Magic Discussion

Samantha Meryadeles · Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:32 am

I have a request...

please change orl kah and orl kah qwan back to its former way. summoning food instead of filling the food bar. you took mages the only way to earn money with magic.

the average mage has NO crafts.,..not if he doesnt powergame. a mage is no craftmen.,..now they have NO chance to earn money as a mage...so you force them to do a craft to get money. and that is no good way. either give them the old food spells back, or give them other spells with which they CAN earn money.

or being a mage means being poor or a powergamer who practice a skill not fitting to the role

Thorgrimm · Post by **Thorgrimm** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:33 am

i liked it - because the mage took away the only way, that cooks and farmers can get money.

and nalcaryos made with thariel 20 silver only by being helping him with mes pen. so when you roleplay, you can get rich.

Samantha Meryadeles · Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:37 am

Not every mage is like Nalcaryos who does crafts and works as a hired mage. to be honest, other mages ingame see nalcaryos as a mage not following the right path BECAUSE he interests too much in doing craft and all.

and nalcaryos made with thariel 20 silver only by being helping him with mes pen.

and what does that mean? can you write that please in a sentence understandbale? sorry, but "being helping him with mes pen" makes no sense

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:43 am

I am assuming he meant that he cast MES PEN to heal him while he fought, not sure though.

And I agree that mages should go back to summoning food, rather than refilling the bar.

Siegfried Schtauffen · Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:44 am

I miss Nilo.

Samantha Meryadeles · Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:48 am

oh, and please...change the sound for orl kah qwan...it is no good idea to give a spell filling your food bar the sound of an explosion...that is very disturbing, especially for others around you who think you casted a damage spell.

Thorgrimm · Post by **Thorgrimm** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:50 am

das ist keine explosion. die früchte werden im bauch beschworen, also tut ihr das immer noch. da aber platz rein muss, gibt es erstmal einen dicken furz...

Samantha Meryadeles · Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:51 am

oh, and please also raise the regeneration of mana back to its former niveau...i think you lowered it, and now it feels far, far, FAAAR too slow

say...is there also any positive changes for magic or just negative making magic more and more difficult and less fun?

food spells give no food anymore, they just fill your food bar. that takes mages the only real possibility to have income with their magic.

orl kah fills your foodbar as good as not. making that spell useless.

orl kah qwan fills your foodbar less than the manacost. making that spell not very usefull too.

and the manaregeneration got again slower i believe...too slow. samantzha needs 14 minutes to regenerate her manabar. and it takes her half of the manabar to compensate the foodbar that gets lost while regenerating mana.

and whats the positiv? spells light now the area for a few seconds...that was it...wow...or is there more? i hope so, since it is never good too take more fun away than giving in return.

no, really. as a player of a mage i am dissapointed by this changes, and they are not for the good. just for the bad. that changes are just taking fun, and giving not more fun

and how do you please explain it from view of roleplay that mages cant cast food anymore? you changed that and gave us no explanation. we stand there now, and have to explain why our mages cant cast food, like they could since magic exists ingame , anymore.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:44 am

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:oh, and please...change the sound for orl kah qwan...it is no good idea to give a spell filling your food bar the sound of an explosion...that is very disturbing, especially for others around you who think you casted a damage spell.

That is true, Stephen made an idiot of himself when he tried to confront Sideon Vilarion since he heard some 3 explosions and spells being cast only to find out it is just a food spell

WickedEwok · Post by **WickedEwok** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:31 am

just do alchemy, that's very mage-like

'not fitting to the role' ...

mages will be able to cast spells on weapons, right?

and it was very annoying to see all those foodmages selling hundrets of their mushrooms etc a day

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:50 am

I think the removal of food from the orl kah spell is a great idea.

And whats all this crap about the only way for mages to make money? That is COMPLETE rubbish. While I agree there should be things such as scrolls, enchantments and other magical items mages could make and sell, there are plenty of ways to make money as a mage. Using mage skills.

