Dear GMs

[Matholamew Dunsinane]

What the hell is wrong with the people making person attacks? Grow up.

Obnoxious little turd? I don't wanna flame, but that was pretty bad.


[edit]

I didn't think this one posted...sorry for the double post.

[Matholamew Dunsinane]

I agree as well

[Gildon]

Dear Staff,

ZING

You obnoxious little turd, they try to please the players yes, but in whole its not your game, it is thier game. They make mistakes yes. but i think you and others think you own the staff.

At first my view was with sams, thinking he was badly treated, but now youve all made me turn view against yours by the childish, immateaur. ungreatfull and moronic attitude to the game, and the staff and to the players who do not fit into your little cliche. So please go and stuff yourselfs

I know this isen't my game. I never once have ever thought somehting close to this. I simply was getting at the point that alot of people were saying some devs/gm don't seem to realize this game is for the players and that they are given a privlige. I also think the majority of the comunnity thinks Sam should infact not be perm banned for what he did and has done. The ones that think he should seem to have no valid argument. So yes, it is in the communitys best intrest not to ban him and to have a good role player back.

What the hell is wrong with the people making person attacks? Grow up.

I agree too.

[Retlak]

i agree

[Ghost_Archon]

Hmm.
yes
I agree

[Bumbol Woodstock]

1,2,3,7,8,9 are the rules I broke?

Lets go through them, as i am po stephen (they banned my garett gwenour account without stating why prior to it, oh well).

Rule 1) To keep ooc to a bare minimum and to promote roleplay. I think very few people can say I cannot roleplay or that i wander around talking leet. So this is either a blatent lie or a misused rule.

Rule 2) The only I did break and on accident, I simply did not think to erase Nitram's name in the log I posted though I did take care to not mention the player or the character when describing the incident. Nontheless, his fear was that if people knew his character everyone would try to talk to him ingame, I do not think any of this has happened, all that has occured is people realized his illegally pushed his private fighting character. And also lets not forget Nitram is not a GM but a Dev, as is Vilarion. That however has been argued and seemingly ignored.

Rule 3) Indeed I do insult people, however everyone insults people and I tend to balance my insults with going ingame and helping the noobs no one else seems to find time to do. When Stephen was governor I literally would log on and not be able to play with those I wanted because new players assumed I knew everything to the game, (This can be proven, just look through my logs or ask people who I had to tell on msn i couldn't join because some elfess wanted to know how to cut trees).

Rule 7) Player Killing... Right, I don't senselessly pk anyone. Stephen is a warrior/knight/warlord. People get in his way and he will push them out of his way, they stand once more in his way and he will cut them down, especially when he feels he can get away with it. That is roleplaying a bad character. So again, this rule should either be thrown out or a legitimate case where I logged on, killed someone and then logged out with no roleplay interaction at all can be brought up.

Rule Speaking ooc, another seemingly joke or blatent lie. When I speak ooc it is to a noob who refuses to stay still and thus wont hear a whisper. Unless Nitram wants to bring up the case where his pushed character, (i refuse to believe his story that Gerron was simply kept on "invisible" mode while he trained for a year and thus the only time we ever see him was when he was virtually unbeatable, it simply is not practable, if someone wants to play a regular character you don't start roleplaying when he is super strong), inwhich that was the only case and hardly calls for a perma ban.

Rule 9) Powergaming, right well I am pretty sure everyone has agreed powergaming is impossible to do now because of the skill cap. and generally I would feel powergaming would mean making a character that has no roleplay and as every character I had carried with them intense and deep roleplay to say I powergamed is again either a joke or a blatent lie. The only character with minimal roleplay and mostly training was the Black Hand of Retlak but this was because he was ment to be strong, however he did interact with characters in a distant way and again you cannot say it is powergaming because I couldn't train past the cap.

