Attributes unfair?

Elminister · Post by **Elminister** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:01 pm

Wer es übersetzen möchte, kann es gerne tun, aber es gilt eigentlich in erster Linie den GMs:

Ist es beabsichtigt, dass der Elf bei der Attributsverteilung insgesamt nur 82 Punkte hat, während alle anderen Völker 86 haben?
Ich meine, so toll in Essence 20 zu haben, ist es auch nicht, oder? *G*

Cirindil Atarion · Post by **Cirindil Atarion** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:06 pm

Translation:

A question for the GMs, Is it intended so that the elves only get 82 points in the distribution of attributes, while all other races have 86 points?

I hope I got your meaning right, Elminister.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:28 pm

I noticed that Elves get less attribute points than any other races too.

Pilzbaizza · Post by **Pilzbaizza** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:57 pm

das ist beabsichtigt hat u.a. mit den starken rp vorteilen von elfen zutun.....

Zare · Post by **Zare** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:10 pm

I'm not quite certain what pilzbaizza said, because online translators are junk and what I got makes no sense at all.

But anyway, at the risk of repeating something already said:
I'm pretty sure that somebody has inquired about elves low amount of attribute points. If I remember correctly, the reason for this is because elves live for so long, and some sort of age system will be implemented, giving elves the advantage. However, I do sure hope they don't implement an age system and just give elves more attributes. I'd rather not have my character die off from old age...

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:03 pm

Actually, don't elves have higher minimum stats than most charcters? or are those being counted too in that count?

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:48 pm

When creating a char, if you set all your attributes to 10 then you will have 6 attribute points remaining, unless you are an Elf, which will only have 2 remaining.

Pilzbaizza · Post by **Pilzbaizza** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:49 pm

in english again, one reason for this is that elfes have many rp-advantages, e.g. like that they doesnt must sleep (only ~4h meditation) or that they have a so long life

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:20 am

they "Doesnt must sleep"?

I think you mean that they "don't have to sleep"

.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:10 am

No, I think he means AD&D elves. Illarion is not AD&D.
If I'm mistaken, somebody please correct me.
But last time I checked http://www.moonsilver.de , there was nothing about this meditative sleep; that's a concept of elves I only know from AD&D settings.

And the thought of an age system letting your characters die off sounds more and more stupid, the more I think of it.

Oh yeah, so let's assume I go to another country for studying for six months, and have little to no access to computers or internet. I return eventually, and find I can't play my character anymore, because the illarion clock went on without me.

Not cool.

The elves should have stat points equal to every other racial type, imho.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:54 am

It was often said that the lower number of attribute points for elves is to balance their long lifespan.
The idea of having characters die from age automatically is horrible. It would most likely result in
a) Most people playing elves
b) Every new character having minimum required age

Also it would interupt peoples roleplay when their character suddenly is dead without having any control over it. And don't come with youth potions or the like, this is something for necromancers and selfish nobles but not for the average char. Players at least need the possibility to choose the moment of death themselves so they can roleplay it and not just *poof*- char gone.

Alongside with the attribute point thing I also pointed out something else some time ago:
A character should be able to be absolutely mediocre in every attribute within the borders set by his race
Or in mathematical shape:

Attribute value = (Maximum value - Minimum value)/ 2 + Minimum value

Right now, this is not possible for any race. For each race attribute points need to be raised to allow entirely mediocre stats

Pilzbaizza · Post by **Pilzbaizza** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:12 pm

i mean illarion, it comes from damien....

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:45 pm

Elves can progress in one single attribute more than the other races, but unlike, say, a human or lizardman, they can't be "jacks of all trades and masters of none."

So, there's still fine balance.

Elminister · Post by **Elminister** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:19 pm

I think Orcs and Lizards have better skills to be master in for most people... I mean to have Essence on 20 - okay... but need a lot of points which you actually could have put into Constitution to have the same effect.

Moskher Heszche · Post by **Moskher Heszche** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:26 pm

It depends on a few things. First of all, is there a curve at all in the attributes. How much better is a 20 than an 18?

Not knowing the above, I would still say that the amount of skill points is still too low in comparison with the other races. Perhaps take off 2 points. There are other races with higher maximums on certain skills. Why aren't points taken away from them?

I don't personally understand the argument that because they have a long lifespan and don't have to sleep it balances out. In dungeons and dragons, they balance out things partly that way, because it is helpful. (Even considering that, it only pads the benefits. It's not really used as an all-out balancer) In Illarion, it's not so helpful. It's only a difference between saying, "I'm off to bed" when you log out or saying "I'm off to meditate." Roleplaying benefits and physical benefits should be entirely seperated, because there is no way to measure how handy those roleplaying benefits have become.

Cirindil Atarion · Post by **Cirindil Atarion** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:59 pm

In my opinion, the lack of attribute points for elves in comparison to the other races could be balanced out if elves had other special abilities that other races do not.

Examples of these uniquely innate talents might be infrared vision, acute senses, affinity with magic and nature, walking silently and lightly, and so on, which elves usually possess in fantasy.

Moskher Heszche · Post by **Moskher Heszche** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:04 pm

I agree, Cirindil. But so little of that could be actually implemented into the system. I believe that to a certain extent, they do have an affinity with druidism and magic, but every race has their own affinities with different skills, so that is moot.

The rest of them wouldn't be so easily implemented into the system, and thus would become rp benefits rather than physical ones (I define physical benefits as ones that there is actually some code backing it up in the client and/or server).

For example, if elves are able to walk silently, how would this be implemented?

Elminister · Post by **Elminister** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:28 pm

I have an easier solution:
Just bring the max. points up to 86

Would be only a problem for the majority who has already a character... Maybe those can update their character if needed by GM's ((ok, that sounds like having a lot of work to do but hey - how many elf-players do actually take that much care about their attributes if they already took elves who have less ;P))

Giving them special abilities would just give them a more advance than other races with more attributes I think - it depends on the player

Anyways I'd like to hear some statement from the Editors themselves. Maybe it is really just a mistake which noone ever told (would be surprising but possible)?