Suggestion for death

Rasteel Olin · Post by **Rasteel Olin** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:23 am

Simple.
After (a certain number of) deaths, player is perma-dead.
OR
Skills go back to 0.

Discuss. WITH NO, 'EFFIN FLAMING! Please! That's too good of a suggestion for the thread to be locked due to flaming.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:26 am

LOL

I like it, amazingly. It makes perfect sence.

Rasteel Olin · Post by **Rasteel Olin** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:27 am

sense*

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:31 am

I on the other hand hate it. What about lag deaths? What about the already amazing amount of time you have to spend to gain skills in the first place?

The idea of death should be to prevent akward roleplaying sitiuations and create new ones, not to piss off, frustrate and waste the time of people behind the screen.

I like my temporary health punishment better.

Rasteel Olin · Post by **Rasteel Olin** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:38 am

Mr. Cromwell wrote:I on the other hand hate it. What about lag deaths?

That is why there is 'a certain number of deaths'

Mr. Cromwell wrote: What about the already amazing amount of time you have to spend to gain skills in the first place?

That's the point of death, you should be -very- afraid to die.

Mr. Cromwell wrote:The idea of death should be to prevent akward roleplaying sitiuations and create new ones, not to piss off, frustrate and waste the time of people behind the screen.

Not really, the idea of death is to try and limit the number of kamikazee suicidal fighters, who have no fears nor flaws.

Mr. Cromwell wrote:I like my temporary health punishment better.

Now now, I was hoping I'd see a little more evilness emanating from Mr. Cromwell.. Tsk..

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:39 am

I likes diz

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:44 am

Besides, nothing at all prevents anyone from killing his own character off at the event of game engine death. However, under no circumstances should this be forced upon other players by average players. My character is mine, and hence I should call the shots regarding to his continued existance or lack of that. I don't like the idea, not at all.

Just my two cents.

EDIT:
The point of death should be that character is afraid. The point shouldn't be making me frustrated or waste my time.

Samantha Meryadeles · Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:46 am

I likes diz

no wonder you like it. you trained in 3 weeks skills up for which other needed 3 month. its not fun training and playing a char for many month and than have him permakilled and start from the scratch. and others need alot of time for that, not just a few weeks.

EDIT:
The point of death should be that character is afraid. The point shouldn't be making me frustrated or waste my time.

true true. such a death system would frustrate me enough to stop playing. i hate skilling, and i hate it if i have to train and work for weeks and month for stuff i already got once.

Rasteel Olin · Post by **Rasteel Olin** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:48 am

Samantha, please, I'll ask you to delete your post. I asked for NO flaming, please, respect that. I respect you, and never flame at you, please do me that favor and don't post the trigger that would engender this thread as another flamewar.. thanks..

Cromwell, yeah I agree.. Though the problem is that really, there's too much fearless chars, and as someone else said, death is becoming like a roadbump to most..

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:57 am

A nice way to get more people to leave

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:00 am

Perhaps we should make a set number of times you can die in a set time period, after the time period is over, the number of times you can die is reset to the original number. That way, people will be careful enough to not act like suicidal maniacs, as there is still the chance of perma-death, but we don't have the fighters hiding under the bed covers either.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:02 am

Rasteel Olin wrote:Samantha, please, I'll ask you to delete your post. I asked for NO flaming, please, respect that. I respect you, and never flame at you, please do me that favor and don't post the trigger that would engender this thread as another flamewar.. thanks..

Cromwell, yeah I agree.. Though the problem is that really, there's too much fearless chars, and as someone else said, death is becoming like a roadbump to most..

Well, I think of "death" in game terms as.. Well, incapacitating combat wound. And have roleplayed it as such in most ocasions (Okay, I admit. Not when I lag-died in a duel.. I should have, but I was too tired and pissed off that time).

Usually it means (as in every other "roleplayed" injury..) that Edward lays low for a couple of RL-days, resting and not training or being an asshole. Having a -75% health cap would force characters into doing just that for some time. Maybe 8 online hours/3 offline days? That would effectively force them to be less agressive if only for the duration of the "injury"..

Then we could maybe finally stop wasting the player's time with regaining the skill and other nonsense like that (because that is a very unfair punishment anyway - It hurts those characters who have less maxed out stats* much more than those that have better stats) and focus on roleplaying the sitiuation accordingly.

