Magic Discussion

[Garett Gwenour]

I think Silas' post is entirely useless, if we would follow what he sets up then no one can comment on any form of roleplay or any form of the game unless they have partaken in it. This would include, no one can comment about how ingame governments are run unless they have played a character that ran it, no one could comment on how quests are run unless they have run a quest; no one could comment on how to play a knight unless they have played a knight etc, it just gets stupid. (Tho strangely Damien seems to support this belief by asking only mages with runes to be able to decide how magic is taught in the future). If you cannot argue a point Dan or Aegohl put up and must go to insulting the player and telling people to ignore the arguement established you have no place in a discussion thread, which I believe this is.


Mitch or Aegohl is correct that largely the Magic Academy is a failure, we can all agree on this. It had fallen into a hole where only people who talked to a GM on msn or were dating a GM tended to manage to get a batch of runes and then people made up excuses on why they weren't teaching or why they couldn't teach etc etc. Player to Player teaching to magic will simply never work. Dungeon, adventure, static quest solving is the only feasible solution.

You want this game to be fun or you want people to pour hours into this game to be satisfied. One should decide, you want this game to be fun and people can establish their character without having to ruin their social life to do it then you should make more static quests that give out skill and items. If you feel that if you don't live and breathe illarion then you don't deserve to have a mage (like Patric clearly does) then you should keep it as player to player teaching runes.

I would vote for fun. But then again I don't have a game...yet...

[Achae Eanstray]

Just an opinion, but I don't see why a mage should be different from other skills a char can learn if they have the ability to learn them. Any char can be a tailor maybe not as good a tailor as one that has the inclination..the dexterity. Any char can fight, some though will have more skills and be made for that versus others. A char made for a mage can't ever be a good fighter, or tailor but there are other things they could do. Is the fear everyone will have some magic? Most chars would probably only be able to do a little illusion if even that.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Its simply that magic shall not be a mass production. Magic should be something special. And not something that everyone who wants can throw around, if he is now a mage of character or not. It is already bad that every knight out there also becomes a farmer, a miner, a craftmen, and who knows what else. That is bad roleplay. And atleast magic should not become something everyone who shouldnt have it can learn.

And dungeons and static quests won't help. I don't see why you have to be able to fight through monster hoards and crawl around in dark holes to learn magic and cast it. Magic is a profession which you learn through studies, and not by being the best dungeon crawler.
Also by such quests and dungeons there wont be any restriction to those who simply can't play a proper mage. everyone will go than learning magic, even if it doesnt fit his role. just because he has now the attributes for it.
I remember Nilo, the powerfull halfling "mage" who learned every other skill and killed anyone he doesnt liked. It was no fun watching a halfling planting a few thousand cabbages and killing someone who touches them with iceflames.

Something like that should not be possible, but it would with Stephens and others idea.

And i still wonder why those playing no magechar are saying how magic shall be, and how it should be learned. i think those just say so because they don't like it that their "groups" have no magechars themself. i am sure kallahorn would be the first ones who send their knights to learn magic and powergame that up.

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

Patric is right! Why the hell do you people argue about this? God damn it.. play a mage char and try, yes at least try, to make him a decent mage.
And the whole idea about magic in dungeons, only makes me wanna say: WHAT THE FCK?? are you people fcking crazy??? A mage is the wisest being in world, not the best fighter, or best trader, or what ever... A mage gets to be a mage only after yeares maybe even decades of intese studies and dedication, not looting dead monsters, for God's sake!

@korm: no disrespect, but why the heck don't we just write in the rules: "Don't play an evil char, cos' you won't get shit". Does this seem fair to you? If I choose to play an evil mage char, and I choose to spend years and years (IG) of study and research with him, in order to gain power, why the hell would you stop me? I mean, common man, evil must get the same chance in this game as the good. Only the best RP should win, not a pre-established part.

God damn it men, if you chose to play a 5 int fighter, it is your problem, but don't tell us that mages should be shit after all it takes to become one..

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM POSTING HERE IF YOU DON'T PLAY A MAGE

[Achae Eanstray]

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM POSTING HERE IF YOU DON'T PLAY A MAGE

It could be possible that the posters has/had a char that was made for a mage and has an interest in the discussion. However, if you mean has graduated the academy in the past and has runes, that would be different and possibly the title needs to be changed to reflect that the thread is closed except for those active chars?