Once I get home and have a little play with the new effects, I shall give a final verdict. From what Patric says they may need a little balancing. However in principle, a good idea that should have been done long ago.

Post by **Vilarion** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:20 pm

The change of orl kah (qwan) will not be reverted although the new spell layout is going to be adjusted somewhat. In the beginning it was used for poor mages to be able to get food. But some players, e.g. PO Samantha abused it and sold heaps of food, thus creating one of the richest chars on the server. Not only with food, but well, a great deal of it. That was against the intention and so it was removed as a logical consequence. It is difficult to play a pure mage with high attibutes, no question. But that again is how it should be.
The second reason for this change is the direct conflict with farmers as Nalzaxx mentioned it. It is quite annoying to play a farmer, caring for your seeds and then having a mage coming up the road, casting one minute to saturate a whole town.
It is interesting though that just the one who misused the spell most omplains first using an ill logic argument. Mages should be non crafting but still be able to gain money easily. Correct? The change was just a question of fairness. They are not for the good? They are for many, just not for some single mages who want to be rich.

So long,
Vilarion

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:57 pm

So this new spell will be able to replace food, but just for the mage? If I understand it correctly?

Post by **Nitram** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:17 pm

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:oh, and please also raise the regeneration of mana back to its former niveau...i think you lowered it, and now it feels far, far, FAAAR too slow

Just to let you know, the regeneration was not changed.

Nitram

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:22 pm

Orl Kah seems to have no effect at all. Orl Kah Quan costs loads of mana, but has far too few effect to be useful at all.
Illusion spells now can use up 1/2 of the caster's mana, if the caster has a low skill. This way, new mages are uhm... quite unable to improve their skill at all, if given illusion spells for practice. Positive side : powergaming isn't that easy anymore with this spell.

The effect of these food changes is, that "rich" chars can buy mana potions, while those who have not abused the spell, are out of mana AND money and will roam the island for apple trees again (I myself have only sold bananas and tangerines, since they were somewhat rare. I thought it was quite clear that one should not take magically created food as qualitative as "normal" food, but this only teaches us that if there is a weakness that can be abused, it will be abused.) *starts roaming for apples*
So a significant raise of spell effect OR lowering of the mana costs, OR if regenerating mana would use up much less food - would be solutions.
Note : If this spell should be useful at all, it should regenerate significantly more mana with time than it uses up.
The explosion sound with the fart explanation is great though *ggg*

A reduction of Mana regeneration would also kinda enforce the use of potions, if no "meditation" skill would be introduced somehow.
Actually that would be good for the market (only if mages get a possibility to somehow make money).

Anyhow, every possibility for mages to make money, will be excessively (mis)used by players like PO Samantha.
Ergo : The best solution to have fun in the game on the base of being successful in something actually is not to play a mage character (if you are not Samantha)

Anyhow - every mage who wants to complain about this, please don't complain to the staff. Complain to Samantha for ruining the fun for others instead.

Post by **Vilarion** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:43 pm

As I said, the amount of raising will be increased so that it makes sense.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:53 pm

Can it be changed in a way so that samantha cannot find a method to abuse or complain about it ?

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:05 pm

Impossible, good man. You can't have both.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:05 pm

Maybe mages should earn money by selling themselves or using themselves as tools... Many rich warrior characters would love to hire them or even pay for them to live in their towns ...

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:25 pm

Not a too good option. Illarion is no battle-themed server. Anyhow there is not much need for mage backup, the fewest mages i know have ever been offered money to backup a group of adventurers who want to roam a dungeon. And since mages can't carry that much, the life of a dungeon adventurer isn't really profitable to them. Plus, standing in the back position leaves you with all lightweighted valuable stuff already taken from the corpses when you get there.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:28 pm

Well, it doesn't need to be battle themed, hiring a mage to stay in a town to teach people is good roleplay I would say. If the mage refuses to take the job, fine, starve.

