Planned stuff for next version

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Fri May 18, 2001 10:08 am

We plan to include at least the following:
- Items will have a weight You can store your items in a depot/bank, but can't carry unlimited like now. This will be one step to bring some balance. You can't run around with hundreds of mana potions, miners must work on their ore from time to time, when they can't carry any more, physicaly weak mages can't run around with heavy armor....
- mages will have a magic wand. When put in one hand, you can attack (i.e. CTRL leftclick) someone, but it doesn't make damage (although it can parry). Spells you cast now, will be directed to your current target. This makes it possible to strike moving targets.
- some minor changes, like no double clienting, changed inch for centimeters, new items...
- Game masters will have the abilit to create monsters for quests.

Some things that may be in this, or the following version are:
- profession system
- metal armor hindering magic

In my opinion, we can start to balance the system, after these changes have been made. Prices for goods can be changed to a reasonable level, so trading can happen. Some items will be more expensive, to give people a goal to work for. Monster strength can be adjusted, the professions can be balanced.

Antarion · Post by **Antarion** » Fri May 18, 2001 12:28 pm

GREAT! These are things that could make Illarion more interesting.
Agrimase, Darlok and I were talking about a bank/depot just yesterday. The weight would balance the game a lot.
But we were talking also about some special metals/materials. Like Mithril or Adamant (or some other names for that). You would just have to change the colour of ore and the items. Could have perhaps less weight. Or for weapons, the same damage, but a bit higher hitrate.
But they should be as hard to find as gold - or even harder.
I think, this would be a small part, but could add a bit of spice, without unbalancing the game.

Sir Draken · Post by **Sir Draken** » Fri May 18, 2001 4:06 pm

hmmm...sounds cool bror

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri May 18, 2001 7:09 pm

Yeah ! Go Bror Go !!! Yipeeee!!!
What about things that will be expensive to make, things smithed with ore AND silver bars (rare metal, perhaps even magical metal, mithril and stuff)?
Necessary will be leather armors, perhaps wooden and obsidian armors too (lke splint mail). They will be much more expensive than metal armor, but the only way for magic users to protect themselves. Prices for such armors should lie at about 10 silver bars AND HIGHER.
Hmm yes, there's the graphics problem still...
There could be other armors specialy made for mages (armored robes), expensive, magical, and looking expensive =) mages must represent some status.
hehe...

(Edited by Damien at 7:10 pm on May 18, 2001)

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Fri May 18, 2001 7:44 pm

HEY.
Can you make items so they can be put ON counters now?
And maybe some kinda thing so I can sell stuff at my store
and not have to go out to the depot to get supplies.
Or maybe just place the depot place somewhere easy to get to.
Also i like the Laberynth up by the mummies, although you really cant get lostr unless
you IQ is less than 10.

Erdrick

Jeanderaux · Post by **Jeanderaux** » Fri May 18, 2001 7:54 pm

Sounds great Bror.

I've got an idea. How about chests dont decay and the stuff in them doesent either. This way you could stash stuff away from town, just in case you want to 'bury' your treasure because you dont trust banks.

The Silent One · Post by **The Silent One** » Sat May 19, 2001 12:27 am

bror you read my thoughts how could we need anything more then that exept i think when you make it so mages cant use all amour then you should make robes that only raise you'r magic and have no parry and some that have only a little parry but cost 40 ingots and all mages cant wear any amour and you make a vocation that can enchant amour and cloth so mages can use them and it raies parry and stuff and these enchanters should be able to use special spells that can make you faster have mor eparry for a amount of time that way mages clould have amaour and still be role playing

join The Titans http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/TheTitansTT

Alexander · Post by **Alexander** » Sat May 19, 2001 12:46 am

YAY *cheers* magic tageting system

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sat May 19, 2001 3:30 pm

Iron related metal disturbs the flow of magic energies.
Mages could wear armor made from silver (that is not as hard as steel, and hell expensive) or mithril (extremely expensive, lighter than steel), or obsidian armors (light, extremely expensive). There could be different armor materials a mage could use without having problems with spellcasting. I made a list of possible armor stuff (but that needs graphics...):
- soft leather
- wooden armor parts (cheap)
- hard leather (no studded leather)
- bone armor (cheaper than iron)
- iron armor parts
- obsidian armor parts (expensive, lighter than iron)
- mithril armor parts (expensive, lighter and better than iron)