[Halvdan]

hm....but it is horrible, if the mage needs only two, three or five migic spells for killing a man, but a warrior for example needs many punches and hits! and you can't make some denfense against magic...for me is the magic to strong, may be it should be make a but lower.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

hm....but it is horrible, if the mage needs only two, three or five migic spells for killing a man, but a warrior for example needs many punches and hits!

Any warrior could kill samantha with 4-5 swordstrokes. Samantha needs 4 spells for a warrior, her spells need casting time, and when she gets hit while casting a spell the spell immediatelly stops and she has start to cast it again. There are few mages,m but many warriors. The chance that a mage has to face two or three warriors is high, imagine how the mage chances are THAN to survive and defeat the warriors.most likely the mage will than run away, and the warriors have won.

[Mr. Cromwell]

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM POSTING HERE IF YOU DON'T PLAY A MAGE

How about some other artifical limitations while at it? I know:

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM POSTING HERE IF YOU DON'T HAVE BLUE EYES AND BOOBS. (MAN BOOBS COUNT AS WELL)

..Because this method of discusser selection is just about as relevant and purposeful as yours.

Dude, this is a community, or so I have been led to believe anyways. This means that Magic-using characters are not living inside a bubble of their own. What you are trying to do, is to completely ban the receiving end of magic from the discussion, only wishing to involve the benefitting side. Instead of constandly demeaning and belittling the input of those damned non-mage players, you should sit down and think about what they are saying. Even if they say things that you completely disagree about.

I'm sure that by banning all discussion and through corrupt selection of those who can or cannot give input you will get enormously fair and balanced results in the end. Wait.. wait..

Now please take a chill-pill and think about what I said. Limiting discussion usually means that the side wishing to limit it just doesn't have anything to back their opinion up with..

@Samantha
How many squares away can you begin casting? How many squares away can I begin striking? Herro? If I get a strike on Samantha at the same time when you get the first spell, then you have just fucked up with something and the character deserves to die. Sorry.

[Aristeaus]

I still see magic as elitist bullshit ;] atm that is.

Morning all.

And i have played mages if that counts in my being allowed to post ;]

[Samantha Meryadeles]

@Samantha
How many squares away can you begin casting? How many squares away can I begin striking? Herro? If I get a strike on Samantha at the same time when you get the first spell, then you have just fucked up with something and the character deserves to die. Sorry.

Ever heard of Archery? Samantha needs several seconds to cast a spell, more than enough time for a warrior to walk upon her. your point sucks, sorry.

[Mr. Cromwell]

@Samantha
How many squares away can you begin casting? How many squares away can I begin striking? Herro? If I get a strike on Samantha at the same time when you get the first spell, then you have just fucked up with something and the character deserves to die. Sorry.

Ever heard of Archery? Samantha needs several seconds to cast a spell, more than enough time for a warrior to walk upon her. your point sucks, sorry.

The archers are probably even more far in between than mages. I have seen one, thus far (and during that ocasion there were plenty of mages around, mind you..). The time neciessary for the warrior to walk up on her would depend mightily on the terrain/constructs, don't you think? Shoot-teleport away-shoot. If you were witty, you would even teleport away in a manner that force the warrior to run some extra.. (Eg. not + but rather x)

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

see , you didn't play a mage did you? To teleport means that you need to cancel the target lock upon the enemy + select spell + click target and maybe even a need to shift+direction to face it. Which means a lot more extra seconds for the fighter to reach you...

[Samantha Meryadeles]

They know nothing about magic and how its work, but think they know best than any other to decide whats possible and what not.

[Nalzaxx]

Yay to runes through adventures and puzzles.

But that doesnt neccesarily mean the puzzles have to be at the bottom of a big dungeon. Perhaps the puzzle can be given through an NPC mage somewhere.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

And than? once the puzzle is solved it takes three days until everyone knows the answer to the puzzle, and the puzzle becomes void.

just look at irundar, which became a tourist place for everyone.

[Aristeaus]

Ive got an idea ;]

How about we have a few people wander around the isle and choose who they think are the best roleplayers, and offer them runes. That way we can keep the favourtism and elitist nature of magic to its highest degree ;]

[Berengar]

Ive got an idea ;]

How about we have a few people wander around the isle and choose who they think are the best roleplayers, and offer them runes. That way we can keep the favourtism and elitist nature of magic to its highest degree ;]

Hasn't that happened already?