Edit - And I agree with Vilarion that a mage shouldn't be able to screw over cooks and farmers with the old food spell, I mean, it is true, Samanatha became the richest character solely because she would sell food and would take business from other cook characters thus lessening their fun in playing a character who's trade is useless because a mage can make just as much faster and with less skill.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm

There's always the option to pick apples.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:33 pm

I agree that the illusion spells were abused excessively, but the solution seems a bit silly. Unless the real spell uses a nearly comparable amount of the mana (I can't check because I don't have any of the real spells, but that's an entirely different gripe) I don't see any real use for them. They're unlikely to trick someone into overestimating the potency of a mage, and if they don't, that mage is completely out of mana, and defenseless.

Even with what I consider a reasonable amount of skill, and decent mage attributes, the basic illusions are sucking up 1/2 of my mana.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:36 pm

Actually the entire Temple treasury. 100 odd silver, numerous magical artifacts and all the gems and sparkly stuff. Was ALL collected through forays with the fighter members. Supporting them, and healing them.

The loot could then be split at the end. Or in the Temple's case, hoarded by Galthran.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:09 pm

Is it not a way to introduce fear of magic food or somthing into the game? That the traders refuse to buy it or somthing? Actually it is more logical that your food bar is just filled up, as it is an illusion anyway, and it is the energy from the spell, that makes you stop "starving" Why would a mage channel the energy into the form of, lets say a banana. It just makes it harder. it would be nice with some cool visual and sounds efects though, and one should be able to cast the spell at friends. That way you do not take anything from the mages, except the ability to "cheat". It is horible roleplay to summon food and seel it too. Not much better than being a pesent mage... Allso, what is the problem to be a mage/weaponsmith? Or a mage/goldsmith. I think it goes very well together. Allso, it would be nice if mighty people like the governor hired mages to help them, as he has heard of their "great wisdom".

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:16 pm

Cuthalion wrote:It is horible roleplay to summon food and seel it too.

O_o

And this is coming from the guy who told me off for not powergaming my spell...

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:40 pm

, Samanatha became the richest character solely because she would sell food and would take business from other cook characters

could you please stop spreading lies? that also counts for nitram. samantha is rich, yes. but selling food just is a very little part of her income. the true money she made with selling rare items. an excellent, diamond ring to salathe for 200 silver, 50 goldingots to alexander for 100 silver, and so on. also she done trades. she traded with many goods. for example she bought alot of grain for low price by mazrian and sold it for the double price to the dwarfs. or she has an agreement with thorwald selling his wares for him in trollsbane and keeping the profit she made over his prices. to say her wealth comes from selling food is simply untrue and a lie.

noone buys that much food. until now Silas made the biggest trade ever with food, not samantha. that was when he once sold food for 50 silver. samantha never sold food for that much silver at once. usually she sold sometimes for 5-15 silver. SOMETIMES.And also she hasnt made money with cakes, or rolls. SHE made most times over money with steaks and readheads.Steaks, something NOONE can make. you just find it by gnolls when killing them. And readheads, ask any druid how difficult it was to get readheads. that was her true income with food. and not cakes, bread or whatever. except selling cherry cakes to the npc.

and nitram, especially you should see that. or who played Thomas, a char who made in 1 month 500 silver through being a trader?

Garon Goldhand · Post by **Garon Goldhand** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:47 pm

That is a contradiction, right? Did you not say that casting food was the only possibility to get money as a mage? If that is not the case the change will hurt noone, great. And selling casted cakes to empty an npc for farmers is at least doubtful I think.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:49 pm

Will picks up crap off the floor and buys random crap off people then sells it for huge amounts. A rotten, crappy shovel off the floor for 8 silvers. Oooh yeeeah. "This was the shovel that buried Alkuurg".

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:50 pm

you took mages the only way to earn money with magic.

Wrong. i said only possibility to earn money WITH magic. a mage does no craft. but samantha worked as a merchant because selling food is no uber way to earn money like others say. but it was atleast a way, without every mage being a merchant.

also, stop saying i was the only one. Silas Farron, Nalcaryos and so on did the same. so please stop telling it was just me and my fault *Rolls eyes*. that is based on your dislikes for me, and no real proofs or happenings