Rollenspiel Situation – Roleplay Situation

[Nitram]

Problem 2: Do they really have power? Sure, there is the castle which belongs to the Rose, but I see no real power in the Rose (no offense).

Exactly this is the point. Who has power?

Who has really the power to change something IG?

[Nerian Finera]

Problem 2: Do they really have power? Sure, there is the castle which belongs to the Rose, but I see no real power in the Rose (no offense).

Exactly this is the point. Who has power?

Who has really the power to change something IG?

An interesting point...

[Errian Abêth]

Who has really the power to change something IG?

Some particular people. They can change things and make you not to change anything. Others can change things, though, always when these particulat people don't care about it.

Got it?

[Nitram]

No

[Nerian Finera]

well...really change anything isn't even able, if you are a person with a high rank
the reason: noone is really interested in politics IG (and with noone i mean the folks, who don't have a high rank)

[Nitram]

Noone is interessted in ranks, because noone cares for politics. Change one and the second thing will change too.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

I can agree 100 % with Nitram, and that are problems IG I see and noticed myself since many month. That are also the reasons why I don't play much anymore in the last time. It simply frustrated me.

I am trying with my chars really to play their role out. Like Samantha. I trie to play her as a noble and a follower of Zhambra. She demands that others behave against her like again a duchess. that they behave like they should behave against a noble and an archmistress.

But 90 % ignores it. The chars dont care and make fun about it, and the players dont see why they should behave respectfull or anything other against that char. the most times you try to play a char like samantha you just hear "it is unimportant what you were before you came to the isle. here you are like everyone else, and you have to earn respect first".

That means every noble one entering the isle has to accept that he got treated like a commoner...you have no chance to play a noble and also gain the normal roleplay as long as you havent started as a all loving, friendly and helpfull commoner and gain so first respect and friendship.

You demand to be called by your surname? nothing special by a noble, or anyone else...but no, the peoples start to make fun of you because of it. they say "she wants to be called lady, she is an arrogant fool" and imemdiately their whole rp is negative against you. Charas who dont beave like the pure friendlyness and agree that strangers call them by their forname are quickly dismissed by the ingame group.


That really has to change...i try to play a noble mage as good as possible. but i just earn dislikes, jokes and respectless behaviour ingame. simply because she doesnt behave like everyone else. friendly and buddy like to everyone crossing her path.


same with Ghorn. I tried to play ghorn as a real dwarf. rough, unfriendly and a dislike of the other races. that is how a true dwarf is roleplayed...but do peoples react like that? no. the dwarf there is rough and unfriendly, and immediately everyone points at him, insults and starts to hate him. you played the role of a dwarf and you just earn dislikes from the community.


Every who doesnt play a buddy like, friendly and everything and everyone accepting char ingame becomes immediately dismissed and bullied by the ingame community. That really has to change


Same with the undeads...samantha as a follower of zhambra speaks against the cult, the temple and the undeads. she writes exactly what the temple is and what it means. everyone with common sense may see that the temple is pure evil and cant be tolerated...but no...immediately a flame war starts and everyone attacks and insults her. rothman self insults and attacks her. and noone cares.

[Laviath Rathor]

Ich denke die Sache mit den Rassen lässt sich nicht pauschal regeln. Ich kann zum Beispiel nicht mit meinem Druiden rumrennen und jedem Zwerg dummkommen, nur weil er Zwerg ist. Als Druide bin ich von haus aus eigentlich ruhig und bringe den anderen respekt entgegen, unabhängig von rasse, geschlecht oder titel, da für mich jedes lebewesen gleich ist. Ärgerlich werde ich nur dann wirklich, wenn es zum Beispiel um so sachen wie den kult geht. Laviath hat deswegen ja sogar seine Stelle als Förster gekündigt.

