Proposal: Tired

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:07 pm

The fact I didn't step back was due to the fact that I WAS LAGGED... this is persistant... never mind. But if the "great" Pendar takes so long to defeat a person with a blade and no armor, what chances do the rest of us have? 8 blows is long considering...

You can play a 90-min football match, yet then still have enough lack of fatigue to dig up the garden afterwards? You play, and you need a rest... then you go dig up the garden, then you go get another rest..

"High bow skill can kill an orc in 6 arrows"...trust me, we are talking MAJOR skill here, more than your relative slashing, arrows are quite weak right now... Not everyone is Dravish...

RE: Assassins, most famous people are surrounded by guards, so assasssins are stealthy...

Assassin>? #me goes to Pendar with a War axe, #me kills a person protecting Pendar, #me finally kills Pendar.

Is THAT an Assassin? its more than a massacre

Oh and Raven RPed killing you [if he was the guy Callith decapitated], he didn't cut you to shreds when you were weak.

RE: theif > That game is realistic... I mean if your just walking down the street and someone sneaks up on you and hits you across the head, you have no real chance.

If you know the person is there, you might just try to parry it.

I suggest the tiredness idea for realism: Let me use your example, if you play 90 mins of football, you will not in the middle of the game, stop learning anything new... but after the game, you will be unable to dodge anything if someone jumps and tries to kill you. Also the aching muscels will also make it difficult.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:29 pm

The fact I didn't step back was due to the fact that I WAS LAGGED... this is persistant... never mind. But if the "great" Pendar takes so long to defeat a person with a blade and no armor, what chances do the rest of us have? 8 blows is long considering...

I am not sure I appreciate your tone here simply as you seem to imply that Pendar is achieving something others cannot.
I would question the sanity of any one who fought with "mummie swords" unarmored. With out any protection 8 blows is a long time.
The rest of "you" who ever you may be have the chance same as me to gain skills.
To often in Illarion people fall into the "trap" of saying my character is not good enough something must be done.

Arrows troll or oger orcs are player characters mostly it would be stat variable. As to dravish he is an "NPC" for all intents and purposes and has no place in this discussion.

Exactly Raven and Anither both looked at the client limitations and found a way to RP there "fantasy". I would say and assasin is a heavy rp role...

Is THAT an Assassin? its more than a massacre

It is a hired killer doing what a hired killer does, as to people guarding I have not encountered many full time "people watchers" in Illarion.

I do understand why you suggested it I can see your logic I believe an earlier post I stated I think this is a great proposal that would not fit in with what most people want from Illarion.
In closing let me repeat Illarion currently is not conducive to assasins I do not see a skill set for assasin. I do not see weapons catered to assasins, so if one wishes to play a combat centred role that is "uncatered" expect a rough ride.
Perhaps in days to come we will see sneak,critial attack,traps and other assasin features. We currently dont have it so rejuggeling an entire game system to penalise skilled characters and god help the low level characters. To facilitate fatigue does not strike me as the way forward.
Brian

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:40 pm

Sorry about my 'tone', but currently i'm having major internet problems, and just the thought of the word lag makes me angry.. The whole connection is one whole lagfest.

"WIthout any protection 8 blows is a long time"
My point exactly, so how can you assassinate somebody who is armoured, and armed well?

I referred to Dravish as a poetical exageration, you need to be very good with a bow to even kill a mummy with 6 arrows

Assassins and people killers are all very different things, as for full time guards.. well Pendar had a few outside the inn that day, and there were skeletons ect... nobody could have entered on his own...

The reasons why i wish fatigue is this:

1) Realism
2) Balance between new players and older players

Currently this balance depends on the stats... if you train for 2 time per day, and so do I, then even if we learn at the same rate, i will never reach you.
In other skills, crafting, there is no need for it, for nobody is everywhere at the same time... yet fighting seems to be a sort of competition

3) Tactics > A war is brewing, I think that there will soon be a war; Dravish and the Orcs ect.. VS TB... and thats when we need tactics apart from hack/slash...

Also I would like more realism, so you could have ambushes and stuff like that

4) I don't like the current Learning Cap for fighting.. when you are mentally tired, then you won't fight, not wont learn

..

PS: Wow, this must be the longest discussition which didn't turn into a flame war...

Liles · Post by **Liles** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:09 pm

I think this is just another thing that will suck the fun out of Illarion. This is a game.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:12 pm

"WIthout any protection 8 blows is a long time"

If i had used two red daggers or two long swords 3 would have killed you i think.

Pendar had a few because he was wounded and it was unsual to see such a gathering. Pendar can often be found wandering alone with cait as well

. How ever I am not saying this makes assasinateing him easy.

Currently this balance depends on the stats... if you train for 2 time per day, and so do I, then even if we learn at the same rate, i will never reach you.