*And hence have to rely more on the skill and equipment, both of which they lose in dying. Though I don't complain about the loss of latter, really.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:02 am

eh... it would have to be over a certain amount of time. X amount of deaths each month. It would be retarded to be around for years and years, and not even be a fighter, than die after 3 or so years of gameplay due to deaths in quests/lag/robbed any add up of random deaths. Or even for a fighter, who is killed a small amount of times, all being for very unimportant minor events, having all his skills gone after years.

So as long as there is a factor of time in this, that would be reasonable. So if someone is killed so many times they have to dissapear to recover

Kaila Galathil Travinus · Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:04 am

Mr. Cromwell wrote:Besides, nothing at all prevents anyone from killing his own character off at the event of game engine death. However, under no circumstances should this be forced upon other players by average players. My character is mine, and hence I should call the shots regarding to his continued existance or lack of that. I don't like the idea, not at all.

Just my two cents.

EDIT:
The point of death should be that character is afraid. The point shouldn't be making me frustrated or waste my time.

I agree and think most PO's don't want to ghost their chars. If there are a few that seem to ignore this system and don't seem to care about being ghosted multiple times, set up a new rule for ghosting. If a char is ghosted over a certain amount, say two or three in a certain length of time, that char would have to stay out of the game for a week or so.

edited after reading recent posts, I like the idea of a low health for a day or so....it would also offer some good RP opportunites

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:51 am

I had a sudden memory...

This idea of losing skills after a certain amount of deaths, i now have to agree that this would be very frustrating.

This occured to me, when it did actually happen to me, when someone deleted Retlak (it was not me i swear) After a good year of gaining the skills he rightfully had. Since then i feel quite bad about losing the work so suddenly. especially now as the learning system is either bugged or extremely slow past level 50.

Its something that could make people leave the game.

Rasteel Olin · Post by **Rasteel Olin** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:53 am

Then I like the idea of having 1/4 of health only for at least 10 online-hours.

Alytys Lamar · Post by **Alytys Lamar** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:56 am

I like Edwards Idea really, it gives many room for good RP

This i wrote at the other thread, but think about only the Staff can making able this wishes, and all do this in her free time.

When you play consequent a situation ( wounded, healing whatsoever ) you can not running around and talking and fighting... you need time to heal.. that means RP, my opinion.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:59 am

Korm Kormsen wrote:i would like to give an even harder idea:

once you got clouded, the normal regeneration does not work.

the only thing starting health and restoring normal regeneration should be
continuous or repeated attention by a medic/druid.

maybe in that form, that a druid "beats" the patient with a special tool, that does not substract points, but adds them.
(if that "tool" would be rechargeable, a lot of chars would be occupied by a single clouding)

Actually, while not bad idea in it self, it's generally speaking bad to have something to rely entirely on player-to-player system.. At least with a playerbase as small as in Illarion. (Devious little buggers, those players

)

So instead I would rather incorporate it to my idea:
Having attendance of a druid/medico lessen the cap-time by couple hours. That way it would just be an encouragement to RP it out, and not something that is foced upon everyone..

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:01 am

i will repeat, what i just wrote in the other thread:

i would like to give an even harder idea:

once you got clouded, the normal regeneration does not work.

the only thing starting health and restoring normal regeneration should be
continuous or repeated attention by a medic/druid.

maybe in that form, that a druid "beats" the patient with a special tool, that does not substract points, but adds them.
(if that "tool" would be rechargeable, a lot of chars would be occupied by a single clouding)

and i got a question for all of you/us:

why is it such a tragedy, if a char looses skills?
this game has no end. it has no point to reach for winning.
you win through play.
so why not play?
a sportsman or soldier smitten to sickbed by injury needs first to cure, then to train again.
why would the same be so catastrophic in illarion?

---------------------

edit:

you beat me. i'm too slow.

So instead I would rather incorporate it to my idea:
Having attendance of a druid/medico lessen the cap-time by couple hours. That way it would just be an encouragement to RP it out, and not something that is foced upon everyone..

yes, good idea

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:08 am

why is it such a tragedy, if a char looses skills?

because it is a pain in the ass to get them. and most of us dont like skilling, or training his chars skills. it is simply frusttrating if you have to do something again you dont like, but have to do because its needed for your chars background.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:30 am

Salathe:

it would have to be over a certain amount of time.

to me that sounds good.

that would slow down the "crossrunners", but would not make damage, to a normally played char, being temporary unlucky.

------------

patrik,

please explain to me, what goals you have set for samantha.
i think she is nothing more, than some bits on a hard disk. - or in another sence, she is nothing more, than a tool for you, to have fun playing.

short: i think, she should be replacable for you. if she is not, i ask myself, if you are really playing, or what you are doing.

