Good/Evil/All Between

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:40 pm

Rasteel Olin wrote:Meriel Pelith owns all.

She doesn't need magic to effect you

You take a -10 on perception for attacking her

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:05 pm

Hence why I as of this post I will finally cease to frequent the forums in any manner.
Really no one here wants a solution, what is good and evil who cares?
What i think of your character is immaterial in relation to how our characters interact.
Good rp or evil rp becomes nearly immaterial if all that can be achieved is little clouds and skills losses, that really dont matter.

Good and evil = conflict Illarion does not in its present state have a mechanism or a player base that wish conflict to find resolution. Look at the last war on silverbrand, Stephen Rothman or the temple. Nothing could be done to take a town, stop a faction or kill an enemy.

So really what is the point of having PVP if death is only a small road bump to a character. Role playing will only degenerate as more players come to Illarion with no rp background and learn from a world where you get clouded and laugh it off.
Was fun, now I am moving on
Brian

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:26 pm

Evil characters are needed, with or without quests

right!

i dont plan, to play evil/bad chars. but without them all i could do ingame would be raise cabbages and kick rabbits.

edit:

i forgot... i could join the cyberclub...

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:18 am

I'll make this as short as I can.

-Evil is necessary, just as necessary as good is.
-I agree that we should have some kind of death punishment system, the reviving at the cross repeatedly thing is not so good. And I mean for both sides, not just good, not just evil.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:21 am

Well, OT: Having a -75% HP cap for X period would make returning from cross pretty futile..

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:22 am

cromwell's idea was great! or maybe they would have like 5 or 10% health, and will take quite some time before starting to regenerate again (maybe even hours so that the char will stop fighting for a while)

Rasteel Olin · Post by **Rasteel Olin** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:29 am

Yup I like the idea.
And healing potions or such should have no effect.

BLEH! One more script for the poor devs >_>

Alytys Lamar · Post by **Alytys Lamar** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:36 am

I like Edwards Idea really, it gives many room for good RP

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:52 am

i would like to give an even harder idea:

once you got clouded, the normal regeneration does not work.

the only thing starting health and restoring normal regeneration should be
continuous or repeated attention by a medic/druid.

maybe in that form, that a druid "beats" the patient with a special tool, that does not substract points, but adds them.
(if that "tool" would be rechargeable, a lot of chars would be occupied by a single clouding)

Rasteel Olin · Post by **Rasteel Olin** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:55 am

Ah, great idea Korm.. But keep it on the thread I created ... So staff can actually regroup all ideas together..

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:06 am

Siltaris · Post by **Siltaris** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:37 am

if nalzaxx does not consider his char as being evil, I wonder who he would call as being evil instead?

However, this discussion seems to be fruitless to me, since we are talking about attitudes and values. You can never reach consens in these kind of things.

In the end it depends on the chars if they consider someone as being evil. And instead of discussing here, you should make it with your chars ig, imo - and act!

EDIT: and please watch your language and do not blame someone because he thinks different. Finally, DO something by yourself to get Illarion back on the right way!

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:38 am

still, define evil...

Siltaris · Post by **Siltaris** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:44 am

Evil cannot be defined, since it depends on values and attitudes every person has.

Examples:
1. You cannot talk about why you love someone and another does not.
2. You cannot find consens which political party is best, because you have personal feelings and attitudes for special parties! It is exactly the same.

So discussing about what is evil and waht is good will never lead to consens.

Define for each of your chars what he/she thinks is evil and what he/she thinks is good. Then play the char the way you think is best. But play and do not always talk about stuff in forum and do not act ig then.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:47 am

After much thinking for hours upon weeks and stress and mathmatical formulas and laws of physics, i have come up with the final conclusion:

There is not Evil Or good, it is just different lifestyles.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:50 am

In RL there is no human that can possible be good or evil, in illarion there can be no good, but maybe evil if there are inhuman creatures that do not hold humanlike feelings.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 am

if they do not have humanlike feelings, they can not be evil. then they only can be dangerous.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:57 am

Something with humanlike feeling cannot be good or evil either, because NO ONE does bad actions because they think it is bad, they only do it out of selfishness to get personnal advantages, even the doers do not even understand that. Same for good actions, EVERY good actions a person makes is only for the person's gain, and as such no one is 'good', everyone is selfish, and I do not mean that there any exceptions, just give me any example and I can explain.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:58 am

Terrorists.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:00 am

Retlak wrote: There is not Evil Or good, it is just different lifestyles.

What a pile of nonsense

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:00 am

Retlak wrote:Terrorists.

Terrorists do not even know they are doing bad actions, they are doing it for their religion usually because they think it will make their god happy and make them go to some sort of 'paradise', selfishness again.

Siltaris · Post by **Siltaris** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:00 am

Terrorists think they do something good for their family/culture/god.
A better life is waiting for them after they have died.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:03 am

Something Patric normally says wrote:
Retlak wrote: There is not Evil Or good, it is just different lifestyles.
What a pile of nonsense

Nonsence??!! prove me wrong!

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:10 am

since centuries, what one side sees as terrorists, the other side sees as heroes or freedomfighters.

but back to illarion.

you want an example? here we go!

one of my new chars got clouded. due to the lovely bug he stood naked.
another char, that never #i-ed gave to my char food and a woodaxe.
i still ignore, who he was.

i can see nothing selfish in that.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:26 am

The feeling of self satisfaction and the feeling of doing a good actions, the main reason most people do 'good' actions is this, or to make the person liking you better.

If there was a person you knew, and that person wanted a certain item, lets say food. If that person would be happy that you give him/her food, but would hate you in return and you knew that, you would not give that person food even if you knew it would be a good action.

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:18 am

There is no true good and evil, like Retti said.
There are just personalities.
And those personalities get put in groups by other personalities.
And all these things are a matter of perspective.

A character may think/say another is evil, being evil is just a rating, one that you can't truely define.
And since you can't define it there is no true evil, only evil in the perspectives of others.

Life is a matter of perspective and taste, as is good and evil.
If I think that some music is bad, doesn't mean every person rates it like that.

Open up your minds people, your way isn't the only way, neither is mine, neither is anyone's.

Evil is just a brand one can give another.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:41 am

Cuthalion wrote:still, define evil...

Are you taking my job?

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:45 am

<< Google definition for evil >>

<< Wikipedia definition for evil >>

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:57 am

Evil is sometimes defined as the absence of a good which could and should be present; the absence of which is a void in what should be. In most cultures, the word is used to describe acts, thoughts, and ideas which are thought to (either directly or causally) bring about affliction and death — the opposite of goodness, which itself refers to aspects which are life-affirming, peaceful, and constructive.

So a paladin who slays necromancers is evil...

the wiki defenition stinks

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:01 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
Evil is sometimes defined as the absence of a good which could and should be present; the absence of which is a void in what should be.

If the paladin kills the necromancer for good, that that's no evil, there is good in his action.

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
In most cultures, the word is used to describe acts, thoughts, and ideas which are thought to (either directly or causally) bring about affliction and death — the opposite of goodness, which itself refers to aspects which are life-affirming, peaceful, and constructive.

and again, the idea behind killing a necromancer is perhaps to stop him from causing any more deaths to others