I don't expect to be unbanned but if your going to perma ban me and then state publically why i was banned (which i did not ask for you to do which I believe is against some privacy rule, certainly thalodos got that right and assumingly you would feel his crime was worse then mine) at least be honest about why you banned me, because you don't like someone who questions you and doesn't believe your BS and implausable lines.

xoxo
sam

[Gildon]

Yes, the staff shouldn't consider themselves "Kings of Illarion" and sort of awaiting the dreaded line-up of peasents coming with their questions.

'Peasents' start asking their questions ( players )

"Hey-"
"No"
"How did you d-"
"No."
"Why did you do th-"
"...Go away."
"Can I do th-"
"No."
"What happe-"
"Go away."



The 'kings' ( GM's ) wipe their foreheads after a hard days work of answering the questions

( The above was an exaguratted example of what really happens )

HEY! Before anyone flames me, not all GM's are like that, not at all! But some of them can be like that a lot! For example Nitram is nice to lots of people, and I'm sure he helps the game in many ways, but he and Markous just don't like my questions anymore >_> and are extremely unfair and give me invalid reasons for declining my requests or not answering my questions.

(they banned my garett gwenour account without stating why prior to it, oh well).

Is a great example of invalid reasoning from GM's in above post.

EDIT: By the way, the best and most fair GM's I know are Dei and Alison.

[Dónal Mason]

What the HELL is wrong with the staff? To what depths have you sunk? I don't like Grunt Senior, but even I can see this whole thing is a complete crock of shit. It reeks of personal agenda.

[Grant]

Yeah and it's the kind where your hungry and dipe your spoon into the crook of shit and can't cause it's seeming hot gm poo. Then you try to swallow it cause you havn't had anything for months but can't cause it stinks and taste like hot gm shit.

[Achae Eanstray]

1,2,3,7,8,9 are the rules I broke?

Lets go through them, as i am po stephen (they banned my garett gwenour account without stating why prior to it, oh well).

Rule 1) To keep ooc to a bare minimum and to promote roleplay. I think very few people can say I cannot roleplay or that i wander around talking leet. So this is either a blatent lie or a misused rule.

Rule 2) The only I did break and on accident, I simply did not think to erase Nitram's name in the log I posted though I did take care to not mention the player or the character when describing the incident. Nontheless, his fear was that if people knew his character everyone would try to talk to him ingame, I do not think any of this has happened, all that has occured is people realized his illegally pushed his private fighting character. And also lets not forget Nitram is not a GM but a Dev, as is Vilarion. That however has been argued and seemingly ignored.

Rule 3) Indeed I do insult people, however everyone insults people and I tend to balance my insults with going ingame and helping the noobs no one else seems to find time to do. When Stephen was governor I literally would log on and not be able to play with those I wanted because new players assumed I knew everything to the game, (This can be proven, just look through my logs or ask people who I had to tell on msn i couldn't join because some elfess wanted to know how to cut trees).

Rule 7) Player Killing... Right, I don't senselessly pk anyone. Stephen is a warrior/knight/warlord. People get in his way and he will push them out of his way, they stand once more in his way and he will cut them down, especially when he feels he can get away with it. That is roleplaying a bad character. So again, this rule should either be thrown out or a legitimate case where I logged on, killed someone and then logged out with no roleplay interaction at all can be brought up.

Rule Speaking ooc, another seemingly joke or blatent lie. When I speak ooc it is to a noob who refuses to stay still and thus wont hear a whisper. Unless Nitram wants to bring up the case where his pushed character, (i refuse to believe his story that Gerron was simply kept on "invisible" mode while he trained for a year and thus the only time we ever see him was when he was virtually unbeatable, it simply is not practable, if someone wants to play a regular character you don't start roleplaying when he is super strong), inwhich that was the only case and hardly calls for a perma ban.