(my mainchar is clouded at the moment. for the third time, i think. and i am seriously thinking, if i let him perma die now, or if i wait the next time)

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:31 am

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:
why is it such a tragedy, if a char looses skills?
because it is a pain in the ass to get them. and most of us dont like skilling, or training his chars skills. it is simply frusttrating if you have to do something again you dont like, but have to do because its needed for your chars background.

I agree with him.
Think about a crafter as well. Well you are the only good smith on the island, but you died x times, so skill drain. Sorry, now you can't make short sword blades anymore.

And Korm, this is not real life. This is so far from it. It is a game, people die in games. You already loose items/skill for dieing. I think there is more a problem with killing than dieing. I think most people are all to happy to cloud some one. I for one only ctrl click some one untill they have #me'd they fall or if they run a certain distance. Who wants to spend hours doing the same thing over and over?

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:32 am

We do need something to make characters have a fear of death, and a 8 hours lower healt might prevent them from training for a while, but they wont be scared of it much, they can just start again to be fearless after the 8 hours. Even though this would help, it would not be sufficiant, there need something to affect over time or at least something that would be very annoying if you get clouded, this is something enormously important within the game but it seems developpers do not care about it. Its one of the main reason I left, this whole "everyone is fearless and couragerous" shit is getting overly annoying, and it DOES ruin the overall RP a good damn load and makes PvP a total joke.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:38 am

So a newb/new character that gets killed should get their health lowered? So what happens when a troll walks by them and kills them? lowered more? What if a newb attacked? lowered more? What if a bandit came? Lowered more? A quest? I mean come on...

What if there was a res killing moster? No gm around to help them? I know you would not just shrug it off if Arameh's skills were just dropped low because a demon skeleton from a quest killed him and res killed him. There is no way of looking at skills before they were decreased so a gm wont just say "Here is your skills back." Because you have no proof.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:39 am

there is a difference in making a char fearing death, and making a player fearing ingame death and becomming frustrated by it

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:42 am

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:there is a difference in making a char fearing death, and making a player fearing ingame death and becomming frustrated by it

I just want to add one more thing...

If a character does not fear death to an extent then the PO is not a good role player.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:43 am

Lrmy,

It is a game, people die in games.

yes. and we should let them die and rest in peace. ( if not after the first death, then maybe after the third or fifth)

we are some kind of gods. if we loose a "follower" we create a new one.
and if somebody is in love with his ageing crafter, he should take care, that he does not leave the house without a bodyguard.

i must think now about that short movie about roleplaying, where the two players flipped out totally, when their chars got killed...

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:45 am

There are no ways to make most characters fears death without their players fearing it currently, because too many people do not RP decently. About the skill loss...even if Arameh was one of the highest skilled character ever, I never disagreed with skill loss, because there is nearly always a way to avoid getting clouded, my characters all have been rather 'military' and in several conflicts but you can hardly say they were ever getting clouded, because I was putting some fear into them and making sure they dont rush stupidly like everyone do currently. Something needs to be done about it, but well, something needed to be done months ago about it and nothing happen, so dont be too optimist.

Siltaris · Post by **Siltaris** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 am

Instead of commenting every single comment of other people, maybe we should make suggestions.
Then, the staff has a look at all of them, picks out the five best ones, they think about what could work and make a vote then?

I like the idea of pendar (i think it was him):
deaths makes you unable to login with that char for certain time. If your char dies within the next 48 hours again, the he will not be able to login for 4 days etc.
Plus little skillloss. BUT: skillloss has either be minimised or chance of regaining skill should be raised imo.

That is what comes out of my brain at the moment

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:32 am

Lag happens, disconection happens and most importantly npcs are just there to be had fun with they change nothing. No death situation should involved npcs.
Npcs= you get clouded you lose or dont lose skills and items the end.

The importance needs to added to when a player kills a player.
"what about a dual/training"
hence there should be a command to actually -kill- or damage a character once it has been made a cloud. So it can never happen by mistake

Yes a character chopping my characters head off should always be a huge happening and have a large impact on my characters life and developement.
I no longer wished to play in a world, were i killed or was killed by my enemies and the attitude was "Ah another day another decapitation, want to come train those skills back Pendar?"
Dieing in PVP should be a huge thing, you fear and avoid it is vital to a game.
How people cant see that is a little confuseing to me, all that changed was we use to play it as a HUGE thing and thank Malachin for sending us back, praying we would never come that close to death again.
Then it became a case of oh i killed him cut his head off, ah well he will be back later-- oh look here he comes, propably wants his armor back--
Brian