak** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:07 pm

I bet if I played a fighter and was into the whole powergaming scene I could get up to the demon skellies Wink . Course, that'll never happen as I'd never do anything but rp in illa :/ .

Virtually impossible unless you powergame many many many hours a day, skill capping many times over a period of many months, Due to the current learning rate of fighting skills.

But anyway...

Here is an interesting issue.

It can be roleplayed that the ogres for instance, drop good numbers of coins because that is the section of the cave they are guarding, that has the loot.

otherwise we could just use the runescape system and have items that actually spawn on the ground after 10 odd minutes or so.. and by then you would have to fight many npcs which can prevent noobs hanging around.

Jori · Post by **Jori** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:29 pm

Hmm, looks like this thread is going the same way as the wrestling one and a few others I've seen: a debate between realisticness and balance. Personally I think that since it is in fact a game, we should go more for what balances things and try to find some reasonable rp reason for what happens. I'm not saying totally get rid of realism, but make it so there is something useful to be gained from fighting the stronger monsters. I think the best way to change this would be to allow one or two traders to buy items that you get from ogre drops. The thing is that craftsmen don't have to worry about not being able to sell their wares to the NPC because they choose what they make. We, as fighters, can't do that because the drops are random. Another way to adjust this might be to make it so each monster has an item with about a 5-10% drop chance that sells for a modest amount of coins (6-10 coppers say?) so that way you don't get fighters with massive amounts of loot and insane amounts of money but they are still able to get some cash from fighting ogres and trolls and such. It seems like things have changed in the year and a half I was away from illa--Back then, at least for my character, skeletons were much harder than ogres

I have to say I think that if ogres and trolls are more powerful now then I think that is a change for the better, much more realistic. And now if we could just be able to sell stuff from them...

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:54 pm

I suggest a solution:

Bounty Hunters

An NPC who will pay you for every ogre you kill and bring back proof of killing (they should drop something useless).

Its a good compromise where the creature wouldn't normally drop any cash

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:57 pm

Not bad idea. Me likes.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:00 pm

What about this one : Monsters collect the items that are dropped by adventurers when these got killed in monster territory.
This way, you always have a nifty loot chance in tougher monsters.

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:04 pm

Damien wrote:What about this one : Monsters collect the items that are dropped by adventurers when these got killed in monster territory.
This way, you always have a nifty loot chance in tougher monsters.

that would be great...but isn't there the problem that the items a monster is carrying will be wiped out when server crashes?

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:17 pm

abcfantasy wrote:
Damien wrote:What about this one : Monsters collect the items that are dropped by adventurers when these got killed in monster territory.
This way, you always have a nifty loot chance in tougher monsters.

that would be great...but isn't there the problem that the items a monster is carrying will be wiped out when server crashes?

Pwnt

Grivijak · Post by **Grivijak** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:18 pm

hopefully one day, there will not be server crashes often

Oh wow, i just fought a magic resistant golem with a very strong swordsman and a strong char. Not only did it cost us like 5 silvers in potions, and a very hard struggle, but after 10 minutes of fighting and almost dying, we get the almighty 5 silvers of shit... which we lost in the first place.

Another less npc used on the map

These are things you have to avoid.

my two pound coins.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:01 am

We also got a diamond....

And I don't remember who wrote this was about realism, but this simply isn't the case. The fact is...

Skeletons drop 2-39 coins. Ogres and trolls seem to drop 10-30. No other monster worth getting to and fighting without a very strong group is going to give you anything. There should be a risk/reward factor in all monsters(exept pigs and the such).

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:23 am

Liches, boy those babys really put out if you know what I mean.

You have to get through an entire castle of baddies though.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:40 am

Gro'bul wrote:Liches, boy those babys really put out if you know what I mean. You have to get through an entire castle of baddies though.

How do you think the Temple got so damn rich?

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:36 pm

The stronger monsters get, the better the quality. Mummies and skeletons are not very strong, thus, bad quality. Demons and dragons are strong, thus, best quality. Everything else is in between.

btw, fighting is the fastes way making money. Every n00b can kill mummies and skeletons are not that much stronger. You can make decent money, ask a crafter how many months he needs to make the same amount of money.

Trolls drop herbs, don't they?

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:43 pm

Estralis Seborian wrote: Trolls drop herbs, don't they?

Yes, herbs that you can get in 4 seconds in Troll's Bane.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:21 pm

So, I had a look at Gnolls and Ogres. Ogres drop around the same amount of money as skeletons, the reason for this is that the amount dropped by skellis was raised in the past. The only change I'd do is to lower this amount, but I doubt anyone wants this, no?

Gnolls drop fine weapons, with average and even above average quality if you're lucky. Please note that the durability is another value than the quality. Quality affects the fighting stats while durability affects the time until a weapon breaks. If weapons break, that is... .

I also roamed the island and searched for monsters. I did not find any advanced monsters anywhere, nothing worth attacking except some demon skeletons. Maybe I was searching in the wrong spot, but where did all the rotworms, floating skulls and demons go?

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:22 pm

Just for the record, weapons do break.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:36 pm

Mr. Cromwell wrote:Just for the record, weapons do break.

Only if you live long enough. With a quite good scraped magical longsword, its gotton down to rusty after like 1500+ npc's killed.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:02 pm

If I understand the code right, the chance for a weapon to drop in durability during a hit is 0.00666%. WTF?! Can't evaluate the value for armor, depends on too many values.

On topic:

There should be a risk/reward factor in all monsters

Tell me for which monsters this does not hold. OK, the reward for skellis is too high compared to other monsters, do not take them as guidance.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:49 pm

Estralis Seborian wrote: I also roamed the island and searched for monsters. I did not find any advanced monsters anywhere, nothing worth attacking except some demon skeletons. Maybe I was searching in the wrong spot, but where did all the rotworms, floating skulls and demons go?

If I remember correctly, there are a couple of dungeons in the works that should introduce some higher monsters than the demon skeletons.

Hellbriar is being redone with monsters and there is also one being planned for the desert. (I think)