Edit: Das hängt vom Adeligen ab. Ich meine Samantha ist, ohne dich angreifen zu wollen einfach nur eine unfreundliche, herrische muffelige Zicke. Egal ob adelig oder nicht. Denke ich dabei an andere, wie den Grafen Lennier zum beispiel, muss man ihn einfach für sein verhalten lieben und respektieren. Und außerdem gibt es auch in illa charactere, die sich nichts aus titeln machen, teilweise sogar schon rassenbedingt.

[Llama]

I had the same problem with Marousillion, who was a nobleman who was all snobbish.

Honestly he ended up covered in I don't know what, and then chased around town by a lizard who wanted to eat him... which was funny; however not my idea of how I had wanted it to develop.

It seems most characters are a bit.. anarchal

[Nitram]

Ich denke die Sache mit den Rassen lässt sich nicht pauschal regeln. Ich kann zum Beispiel nicht mit meinem Druiden rumrennen und jedem Zwerg dummkommen, nur weil er Zwerg ist.

In den meisten Fällen machen die Zwerge die Elfen an und nicht anders rum

Edit: Das hängt vom Adeligen ab. Ich meine Samantha ist, ohne dich angreifen zu wollen einfach nur eine unfreundliche, herrische muffelige Zicke.

Samatha ist der einzige mir bekannte Charakter der als Adlige gespielt wird. Sie behandelt die, die von geringerem Rang von oben herab. Das ist beim Adeligen nichts ungewöhnliches. Außerdem verlangt sie entsprechende Ettikette. Und irgendwie gibts sowas in Illarion ja nicht.

Egal ob adelig oder nicht. Denke ich dabei an andere, wie den Grafen Lennier zum beispiel, muss man ihn einfach für sein verhalten lieben und respektieren.

Lennier, bei aller Freundschaft hat nichts mit einem Adligen vom Rollenspiel her zu tun. Er ist zwar vom Rang her ein Adliger Graf aber er könnte auf die Weise auch einen Bauern spielen und es würde keinem Auffallen. Er ist vom Auftreten her das absolute Gegenteil von einem Adligen.

Und außerdem gibt es auch in illa charactere, die sich nichts aus titeln machen, teilweise sogar schon rassenbedingt.

Schlecht Formuliert.
Es gibt in Illa ausschlieslich Charaktere die sich nichts aus Titeln machen.

Nitram

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Lennier spielt aber nicht als Adeliger. die meisten nennen ihn einfach nur "Lennier". sorry...doch da existiert kein adeliges rp bei lennier. graf ist nur ein titel der rose. nichts gegen lennier, er weiss ich liebe ihn . aber lennier spielt auch nicht als adeliger, und möchte auch nicht als solcher gesehen werden.


und samantha reagiert nur zickig wenn jemand nicht den nötigen respekt und die erforderlichen manieren aufbringen kann. was leider ständig geschieht. Jemand nennt sie "Sammy", sie sagt "It is "Lady Meryadelese" for you" und wusch, sofort ist sie arrogant und zickig in euren augen. aber ihr vergesst da das wesentliche. und zwar da ssie eine herzogin und erzmagierin ist. aber das interessiert euch nicht in dem moment

[Arameh]

PO Samantha has a real good point now, the thing is characters have modern beliefs...

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Yes...that is so. Most characters dont think medi-evil like. They think modern like. Human rights, UNO, democracy...And that is a big problem. All that hasnt existed in a medi-evil society. The guard punches the thief who insults him? what ever...thats normal. but no, not in illa. there everyone shouts at the guard that he tortures the thief...that is plain stupid

A good explanation is the temple stuff. Stephen says "as long as they dont do a crime, they are allowed to enter". sorry, but that is 100 % NOT medi-evil...in medi evil times every man who stood in the town and claimed that he whorships satan would have be burned immediately, after he got tortured...if he is still alive. because mostly the citizens around would have thrown stones immediately at him.

And in illa? The temple claims to whorship someone who is the satan of illarion. most dont care. what ever...let them whorship the pure evil, enemy of all good and alive. as long as they dont do a crime we won't care.