But seriousely, why would it be so hard to give anybody who wants to play a mage the opportunity to get runes? I know, regarded from the "fantasy-story/book/D&D comparison"-point of view magic should be very, very, veeeeery special... but playing a magechar without ANY runes sucks in my opinion (tried it for a few months )
The second point people keep repeating seems to be, that magic is too powerful to be given in the hands of everybody and doing so would create new Nilos, Elaraliths,etc. However, every mage-char player so far agreed in this thread, that magic istn't so uber at all and that a skilled fighter was capable of killing a mage even in 1v1...

Suggestion: Make basic runes achievable for anybody (quests/books/etc.) and keep the elitarism approach to magic when it comes to more powerful runes.

[Lrmy]

A mage can accually beat a fighter one on one. Samantha used 2 spells on my character Dain and I got 8 solid hits on her. I was in a flame and I could barely see any red at all in my health bar, if I had stayed for another moment the flame would have killed me. Dain's fighting skills are above the average players as well I would like to add, just as Samantha's magic skills are above the average mage's skills. I am not saying magic should be weakened, just a fighter cannot kill a mage near the same skill as them.

@Berengar:
So yes, magic is to strong for people who cannot role play it properly. It should be hard to get. It should be harder if anything in my opinion..(than it was then the acadamy was around)

[Samantha Meryadeles]

PO Dain, samanthas health was down to 1/20. 1 or two more hits and she would have been dead.

And currently magic even got weakend because of a bug. i need now twice as much spells, and they cost me twice as much mana.

so dont complain. you could have killed me before, and now you can do it for sure

[Azuros]

I thought that the amount of damage that flames summoned give is not dependent on magic skill, did that change, am I thinking of another spell, or what?

[Arameh]

That it takes 9 hits to kill an unarmored character with low constitution is also a bug

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Says who, Arameh?

[Lrmy]

I thought that the amount of damage that flames summoned give is not dependent on magic skill, did that change, am I thinking of another spell, or what?

No, you are correct.

[Arameh]

Call me Dan, and, just use your logic, should it take 9 strikes coming fron two swords at once (18 strikes actually) to kill someone that actually wears no armor at all? You need to be quite dumb to think this is something wanted. It is not because you dispise me that I am wrong, you seem to have that logic since you tell nearly everyone they are wrong all the time . This is surely more a bug than your mana cost thing, it was actually WANTED to prevent powergaming, wasnt it?

[Cuthalion]

Well Arameh, im not sure, but i think you where about to kill my char in 4 hits last time we dueled, and he is at least a lot better fighter than Samantha.
If magic is as strong as all the warriors here say, then great! If it is as weak as the mages say, then it should be more powerfull in my opinion. To have a gruop, that is allmost a legend, is great rp. make mages really powerfull, and very rear. if it is what it takes, make the study time of magic a year real time, and punish powerplaying with magic roughly. During the learning period, one can have some great rp too. The only problem is to get teachers. If this can be done in some way, maybe by an npc or somthing, i think that would be great. I allso think one should have to aply for the mage class. Let the name of the applier be secret, if you fear favorising. There could allso be a lower, and higher way of magic, to satisfy the new players who wants to play mages. I keep hearing that this is an rpg and that it is not all about skills and power, but even veteran players like Arameh seems to think his char isnt strong enough. No offence Ara.
You made it all the way here?! Ever thought about aplying for a really long learning time in magic?;)

[Samantha Meryadeles]

The strength of flames depents on the mages skill. Someone who just started to cast flames make less strong flames than someone with a higher skill.

And arameh, should it take 5 or more fire explosions to kill a man? And it was nitram himself saying that the manausage and strength is bugged. you remember nitram, yes? the man you lied to about me.

And dain needed less than 9 attacks. it were just around 5. and samantha wears leatherarmor under her robe, thank you.

[Arameh]

I never lied to Nitram, stop telling nonsense you know as well as I that I didnt. Leather armor isnt giving any decent protecting either and you already know that too. The healt also is bugged and he is working on it so you know, it IS a bug.

[Fooser]

Ive got an idea ;]

How about we have a few people wander around the isle and choose who they think are the best roleplayers, and offer them runes. That way we can keep the favourtism and elitist nature of magic to its highest degree ;]

This is absolute genius. Aristeaus has proven so many times now that he is a true innovator.

[abcfantasy]

There could allso be a lower, and higher way of magic, to satisfy the new players who wants to play mages

This would be a great idea...since many want to be a mage, there should be minor magic for those, while only a few mages are able to use the feared major spells (chars very good at rping, and who would rarely use these major spells)

[Cuthalion]

Thanks for reading my post fantasy:) Uhm could you rest do the same, and please stop spaming about wether the others are lying or not? Would be nice if you did that with pms.