There could be different armor types made from these materials and iron (steel) :
-chain or pellet armor (shirt,pants,robes,shoes,gloves)
-scale armor (shirt,pants,robes,shoes,gloves)
-banded armor (shirt,pants,robes,shoes,gloves)
-plated armor (shirt,pants,robes,shoes,gloves)
-breastplate (shirt,pants,robes,shoes,gloves)
-full plate armor (shirt,pants,robes,shoes,gloves)

Definition :
shirt : armor shirt with or without arms
pants : armored pants
robes : armored robes, without iron materials, very expensive, still need pants too
shoes : armored shoes or boots
gloves : hand protection

Physical extensions of these armor combination types can be :
- light
- heavy
- light (spiked)
- heavy(spiked)

Armors can be simply functional, or more expensive for proud (and rich) people :
-engraved
-ornate

Other attributes for armor:
-enchanted ( priest magic )
-protected ( spellcaster magic )
-holy ( priest magic )
-magic ( spellcaster magic )
-runed ( engraved with magic and/or holy runes )

The big disadvantage for mages would be, to wear a good armor, he needs much much much much money AND rare materials.
The most mages would simply rely on magic protection spells instead.

If some people could make that much graphics...

Another important point would be, heavy armors would slow the people down. That means, people need a weight system with light load, medium load, heavy load, very heavy load, and overloaded.(worn stuff is a bit lighter than in inventory for the weight is put to the body)

(Edited by Damien at 3:44 pm on May 19, 2001)

Farlorn · Post by **Farlorn** » Sat May 19, 2001 7:46 pm

sounds Great !!!

one question... will "healing" be casted on the target, or on yourself?

and Damien: If armor is taken away from Mages to stop "fightermages", all armor should be, as expensive and rare is not that great problem at the moment. If it's just because of roleplaying, or this problem can be handled somehow I LOVE your ideas (especially the wooden armor

)

Farlorn

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sun May 20, 2001 1:56 am

Nope. The problem is, mages CAN use armor in almost all fantasy stories. You will find almost none that prohibits mages from using armor, especially none that makes up character classes !!!
Metal armor may be a problem for spellcasters, but even that isn't related to s/f backgrounds.

The only probnlem is, mages may get too powerful in most rpg systems. So the most "poor" systems have no beter ideas than stop mages using armors...

Illarion is not such a poor system. They will find better ways of balancing it. For example, fighters could learn better sword attacks than mages. And that's only ONE example.

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Mon May 21, 2001 1:33 am

Damien, sounds great, but:
- Too many grafix for poor Martin.
- Only the player would be able to see it.
The other players would see an ordinary scrubby knight.

But I do like the idea.
Boy, sure sounds fun making up cool armor names and stuff.
Oh, and Bror, I want an answer about putting items on counters.
Is there going to be signposts in new version?
Any release date yet?

Keep up good work GM's.

Erdrick

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Mon May 21, 2001 2:15 am

Not too many graphics for poor martin. IF some people get started making some graphics, and put them on a pink (255.0.255) background color, in GIF format, then martin would not have that much work with these.
I myself have tried making some graphics, but my skills in creating graphics are not good enough even after some practice. So i have chosen to help with a part where i know that i can deliver some good work.
If we want some stuff, we must make it. We cannot leave all work to the GMs and then shout for things. That's what i mean.

The more graphics exist, the higher chances are there that they will be used. Dammn high chances if the graphic is good i guess.

Let's become productive people !

(Edited by Damien at 2:18 am on May 21, 2001)

Sskakzk'krr · Post by **Sskakzk'krr** » Mon May 21, 2001 6:49 am

I would just like to be able to sit in chairs

MD
ps:Good job. This game has came a long ways.

(Edited by Aries at 6:50 am on May 21, 2001)

Captain Kirk · Post by **Captain Kirk** » Mon May 21, 2001 10:48 am

Hallo

to balance better cut down the dumb mages powers to cast (and thier mag res?) (dumb= all with <13 int i mean the dumb only for magic and co (languages and so on) coz i think who want play a mage cant have maxed str and co but only a int of 5 or so)

why shouldnt a trained mage castin in full armor ?? coz when he cast while u attack him u can hit him very easy
u cab try it at urself in the spider cave for example

what will happen to my char coz i have soooo many things in my pockets that he cant move than anymore or ??