Rule 9) Powergaming, right well I am pretty sure everyone has agreed powergaming is impossible to do now because of the skill cap. and generally I would feel powergaming would mean making a character that has no roleplay and as every character I had carried with them intense and deep roleplay to say I powergamed is again either a joke or a blatent lie. The only character with minimal roleplay and mostly training was the Black Hand of Retlak but this was because he was ment to be strong, however he did interact with characters in a distant way and again you cannot say it is powergaming because I couldn't train past the cap.

I don't expect to be unbanned but if your going to perma ban me and then state publically why i was banned (which i did not ask for you to do which I believe is against some privacy rule, certainly thalodos got that right and assumingly you would feel his crime was worse then mine) at least be honest about why you banned me, because you don't like someone who questions you and doesn't believe your BS and implausable lines.

xoxo
sam

I never did rp with stephen that much but am a little curious why his name was banned on the forum also. Just from my brief rp however I never saw him talking ooc except to inform Achae that he didn't ask her how her day was

Since there is so much consternation about the ban wouldn't it help to discuss it more publically with the other players, this could also help in understanding what is expected of the players and Gm's?

[AlexRose]

1,2,3,7,8,9 are the rules I broke?

Lets go through them, as i am po stephen (they banned my garett gwenour account without stating why prior to it, oh well).

Rule 1) To keep ooc to a bare minimum and to promote roleplay. I think very few people can say I cannot roleplay or that i wander around talking leet. So this is either a blatent lie or a misused rule.

Rule 2) The only I did break and on accident, I simply did not think to erase Nitram's name in the log I posted though I did take care to not mention the player or the character when describing the incident. Nontheless, his fear was that if people knew his character everyone would try to talk to him ingame, I do not think any of this has happened, all that has occured is people realized his illegally pushed his private fighting character. And also lets not forget Nitram is not a GM but a Dev, as is Vilarion. That however has been argued and seemingly ignored.

Rule 3) Indeed I do insult people, however everyone insults people and I tend to balance my insults with going ingame and helping the noobs no one else seems to find time to do. When Stephen was governor I literally would log on and not be able to play with those I wanted because new players assumed I knew everything to the game, (This can be proven, just look through my logs or ask people who I had to tell on msn i couldn't join because some elfess wanted to know how to cut trees).

Rule 7) Player Killing... Right, I don't senselessly pk anyone. Stephen is a warrior/knight/warlord. People get in his way and he will push them out of his way, they stand once more in his way and he will cut them down, especially when he feels he can get away with it. That is roleplaying a bad character. So again, this rule should either be thrown out or a legitimate case where I logged on, killed someone and then logged out with no roleplay interaction at all can be brought up.

Rule Speaking ooc, another seemingly joke or blatent lie. When I speak ooc it is to a noob who refuses to stay still and thus wont hear a whisper. Unless Nitram wants to bring up the case where his pushed character, (i refuse to believe his story that Gerron was simply kept on "invisible" mode while he trained for a year and thus the only time we ever see him was when he was virtually unbeatable, it simply is not practable, if someone wants to play a regular character you don't start roleplaying when he is super strong), inwhich that was the only case and hardly calls for a perma ban.

Rule 9) Powergaming, right well I am pretty sure everyone has agreed powergaming is impossible to do now because of the skill cap. and generally I would feel powergaming would mean making a character that has no roleplay and as every character I had carried with them intense and deep roleplay to say I powergamed is again either a joke or a blatent lie. The only character with minimal roleplay and mostly training was the Black Hand of Retlak but this was because he was ment to be strong, however he did interact with characters in a distant way and again you cannot say it is powergaming because I couldn't train past the cap.

I don't expect to be unbanned but if your going to perma ban me and then state publically why i was banned (which i did not ask for you to do which I believe is against some privacy rule, certainly thalodos got that right and assumingly you would feel his crime was worse then mine) at least be honest about why you banned me, because you don't like someone who questions you and doesn't believe your BS and implausable lines.

xoxo
sam

I never did rp with stephen that much but am a little curious why his name was banned on the forum also. Just from my brief rp however I never saw him talking ooc except to inform Achae that he didn't ask her how her day was

Since there is so much consternation about the ban wouldn't it help to discuss it more publically with the other players, this could also help in understanding what is expected of the players and Gm's?