That is bad roleplay in my eyes, very bad. it is not medi-evil roleplay, it is modern life roleplay

And there we have to change aswell. Many of us have also start to think medi-evil like with their chars. not modern like. we have to step away from the civil rights, democracy and all we have today, and forget it when playing our chars. because the world of our chars don't know all that modern stuff.

[Jon Childs]

well, when my char is imprisoned, Me and Arameh had a discussion about treeting prisoners...They would be treated like a beating tool.

[Llama]

However, that would mean that women are badly treated../

I agree that we need the feudal system back... however to make that happen, we need a way to mark land as beign "His"

[Samantha Meryadeles]

However, that would mean that women are badly treated../

Ever heard of Albar?

You can treat Samantha badly...if you are brave enough . Also not every woman was treated badly in medi evil times. noone would have treated a noble woman badly

[Lennier]

PO Samantha hat es glaube erfasst, aber ich werd mich nun nicht über Lennier hier ausquatschen. Wer ihn verstehen will, soll ihn ingame treffen (Wenn ich es denn auch mal wieder ig schaff ). Es gibt einen Unterschied, ob sein Char vor 24 ingamen Jahren nach Illa gefunden hat, dieser sich hochgearbeitet hat ohne dabei sein grundlegendes Wesen zu verändern, oder ob man einen Adligen von auswärts spielt.

Zum Politikwesen muß ich zustimmen. Zu den Zeiten, als die Separation anfing, Silberbrand, Varshikar und die anderen Siedlungen entstanden, gab es mehr Politik. Heute kann man planen und zu Gesprächen einladen wen man will, alles verläuft im Sand.

Für Illa ists gut, dass die WM vorbei ist... und wenn der Sommer wieder nachlässt

[Fooser]

People complain about not enough conflict, then the "bad guys" get pointless advantages, not to mention leniency from players (which ends up reflected through characters), then you get unrealistic behavior. So in terms of those two issues, it just seems like going around in a circle.

[Meriel Pelith]

Since we all (or the most) seem to agree to Nitrams points:

Are we also willing to change it? And how can we do such a thing?

[Neela Rabenfeder]

Zum Politikwesen muß ich zustimmen. Zu den Zeiten, als die Separation anfing, Silberbrand, Varshikar und die anderen Siedlungen entstanden, gab es mehr Politik. Heute kann man planen und zu Gesprächen einladen wen man will, alles verläuft im Sand.

könnte daran liegen, dass es immer die selben gesichter sind die man oben sieht und da das alles "alte" spieler sind und die sich kennen ist alles so festgefahren. nicht zuletzt auch well die spieler die oben sitzen halt das gleiche verhalten an den tag legen, wie man es gewohnt ist.
möglicherweise sind auch die gleichen po's in den oberen schichten verschiedener völker, aber das wäre jetzt reine spekulation

und kommt jetzt blos nicht auf die idee, dass ich nach oben möchte

[NirAntae]

I agree with all of Nitram's points, for the most part. I do think however, that there are a few things to point out in counter to them.

About the weather... I know many of us (myself included) have a bad habit of just watching the text input if *we* aren't actually moving around. Thus, we may miss the fact that it starts to rain. Would it be too impossible to add in a text-flash like it used to do? 'It starts to rain/snow/get foggy', 'the sky clears again', etc?

As to the matter of nobility/social rank... for the most part, I very much agree. Very much. No one gives the 'nobility' the proper respect they should be given with this being a medieval setting. On the other hand, however, sometimes there *are* valid RP reasons for that, such as with my main character Maggie. Ask Aristeaus... even when she was a complete 'nobody'... she had good, valid reasons for not bowing and scraping. Yet even now, she remains strictly respectful to those in power, even if she doesn't bow and scrape.