Bye
Read ya
MfG

Capt. Kirk

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon May 21, 2001 3:44 pm

Just one thing bror, you really must hate mages. I like the whole armor thing, but you shouldn't make it so they have to carry a wand in one hand, unless that wand has as much if not more parry then a lion/knight shield. What you basically saying is if you want to survive in illarion you have to be a fighter because as a mage you can't wear the best armor or your casting is worse and you have to wear a staff in one hand, so you can't wear double shields to protect yourself.

Now I've been testing each race, and i found that halflings are the only ones with a chance of surviving a hit by a trained fighter, and thats only with two shields and its still risky. If you take away mages armor, and lessen their parry, they are screwed. YOu should either make staff with high parry, or still allow us to wear two shields.

Another way to balance it would to make a teleportation spell so you can get away in a fight, i mean you already have a rune for it. Also maybe you give us some spells that allow us to constuct barriers to trap and/or protect ourselve, like a earth wall that lasts as long as a field. Also make some better spells, like area spells that hit like every other space, like a checker board and call it lightning storm or something. You also need to make it so fighters( players with really high dex, and str) cannot have max resistance. Their is a player named gulard who is an extreme fighter, i can not survive more than 2 hits unless with my halfling who he can not hit, and has max resistance, which is rediculous. You should make it so this is not possible, or you have characters with no equal.( this is not me complaining, i got lots of respect for the lizard).

Now if you played illarion once in a while you'd see how mages are already at an advantage, and your just gonna make it worse. The only good idea is the auto target, you should make it possible for us to target multiple players though so we have at least a little area spells.

Dax · Post by **Dax** » Mon May 21, 2001 4:52 pm

Friends,

I have a few questions.

With the way most people are now... being apt in Fighting AND magic.. what do you classify as a mage?

How do you tell who can wear armor and who can't?

Are you simply going by.. they can be a great fighter and still know magic but have to take off armor and hold wand to use it?

Secondly I hear alot of gripes about the mages robes armor and magic.

As far as mages go, my impression is that they have alot of knowledge. If you imagine reading books and spells and practicing endless hours to perfect them.. many mage's would also be scholars having the ability to read and write.

All this would take alot of time, which shows the more strong AND wise mage's are usually older and not as eager to join a fight when not neccesary.

A smart mage would have many spells in thier repitoir,

Spells for suprise attack, spells for attacking, powerful attack, defensive spells, and my favorite last resort spells.

A good mage does not need shields or weapons or armor in battle because they are mentally prepared and have thier spells to protect them and fend of others.

All of this means Defensive spells are needed badly for mages and the most difficult thing will be balancing the mages power.

I still belive for skills thier should be more to obtain that the present one bar. After that bar is filled it should change color and start anew.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Tue May 22, 2001 3:56 am

The reason mages need good armor and shields to protect themselves is because most mages don't put their con and agility high if they really want to be a good mage. Now i can be the most mentally prepared person in the world, but how is knowing the 4th king of england gonna stop a sword? You absolutely cannot fire off a spell and hope to survive a fighters hit, its suicide. Now if your lucky enough to hit a fighter with a spell you then have to run like hell because you got a pissed off person coming for you.

Now i think that the way to balance things would be to count how you put your stats as a percent. For example a person who has 10 strenth has 100% attack, while a peson with 16 str has 160% attack. THis could be a way to determine how hight they can get in the skill. A person with 3 intel can't be a good mage becuase theri spells/resistance can't get higher than 30% of a bar, while a person with 16 int can get their mage skills up to 160% and be a serious mage and be able to deal serious damage with spells, so they can hold their own against a fighter with low int. It works both ways, a mage can't parry to well with a 6 agi, becuase they only have 60% agility while a fighter has 19 str and dex can whoop there ass, but can't handle their spells for too long becuase he can only train his resistance 50% of the way against the mages 160% mage power.

This is just a rough idea, so don't be to harsh in comments. Its just an idea.

Sturm Feuerklinge · Post by **Sturm Feuerklinge** » Tue May 22, 2001 7:03 pm

Ehm, Dear Damien!