It has been! About 8 frickin' times!

[Liles]

Seriosuly, this game is going down the shitter as it is. We don't need abusing staff to add onto that.

Just un-ban him, mostly all the players and ex-GMs agree that's the right course of action.

[Grant]

HOLY SHIT! BUMBOL WOODSTOCK! Great name Sam.


P.S. Now that you have made a great post, they'll just delete it and ban your ip.

[Arameh]

Keeping him banned gives to the game nothing else than frustration of players, if staff members wanted the best for the game they would chose their decision about how to make the forum and game more pleasant and friendly, sadly its not what I can see recently. This whole ban is a mistake and he probably wont get unbanned because the staff members have too much "pride".

[Grant]

I wanna ask the staff a question. Umm, reading the posts and seeing what Sam did. Why did he get a perma ban when I do more bad shit then anyone? I could make a list of a 100 things that I have even got caught for and not got a ban..

[Retlak]

Theoretically it should be the players dessision who they want to play with, not the gms.

[Llama]

I wanna ask the staff a question. Umm, reading the posts and seeing what Sam did. Why did he get a perma ban when I do more bad shit then anyone? I could make a list of a 100 things that I have even got caught for and not got a ban..

Fine, you're banned as well

[Lrmy]

1,2,3,7,8,9 are the rules I broke?

Lets go through them, as i am po stephen (they banned my garett gwenour account without stating why prior to it, oh well).

Rule 1) To keep ooc to a bare minimum and to promote roleplay. I think very few people can say I cannot roleplay or that i wander around talking leet. So this is either a blatent lie or a misused rule.

Rule 2) The only I did break and on accident, I simply did not think to erase Nitram's name in the log I posted though I did take care to not mention the player or the character when describing the incident. Nontheless, his fear was that if people knew his character everyone would try to talk to him ingame, I do not think any of this has happened, all that has occured is people realized his illegally pushed his private fighting character. And also lets not forget Nitram is not a GM but a Dev, as is Vilarion. That however has been argued and seemingly ignored.

Rule 3) Indeed I do insult people, however everyone insults people and I tend to balance my insults with going ingame and helping the noobs no one else seems to find time to do. When Stephen was governor I literally would log on and not be able to play with those I wanted because new players assumed I knew everything to the game, (This can be proven, just look through my logs or ask people who I had to tell on msn i couldn't join because some elfess wanted to know how to cut trees).

Rule 7) Player Killing... Right, I don't senselessly pk anyone. Stephen is a warrior/knight/warlord. People get in his way and he will push them out of his way, they stand once more in his way and he will cut them down, especially when he feels he can get away with it. That is roleplaying a bad character. So again, this rule should either be thrown out or a legitimate case where I logged on, killed someone and then logged out with no roleplay interaction at all can be brought up.

Rule Speaking ooc, another seemingly joke or blatent lie. When I speak ooc it is to a noob who refuses to stay still and thus wont hear a whisper. Unless Nitram wants to bring up the case where his pushed character, (i refuse to believe his story that Gerron was simply kept on "invisible" mode while he trained for a year and thus the only time we ever see him was when he was virtually unbeatable, it simply is not practable, if someone wants to play a regular character you don't start roleplaying when he is super strong), inwhich that was the only case and hardly calls for a perma ban.

Rule 9) Powergaming, right well I am pretty sure everyone has agreed powergaming is impossible to do now because of the skill cap. and generally I would feel powergaming would mean making a character that has no roleplay and as every character I had carried with them intense and deep roleplay to say I powergamed is again either a joke or a blatent lie. The only character with minimal roleplay and mostly training was the Black Hand of Retlak but this was because he was ment to be strong, however he did interact with characters in a distant way and again you cannot say it is powergaming because I couldn't train past the cap.