And as for conflict... that is going to be very hard to bring about until the community is a little more accepting of the difference of IC and OOC. Right now, there is too much crossing, too much of 'I hate your character so I hate you too'. It is absolutely critical to get good conflict going that this issue is cleared up first.

[Miklorius]

When I started Illa some month ago, I was overwhelmed by the politics and intrigues between TB and the GR! But there was no great clash yet and all other things (Blackstone cult) "silted up" a bit.

On the other hand I think that the actual active leaders do have power to move things because they can command their followers.
But they don't have impressive power like a real king or similar.
And that's the same thing with nobles on Gobiath. There is no power structure on the isle, especially for persons who are nobles outside of Gobiath:
Why should I treat a self-claimed "prince" or "lady" with humbleness etc.? If I don't do it, nothing will happen to me here on Gobiath (aside Samantha is gonna burn me with hellfire).

About the weather... I know many of us (myself included) have a bad habit of just watching the text input if *we* aren't actually moving around. Thus, we may miss the fact that it starts to rain. Would it be too impossible to add in a text-flash like it used to do? 'It starts to rain/snow/get foggy', 'the sky clears again', etc?

Eh, I thought that all weather effects have graphical effects now...?

[Korwin]

That really has to change...i try to play a noble mage as good as possible. but i just earn dislikes, jokes and respectless behaviour ingame. simply because she doesnt behave like everyone else. friendly and buddy like to everyone crossing her path.

Why does this have to change? Although Samantha may have once been a noble, she lost everything that made her a noble when she came to Trollsbane. No money, and no power. Apart from behavior, Samantha is a commoner, and it's not your behavior that ever makes you a noble, it's your influence. Nobles either became nobles through inheritance, or plain struggle. They had to work for it, or they were born into it, and there's nothing to be born into on Gobaith.

Samantha earns dislikes because she acts like a noble, she's about as likeable as dirt. Why should everyone be friendly to her? Commoners, which is what Trollsbane is largely composed of, do not like nobles. They never liked them, medieval or not. The only reason nobles got any respect was because it was necessary, they called the shots, and you had to play by those rules. The only influence Samantha has is over mages, she doesn't have any influence over commoners, and you shouldn't expect it.

The same goes for Ghorn. People should like a boisterous, aggressive, easy to hate character just because he's a dwarf? "Oh, he threatened to cut you in half with his axe? That's alright; he's just a dwarf, that's what he does. Be his friend!" I don't think so.

Guess what, other players wanted to do things with their characters that didn't happen. Other people wanted to have their characters become mages, while you got appointed the arch-mage, given spells, given items, and now you complain because OTHER characters don't act the way you want them to? Consider yourself lucky that you're even playing that archmage, and that king, because those opportunities aren’t given to every player who wants them.

[Nalzaxx]

On all counts I agree with Nitram.

I personally always react to the weather and time of day when I am RPing. It just makes it so much more interesting and enjoyable to warm your hands in the fire as you watch the first rays of sunlight on the horizon. Or pull your collar up and dash to the tavern in a thunderstorm. However I am aware not everyone does. I attribute this purely to laziness. As mentioned before, people are FAR too happy just to idle by the shop doing nothing. It takes a fair amount of RP to involve some people when they are in this state. Solution? Stop being such lazy gits, Im sure there have been times we all idle at the shop, so what we have to do is begin reacting and interacting.


Nobility and social rank as Orren rightly points out, are there, but have to be earned WITHIN Gobaith. Think of it, if some hugely powerful and influential king comes to your little town with no money, no followers, and no army to beat you into submission and then orders you to do something. Well, why should you? Whereas if they actually hold political and economic power within Gobiath they are listened to. I personally find that Nalzaxx is very well respected within town. Feared, loathed and hated Yes, but everyone can see the power that Nalzaxx has earnt himself and therefore treat him respectfully. If not, they are flatly ignored. I think people SHOULD respect characters such as Samantha and Ghorn. Because although they may be rough and unlikeable they both still hold a tremendous amount of power in the isle. (Assuming their followers were active) One is the Archmagess of Gobiath and the other King of the Dwarves, these characters should be shown respect because they can influence things. The problem comes in that for OOC reasons their power is really quite hollow. As mentioned, Ghorn's dwarves are few and far between so Ghorn in all actuality has very little authority, and thus respect. The solution is either to make those in power truly powerful. Or to give the benefit of the doubt to these players and assume that thier vast kingdoms do actually exist. (RPing guards being around when there arn't any etc etc)