Yes stats play a huge part, how ever that statement is not correct. I started Pendar the day the whipe happened. I was infact the best warrior on the island for a week I think, now i dont think I am even close.
The reason is simple at a "lower" levels your literally flying up in skill with each trip to the mummies. Once you reach a certain level of mastery learning is considerabley slower many people have caught me and I have over taken others.
MMORPGS are always unbalanced as old players who train daily will always have an advantage. No game has managed to create a system that allows one to excel with out time. Nature of the beast i fear.

There are tatics we use in game now same as i know ways for my low skill character to take out a "tank" if i wished to a little imagination

. How ever the fatigue idea is double edged a new player is going to struggle even more and feel ever more handicapped by this, imagine trying to train a new character. They nearly die going down to the mummies any way and often get surrounded. Suddenly fatigue kicks in your surrounded it takes you 30 blows to break free.....bang your dead.

It is only peoples "heads" that an assasin cant use a warhammer or large axe. It is an image people wish to rp and i tell out it is the least managed image in game. Perhaps we need to be more flexable instead of trying to tweak the system to facilitate one concept.

Fighting is competative by nature, how ever there are so many variables.
Statistical,equipment,luck,food level and terain can all play a role in even simple duels.
End of the day PKing takes skills, I mean turning people into clouds not in the "reskill ban sense". You put the time in and build skills you will find you best a great many people. Also all games need heros use to be Aristeaus and Wiergraf amongst others who were lords of battle. It is an rp game sure we eventually end up with "super heros"
Brian

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:43 pm

Hadrian, its called Live-Action Roleplay, go try it, not only is it more entertaining, but it is much much easier than trying to script reality.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:27 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
The reasons why i wish fatigue is this:
2) Balance between new players and older players

The main problem is that fatigue will just limit the amount you can do even further. It won't put order to chaos, it'll just define the line even further.

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:57 am

There don't have to be a balance between new players and old players. old characters who live since a longer time on the isle HAVE advantages, and that is good. Why do you want the new chars to be immediately similar levelled with old chars who did so much to be better in something?

don't you think it is unfair for older players with older chars when the new chars are very soon and easily at their level? That makes all their work before useless.

A game in which every char can do the same or is same levelled is not much fun, diversity brings fun. And their older chars with their players who play this game since a longer time have advantages, thats their good right.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:00 am

just don't overdo it. Too much realism can kill.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:32 pm

Balance in fighting...

Using stupid figures..

If a newbie does max 10 damage... and is 50% tired.. he will do 5 damage.. not much difference

If an expert does max 100 damage and is 50% tired.. he will do 50 damage... which is a matter of life and death

---

So the only way to kill an expert player is using

: 1) An expert player > Which are all RPed as being good, with few exceptions
2) A group of people

Doesn't make much sense

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:34 pm

Let's put it like this.

A knight, with a lifetime experience, isn't likely to lose to someone who has just picked up a sword, even if tired. However, he may lose to some as experienced as him, or to a group of less experienced people. It makes perfect sense.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:37 pm

If the Knight is sleeping, it takes only one shot... If he doesn't know the person is behind him, its faster.

In Japan, the best assassins where Geisha, women there to entertain, then kill their targets while they slept/rested.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:40 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:So the only way to kill an expert player is using

your head.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:51 pm

Yes, Hadrian. But that is not relevant to this discussion. If someone wants to RP their character being killed in their sleep or whatever, that's fine. It's not like our characters sleep on a technical level, so it has to be RPed.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:54 pm

Something not much to do with discussion:

COuld we reach an agreement that people resting, talking or sitting calmly around a campfire do not wear armor?

1) more RP
2) Surprise attacks
3) Assassins given a chance

PS: Contrary to what you may think, i don't have an assassin character...

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:56 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:COuld we reach an agreement that people resting, talking or sitting calmly around a campfire do not wear armor?

No.

Liles · Post by **Liles** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:00 pm

Now my char always wears his armour, due to the assassin attemps on him. He used to not wear armour for many tasks like, smithing, mining, smelting but if he was sitting around he would wear it.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:11 pm

When your character is working you shouldn't be wearing armour.
Being Tired is something each player must decide how they want to roleplay. You must remember that armour makes you lumber and will tire anyone.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:14 pm

That's actually incorrect. Armor is made to protect, it's usually form-fitting, and designed so you can wear it without any encumberment like a suit of heavy clothing. Besides that people who have motivation to frequently don armor on their bodies are most likely already versed and conditioned in strenous activity while wearing their coats.

Actually, we'd have to agree on something else: Which professions/"classes" wear which armor (or don't wear armor), and what activities would make a character warrant going through the hassle of removing the armor (or putting it on in the first place.) Long story made short, armor is an almost daily thing for those for whom it is daily, and for those for whom it is an uncommon tool, such goes for their use of armor too.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:03 am

Hadrian, can't you accept that everyone seems to be against your idea and don't think that it is something which will make the game more fun?

You want for 3-4 characters who are possible ingame an advantage, an advantage which will take alot of fun from the game for hundred other characters. That makes no sense.

If Assassins want to be good they have to train and be smart. I don'T want new chars ingame which are very fast possible to kill experienced characters which worked hard and long to become strong.

Please forget your idea, and work on some other which are less senseless.