I don't expect to be unbanned but if your going to perma ban me and then state publically why i was banned (which i did not ask for you to do which I believe is against some privacy rule, certainly thalodos got that right and assumingly you would feel his crime was worse then mine) at least be honest about why you banned me, because you don't like someone who questions you and doesn't believe your BS and implausable lines.

xoxo
sam

I never did rp with stephen that much but am a little curious why his name was banned on the forum also. Just from my brief rp however I never saw him talking ooc except to inform Achae that he didn't ask her how her day was

Since there is so much consternation about the ban wouldn't it help to discuss it more publically with the other players, this could also help in understanding what is expected of the players and Gm's?

The public is trying to discuss things here. As you can see from my last post the public does not want Sam banned. I belive I had 7 people agree with me before any other sort of thing was said. Since then a coulple of other people have shown dislike for the ban in this thread. I do not belive you can any longer argue that it is in the publics intrest for Sam to be banned.

Will they use the past offenses they had on him when the role play was stricter?(I was also banned twice in that time) That is hardly fair considering half the people that play now would be banned under those rules(well maybe only a third not half). Or prehaps the time he attacked and clouded the "non-english speakers" witch I attacked with him. They knew english to an extent where they could understand what was going on, not to mention they happened to all log in when we attacked them.

If there are other past reasons that would suggest a perm ban I am shure he and the public and the player would like and deserve to hear them

[Japheth]

I would wholeheartedly support a permanent ban of PO Grant (not Sam) because of his repulsive behaviour on the boards, but I digress.

A perma-ban for PO Stephen Rothman (hereafter, Sam) is idiotic. The staff know that it's never going to stick, as Sam has a habit of getting back into the game when banned. With the removed account system/name check, it's only a few clicks of the mouse to be back in-game again. He'll slowly rise to the top of the game again (as the player is prone to doing, due to some sort of hideous excess of ambition and clichéd roleplaying skills, but again, I digress) and we'll be back where we all started.

So, here's what we do. We give the staff two weeks. For the following two weeks, the staff rework the rules (as I believe they're in the slow process of already doing, but honestly guys, this should only take one day at most, even at their usual glacial pace). They reassess the rules with which they banned Sam and add any and all rules that they imagine they'll need to cover their asses is in the future. After this two week period, the rules cannot be altered until the following year. During the year, the newly created rules should cover all potential cases of banning. If they haven't, new rules will be added during the following rule adjustment period. After these two weeks, Sam is unbanned (let's face it, he'll probably have created another hero by then), the staff apologise for their ludicrous and lacka interpretation of the rules and we all somehow struggle to get on with our lives.

One last thing: Aegohl and I once discussed why some staff members (I think it might have been Damien) have such an apparent dislike of Sam. I think it might ultimately come down to a difference in playing styles. Aegohl and I decided that American players, like Sam are prone to creating heroic characters, as most of their experience of fantasy comes from movies like LotR, etc which put an emphasis on one or more heroes rising above the crowd and triumphing. German/European players (excluding Ireland, UK, which I believe might adhere more closely to the US philosophy, exceptions of course) have a more traditional, relaxed approach to roleplay. It focuses on character, nuance and constant development. These two styles are often incompatible. I remember wanting to go for the pomp and circumstance in one of my earlier quests and having one or several gods making an appearance. Damien was fiercely against this, however, instead stating that the gods should only be a background element to the game. He said they should only be there influence a character's alignment or development.

Anyway, that's an entirely other topic, which I don't feel like starting, but my main points stand.

[Japheth]

Oh, one last thing. Korm, calling Aegohl pathetic is likely to not make you very many friends around these parts. Try to keep up.

[AlexRose]

I would wholeheartedly support a permanent ban of PO Grant (not Sam) because of his repulsive behaviour on the boards, but I digress.