As for conflict, well, there was a chance with the dwarves and Trollsbane over the tavern. However, running in the vein of being un-medievil no-one made the final push to go to war over it and so it fizzled. There will of course by huge conflicts with the temple arising, and you can see them happening already, (Kudos to Gwen and Darius) and I can assure that once the temple has a place to call home (we are still waiting on a temple building) there will be a change in their patterns. Of course this doesn't have to be directly against Trollsbane. I have already thought our first targets would be the dwarves instead. I would not say the temple are tolerated in town at all, when we walk down the street people are fairly good with their RP concerning a lich. However they know it is pure foolishness to attack a much stronger foe than themselves. And besides this, they are aware that the town guards are looking out for the temple members. It is not so much they do not WANT to obliterate us, so much as they feel they are not ABLE. Stephen may seem to be taking a very un-medievil approach to the temple, however there may be alterior motives towards his actions, you will just have to get IG and find out.

I loose thread of what I was saying here so I will wrap up shortly. Yes I agree with what Nitram said, however it is up to us to work to resolve it.

[Llama]

Not to complain or anything, but have you ever seen a "General Counciller" of a group of people die, and the people do absolutly nothing?

People don't appriciate ranks, not even earned ones... they only fear getting beaten up.. this is the problem; we need less tanks, and more people talking...and a way to remove the tanks without getting an army of characters...

Personally I really envy PO Mazrian, we should be like him... seriously; he doesn't ctrl+click, but he can control others with ease...

[Arameh]

What is your point with your 'tanks' and 'army of knights'? Maybe cause you havent been much ig lately..there is only one knight, and few 'tanks' anymore, and I still dont get your point..

[Cliu Beothach]

Character traits do not include others reactions. This game shouldn't be predictable at all (atleast not in a forced sense), we are here to RP and coming in the game thinking "I want this char to be hated" or "I want this char to be liked" will only lead to disappoint. It isn't about how others react, but how you react to their actions.

[Juniper Onyx]

Yes...that is so. Most characters dont think medi-evil like. They think modern like. Human rights, UNO, democracy...And that is a big problem. All that hasnt existed in a medi-evil society. The guard punches the thief who insults him? what ever...thats normal. but no, not in illa. there everyone shouts at the guard that he tortures the thief...that is plain stupid

A good explanation is the temple stuff. Stephen says "as long as they dont do a crime, they are allowed to enter". sorry, but that is 100 % NOT medi-evil...in medi evil times every man who stood in the town and claimed that he whorships satan would have be burned immediately, after he got tortured...if he is still alive. because mostly the citizens around would have thrown stones immediately at him.

And in illa? The temple claims to whorship someone who is the satan of illarion. most dont care. what ever...let them whorship the pure evil, enemy of all good and alive. as long as they dont do a crime we won't care.

That is bad roleplay in my eyes, very bad. it is not medi-evil roleplay, it is modern life roleplay

And there we have to change aswell. Many of us have also start to think medi-evil like with their chars. not modern like. we have to step away from the civil rights, democracy and all we have today, and forget it when playing our chars. because the world of our chars don't know all that modern stuff.

M'lady, Kudos on hitting the problem on the head. The way we think of our characters and how they 'should' react is a constant problem. Perhaps it must take other players with good RP to help educate the others. Shame and disgrace are powerful motivators.