I dont think ANY Mage should wear an Mytheril Armor, just of the fact, that Mytheril the MOST saving and Most heaviest and also MOST weightie Metal in all Fantasy World I know is.

cody · Post by **cody** » Tue May 22, 2001 8:22 pm

i think mages should hvae protective spells and not need amour and have attack spells in different elemtents and knights should have different elemtents on their amour that only mages can put on them like you kill a monster and get a normal metal sword and you give it to a mage friend and he enchants it with the fire element so it's a fire sword and there should be fire acide ice poision earth wind and soo on and mages should have magic amour that dissapers and special robes that cover you'r whole body

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Tue May 22, 2001 9:52 pm

Ummmm, Wanderer...
I respect all evil-doers but the point is that mages would not NEED
heavy armor if a skilled fighter isn't hurting them.
The only reason they need defence and attack is to ward off
huge enemies and PK's, am I correct?
If they dont wander off and slip into a rotworm cage they are fine.
Anyway, Mages are too strong and people are already whining about
it as if the skill limit already happened.
What I think some people are trying to say is that:
- Mages are usually frail people.
- They cannot hold up 200 pounds of metal.
- They have those oh-so-cool spells that us
lousy druids wish we had.

So, I think make mages a LITTLE less physical.
And you can be a warrior and a spellcaster, too, BTW.

Erdrick

P.S. Bror, when will items be able to be put on counters?

(Edited by Erdrick at 9:55 pm on May 22, 2001)

Dax · Post by **Dax** » Tue May 22, 2001 10:23 pm

I think this string has gotten off subject again.

Tinari · Post by **Tinari** » Wed May 23, 2001 2:54 am

Sturm, in nearly all RPGs I have played, Mithril is an ultra light, very protective material. Adamantite or any variation of that is the one which is extreamly heavy, but nearly indestructable.

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Wed May 23, 2001 12:41 pm

We always seem to wander off here and there

Questions for this Topic are:

Bror- Can you make it so items can be put on counters?
- Release date?
- Signposts? I need some way of getting customers.
- Keys? I would like a back door if there is keys.
- Quests? I need a little challenge.
- Any new equipment?

Erdrick

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Wed May 23, 2001 3:23 pm

Sturm, not right. Mithril is very light armor. But it is extremely rare and extremely expensive. Elves love mithril armor.
The heavy and high protective stuff you mean is Adamantium =)

Captain Kirk · Post by **Captain Kirk** » Thu May 24, 2001 5:50 am

Hallo

mages r toooo strong here ?? hmm i think u mean the dumb mages with hundreds of mana pots
they have low int but very high body points (str, con, .,...) and r only dangerous mages with thier mana pots
but they r good fighters and will kill a real mage very fast coz they max thier mag res first (with pots again) and have sometimes (better often) more mag reas than a real mage

and druids should have nature and maybe a few cleric/mage spells and move on woodground at fullspeed

can we get dragon scales (blue, red, black,..) ??? :-)

Bye
Read ya
MfG

Capt. Kirk

Sturm Feuerklinge · Post by **Sturm Feuerklinge** » Thu May 24, 2001 12:09 pm

I think, Ti nari, that is system variable....

@ rest

But already, Mages WOULDNT wear any armor!
Why are they sitting and study most of their Lifetime in towers to study the Magicial Formulas? To leave their Life on a thin Leather Skin or Metal??? No i dont think so.....

Magicians are fine, physically weak, mentally strong Persons without needings to the normal world.

Farlorn · Post by **Farlorn** » Thu May 24, 2001 3:30 pm

in fact, sometimes they need to eat something

But I agree with you. A mage shouldn't wear an armor that is as protective as a fighter's (or with mithril even more). Also he shouldn't have the same parry skill and use two shields, he's no fighter, right?

What there should be are protective spells that can temporarily substitute an armor and the targeting system. Perhaps some more effective attack-spells (now a mage almost only uses fields and icebolt).

But still I think: when a fighter stands next to a mage and attacks him, he should at least be able to hit him and to make some damage. Whatfor was a fighter good else?

Farlorn

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Sat May 26, 2001 7:07 pm

Uh, this topic is off-key.
Will everyone put their stuff under the right topic?
Oh, and Bror, read my stuff i wrote up above.
Im too lazy to copy it all down here.
I want an answer... soon.
OK?

Erdrick