A perma-ban for PO Stephen Rothman (hereafter, Sam) is idiotic. The staff know that it's never going to stick, as Sam has a habit of getting back into the game when banned. With the removed account system/name check, it's only a few clicks of the mouse to be back in-game again. He'll slowly rise to the top of the game again (as the player is prone to doing, due to some sort of hideous excess of ambition and clichéd roleplaying skills, but again, I digress) and we'll be back where we all started.

So, here's what we do. We give the staff two weeks. For the following two weeks, the staff rework the rules (as I believe they're in the slow process of already doing, but honestly guys, this should only take one day at most, even at their usual glacial pace). They reassess the rules with which they banned Sam and add any and all rules that they imagine they'll need to cover their asses is in the future. After this two week period, the rules cannot be altered until the following year. During the year, the newly created rules should cover all potential cases of banning. If they haven't, new rules will be added during the following rule adjustment period. After these two weeks, Sam is unbanned (let's face it, he'll probably have created another hero by then), the staff apologise for their ludicrous and lacka interpretation of the rules and we all somehow struggle to get on with our lives.

One last thing: Aegohl and I once discussed why some staff members (I think it might have been Damien) have such an apparent dislike of Sam. I think it might ultimately come down to a difference in playing styles. Aegohl and I decided that American players, like Sam are prone to creating heroic characters, as most of their experience of fantasy comes from movies like LotR, etc which put an emphasis on one or more heroes rising above the crowd and triumphing. German/European players (excluding Ireland, UK, which I believe might adhere more closely to the US philosophy, exceptions of course) have a more traditional, relaxed approach to roleplay. It focuses on character, nuance and constant development. These two styles are often incompatible. I remember wanting to go for the pomp and circumstance in one of my earlier quests and having one or several gods making an appearance. Damien was fiercely against this, however, instead stating that the gods should only be a background element to the game. He said they should only be there influence a character's alignment or development.

Anyway, that's an entirely other topic, which I don't feel like starting, but my main points stand.

They can ban his ip...

[Japheth]

Your IP changes several times over the course of a year. I believe he was IP banned on all of his previous bannings and ultimately it didn't make a difference. Sam is like Marmite. You either love his roleplay and attitude or you hate it. He's a potent personality in-game and this game severely needs people with such distinctive (note how I didn't say good) roleplay. Personally, I despise him, but his ban is ultimately unfair.

[Bumbol Woodstock]

WTF I thought you liked me.

[AlexRose]

WTF I thought you liked me.

ROFL

[Japheth]

I don't like your roleplay, but there is nothing rule-breaking about it. You, the person, have been grating on my nerves lately, and ultimately, I can never "like" a person whose personal religious beliefs condemn all gay people to hell. Anyway, that doesn't matter. Your banning was unjust and I hope you get back in. Hopefully, what I wrote above will help.

[Bumbol Woodstock]

I don't condemn homosexuals, at the same time this isn't the place obviously. Just know I love you.

[Japheth]

Just know that I haven't, nor will I ever accept Jesus as my personal saviour.

[AlexRose]

I think my religion condemns homosexuality but I'm an atheist and completely detach myself from it.

((By "my" religion I mean the one I was baptised and forced to recieve confirmation into. It's a bit unfair that I had no choice about this; and at 7 years old I didn't know what I'd think.))

[Bumbol Woodstock]

I really don't protest my ban, the worst part is they (the powers that be) have effectively killed off the momentum Kallahorn had built by instantly banning my character stephen rothman for this silly reason and inturn locking ALL his assets which were formidable. If anything I would demand that someone went on the Stephen Rothman account and gave all his money, ores, armors, rare weapons, tools etc to a member of the Knighthood.

[Alkuurg]

That shows something about your roleplay, no? You care so much about the gguld? you want itto thrive even if your character is banned? I can expect Stephen wo twant that? but why you? Blah!!!


to those that think everyoen wants Sam back, that thinksd wiyhout him the game ends¬ WSHutu[p! Mayber some people just don't care enoguh to post? just don't see big enough diffrence? blah!"

=-Al!