Weapon complaint!

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

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Athian
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Post by Athian »

don't forget the limitations of armor. especially helms. and remember knights were on the battlefield. but never an army of knights. the army itself was composed mainly of soliders who werent' wearing incredibly heavy highly defensive armors. knights rode horses and when on foot never led the charge. in illarion everyone can be a knight if they want to be and dress like a knight if they want to however. if you build in the limitations of armor things become different.

lets look at some shall we?

movement: the heavily armored warrior was slow by comparison to the lighter infantry men. in thicker armor they did not swing sword and axes back in forth at a rate of 4 slashes per second as we have in illarion. in fact there attacks were usually slow and rather easy to dodge. the hard part was taking them down. in head to head combat after a flurry of blows was exchanged the knight was usually onto because of better defense.

field of vision: we have knights who go around wearing helms and acting like there hats. limited field of view in combat was another handicap the knight had to deal with. along with slow turning speeds and movement ability a knight pretty much missed most of what happened on the battlefield. sneaking up on one in the heat of battle would be far easier being his head in encased in a box with a tiny slit in the center.

terrain: the knight killer. anyone remember the crusades? remember why knights were bad in the crusades. armor is subject to it's enviroment, it's extremely heavy and cumbersome on substances like sand. over rocky hills, snow extreme heat. which was the case in the crusades.

now what were the best weapons against heavily armored knights realistically. light swift armor, and a piercing weapon. doesn't sound quite right does it? well faster motion is a huge advantage in battle and percision against a nearly blind target can work out just fine. weapons that pierce were aimed for joints in the armor which were easier to hit then you might think. true the knight in motion might be hard to handle but ti unbending armor areas like the back of the knee for example were easy to puncture. more over with the right amoutn of force applied to a particular point on the armor a knight was easier to toople over. and once his back was to something solid piercing the armor became much easier.

well now i think thats enough for now. but techincal things like this should be taken into account. when thinking about weapons such as those crazy axes and two handed swords which fighters in illarion seem to move by flicking there wrists back and forth. as well as the way they move and fight in those heavy armor. limits for everyone! :wink:
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Taylor
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Post by Taylor »

Hehe, Well said Athian.

Being a prime subject of the topic of Limits, Let me show you some things that i Do to limit myself, since i seem to be one of the few -.-..

1. I wear Light steel armor, Custom made(By who i am not saying :P), that is made very well. For a now 14 year old boy in modern times, this would be more than a burden, But lets not forget that in Medieval times, and 14 that boy could be wearing 40 pounds of armor, swinging a sword or lance and calling himself a squire.

2. Taylor wears no helmet. Although i have been accused of lieing on the matter, I have only once put a helmet on his head and that was because he was told to do so by someone teaching him :P

3. I use one of two weapons: A Simple Two Hander or a War-axe. Both of these are heavy to taylor, But that is what he wants. You'll notice taylor will never swing with "Quick strikes", His strikes are always calm, collected, and swung with dilligence, not untwitting brawn.

4. Taylor wears Leather Leggings, Boots, and Gloves. Granted that in his RP, the Leather gloves are weighted with Metal across the back of his hand and knuckles, they are still what he wants, Heavy.

5. When i fight older, more "Mature" fighters, I play on taylors energy and speed. Being a kid, and in much lighter armor, Taylor could run circles around those heavy armored knights for a few minutes straight without losing his breath (Also contributing to this is training few people know about :P). In this way, if i beat them they don't, in turn, Flame me :P

6. Sure, Most of you think i play taylor much older than he really is. And to this i say take 5 minutes out of your powergaming schedule and spend some time acctually talking to him, He's not as smart as he acts, Just ask good ol' Ath ;) He can't even answer some simple Philisopical Magic questions.

7. Taylor is Half Elf, which makes his hearing and eye sight above the average humans. He can hear and see what most people can't, but he still can't understand whats going on with what he see's or hears close to a quarter of the time.


Just some points :)
Gwynnether
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Post by Gwynnether »

Sorry, I haven't read all. Actually just the first page. The rest I couldn't have been bothered with.
So I just pick out one sentence:
Athian wrote:we need idea's for new weapons and graphics to go along with them
My suggestions would be: We have a lot of weapons and a lot graphics. What we really need is to give them better and similar stats.
So there aren't only one or two good weapons (double axe/bastard sword) but other weapons with similar stats that are actually useful.