I also agree with everything Nitram is saying and it appears everyone else is too, so I won't expound on those points.

Yet, I know some people may not like how I play Dusty, but at least I am trying. There are IG reasons for everything he does. I play him as committed to trying to resurrect Greenbriar as well as his business, and I am trying everything I can think of. If I fail, I will be content that I tried.

As far as democracy and such, in the middle ages, towns began to develop, independant of feudal lords. In fact it was this rise of local 'town' governments which swore allegiance to the King that began to make 'Kingdoms' with Kings of real power, not dependant upon the Nobility, which until then, really ran the so-called 'Kingdom'. In fact, the city-state of Venice was the oldest, most 'democratic' city. It is the city I personally try to draw inspiration from with this Hamlet of Greenbriar idea.

Nobility, no matter from where, should be treated with some respect. For years after the fall of Nobility in Europe, they were still respected and revered because of their title alone, even if many were broke or exiled. I don't believe any, save a few, nobles have any real power in Illa, but if you RP, how would a Character know what their power is? They are Noble. That should be enough. Why not allow those players the respect their character deserves? (BTW, Dusty knows he will never be a noble, and treats all nobility with respect due their office, so I am unbiased on this point)

We play Illarion to have fun, true. But why destroy RP for others at the same time? We are all here to have fun and experience from one another. If we RP others as they wish to be percieved, it will be returned and you'll have more fun with your own character. I am.

[Markous]

Another main problem is, that people take things from Ingame too personal. They start bitching in the forums and start bitching about others, when things do not happen like they want it to happen.

If you are frustrated because of Ingame, and thus take the things OOC, we always have this stupid flame-wars in the forums.

[Enwell van Illdoran]

Illarion, Put your lighters up for Nitram


also.. moegliche Loesungen fuer die Probleme...
Ich spiele selbst einen Adligen (Enwell). Als ich mit ihm begonnen hab, hab ihc keinen Respekt als Adliger gekriegt was mich ziemlich angepisst hat. Lennier hat es mal so begruendet dass hier jeder seinen Titel verdient hat, wie lennier selbst. ER ist ja nciht als Graf geboren. Patrics RP mit samantha wiederspricht sich dem Rp von lennier, denn er spielt das erhabene mehr aus. Trotzdem kommen auhc spieler mit ihren chars zu sam und machen n herri weil sie arrogant ist..
das problem daran ist folgendes. Adlige geben sich nciht mit buergerlichen ab. Sie haengen in ihrem schloss oder verbringen zeit mit anderen adligen auf anderen schloessern. Das waere so wie wenn ich rapstar waer (was ich noch werde ) und dann auf der strasse rum rennen wuerde.. der platz fuer das publikunm das mir begegnen will ist vor der buehne nicht neben mir auf der buehne oder ich vor neben ihnen unten. das is der punkt.. in illa gibs keine buehne... aber amy sagte ja daran wird gearbeitet.. dass man zu mindest einen unterschied sieht.

was das auferstehn angeht.. da fehlt es den leuten an einfalls riechtum..
ich hab z. B. Randolph Pintslayer krepieren lassen... Nahc ner zeit vermisste ich das RP mit ihm.. aber ich dachte mir auferstehn lassen waere doof.. der brennt jetzt gluecklich in der hoelle (uuuhm.. )
also hab ich ihm einen unehrliches kind gemacht: Randolan

was den rest angeht.. ey leute denkt einfach mal logisch... es ist nicht so schwer in seiner rolle zu bleiben.. und auch mal zu verliern.. macht eurem char ein paar schwaechen.. ein paar logische schwaechen.. das ist meine taktik gewesen bei randolph (saeufer und sehr leicht reizbar), Enwell (schwaeche fuer frauen) und Lian (aengstlich und gebrechlich)..

dann findet ihr viel schneller n grund zu verliern..

so auf den rest hab ich jetzt kein bock zu antworten.. vieleleicht spaeter