My second thought: What about the new fighting system. I don't know if I'm up-to-date, but when it still becomes the fighting system I remember there will be a lot of variety let alone due to the chars attributes.
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Gro'bul
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Post by Gro'bul »

I fear you missed the point.
Mail can sometimes be punctured by a spear or shorn by the blow from a heavy axe or sword and its flexibility means that its wearer is still somewhat vulnerable to blunt weapons. Nevertheless, it was an effective and popular defense for its ability to stop cutting weapons from piercing the skin.
http://www.artofchainmail.com/history.html
This is a very good site especially for chainmail, from what I've researched this guy knows what he's talking about. The Japanese styles styles of chainmail were particularly interesting. I encourage any and everyone to read this.
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Post by Gwynnether »

I fear you missed the point.
Who is 'you' ?
:wink:
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falco1029
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Post by falco1029 »

Taylor wrote:Hehe, Well said Athian.

Being a prime subject of the topic of Limits, Let me show you some things that i Do to limit myself, since i seem to be one of the few -.-..

1. I wear Light steel armor, Custom made(By who i am not saying :P), that is made very well. For a now 14 year old boy in modern times, this would be more than a burden, But lets not forget that in Medieval times, and 14 that boy could be wearing 40 pounds of armor, swinging a sword or lance and calling himself a squire.

2. Taylor wears no helmet. Although i have been accused of lieing on the matter, I have only once put a helmet on his head and that was because he was told to do so by someone teaching him :P

3. I use one of two weapons: A Simple Two Hander or a War-axe. Both of these are heavy to taylor, But that is what he wants. You'll notice taylor will never swing with "Quick strikes", His strikes are always calm, collected, and swung with dilligence, not untwitting brawn.

4. Taylor wears Leather Leggings, Boots, and Gloves. Granted that in his RP, the Leather gloves are weighted with Metal across the back of his hand and knuckles, they are still what he wants, Heavy.

5. When i fight older, more "Mature" fighters, I play on taylors energy and speed. Being a kid, and in much lighter armor, Taylor could run circles around those heavy armored knights for a few minutes straight without losing his breath (Also contributing to this is training few people know about :P). In this way, if i beat them they don't, in turn, Flame me :P

6. Sure, Most of you think i play taylor much older than he really is. And to this i say take 5 minutes out of your powergaming schedule and spend some time acctually talking to him, He's not as smart as he acts, Just ask good ol' Ath ;) He can't even answer some simple Philisopical Magic questions.

7. Taylor is Half Elf, which makes his hearing and eye sight above the average humans. He can hear and see what most people can't, but he still can't understand whats going on with what he see's or hears close to a quarter of the time.


Just some points :)

It isnt necessary to explain yourself, if people want to be stupid about it, let them. Most good rpers limit their characters. For instance, Though Ules cant cast magic again yet, he still wont wear metal. In fact, once someone offered him some metal armor during an attack or something and he said something like "You're offering me metal armor? How would you like it if i flayed a small child and asked you to wear IT?" hehe. Oh crap i just explained myself like i said not to *runs*
Markous
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Post by Markous »

Gwynnether wrote:My second thought: What about the new fighting system. I don't know if I'm up-to-date, but when it still becomes the fighting system I remember there will be a lot of variety let alone due to the chars attributes.
The new fighting system is not yet active. However, it will balance things out:

1. Attacking from the side/back makes more damage, then attacking from the front.

2. You won't hit "the character", but special parts of the characters body. For example his head, or his hands, etc.

2. "Stiffness" was added, e.g. for metal armors it is higher, then for clothes. This will affect the fighting in some places. It will then be able that a quick dagger fighter in leather beats a "platemail hero with big axe".

3. Some new skills will be added, making the system more complex. There will be no char, that is perfect against everyone. Think of the rock-paper-scissors effect.
Gwynnether
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Post by Gwynnether »

Markous wrote: The new fighting system is not yet active. However, it will balance things out:

1. Attacking from the side/back makes more damage, then attacking from the front.

2. You won't hit "the character", but special parts of the characters body. For example his head, or his hands, etc.

2. "Stiffness" was added, e.g. for metal armors it is higher, then for clothes. This will affect the fighting in some places. It will then be able that a quick dagger fighter in leather beats a "platemail hero with big axe".

3. Some new skills will be added, making the system more complex. There will be no char, that is perfect against everyone. Think of the rock-paper-scissors effect.

That sounds absolutely lovely.
Just out of curiousity: Do you have vaguely idea when the new fighting system is to be introduced?
Markous
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Post by Markous »

Gwynnether wrote:That sounds absolutely lovely.
Just out of curiousity: Do you have vaguely idea when the new fighting system is to be introduced?
The system itself was already scripted to the finish. (Thanks to Nitram :))

I think it will be introduced in the near future when some things on the server are changed.
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Misjbar
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Post by Misjbar »

Nitram mentioned next server-update.
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falco1029
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Post by falco1029 »

yeah next server update, which should be soon. And afterwards we'll all see a new merchant and a npc quest. wheeee!
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